Dave,

As far as export permits are concerned for an individual (or corp) here's the rundown:

- the DDTC (and all other participating organizations in the process) are your 'god' - the ITAR is your 'bible'

I've had to deal with an export permit on one occasion for my small business and it was a rather interesting experience. I didn't have a lawyer or anything for the process, just had to read through lots and lots of paperwork and ask a lot of questions. Entire process for my business from registration to my export permit being approved was 5 months. Most of the time was really due to me dragging my feet in an effort to make sure everything was correct. The DDTC response team is Excellent and the process in general is rather straightforward.

I can't speak for Amsat or with regards to any satellite exports because my permit was for a different application. If you had any general questions about my experiences i'm open to sharing them off the thread. My SCorp is actively registered with the DDTC.

Joe

Jim Jerzycke wrote:

Wikipedia has a good overview of what ITAR encompasses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITAR

Jim KQ6EA

--- On Sun, 8/2/09, Dave Marthouse dmart@pure.net wrote:

From: Dave Marthouse dmart@pure.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Question Re: Itar To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 3:42 PM

I have been reading the messages regarding the Indian heo satellite. What exactly are the Itar rules? Please fill me in.

Dave Marthouse N2AAM dmart@pure.net _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

The short version is, if you, a US person (in the broad definition), talk to or write or transfer information or hardware to non US nationals about things in a satellite system which helps them in anyway do satellite work, and I do mean in almost any way, this is a "deemed export" and requires an export license under the ITAR rules. To not get this export license is a violation of federal statutes with truly onerous possible penalties.

Many of us have been told by lawyers that we have paid entirely too much money to (out of necessity) that it is simply not possible to follow the rules to the letter if you are going to do this kind of business with non US nationals. What you need is a worked out plan that State Dep. puts a stamp of approval on as being "close enough" and this is called a TAA, technical assistance agreement.

I hope from this simplified version you can see just how it is utterly impossible as an individual to figure this out and to talk to your ham buddies outside the US about satellite matters without violating the rules. It is the single worst set of prohibition crap since banning of Alcohol. You have foreign nationals to the US who want technology (the Al Capones) and you have the rum runners here (the poor slobs who want to do business or conduct intellectual exchange) and we are all potential criminals. A big difference is the Al Capones are non US citizens and cannot be subjected to our silly laws and put in prison for income tax evasion. In fact, they just say and have said, screw you and gone and done their own thing, including build up of really good competitive satellite and space systems. The single worst feature of ITAR and the technical assistance agreement is the imposition of our laws on non US persons in order to work with us. Not many organizations or individuals are willing to say yes to this stupidity. For many of us here in the US, we have given up until somebody with some sanity changes things since many of us just have entirely too much at stake to risk.

AMSAT-NA is trying its best to fix our internal problems but I would not blame any non_US entity who said "Nuts" to working with us under these rules. They just have to be changed at a minimum for educational institutions and 501c3 like AMSAT-NA who have no interest whatsoever in selling things for a profit. Under no uncertain terms in my opinion, over the long term, these rules have damaged US interests much more severely than transfer of technology (inadvertent or intentional). But the problem I care most about fixing is not being able to have an informal talk about amateur satellite service matters with my overseas friends where NO ONE has bad intent.

Bob N4HY

Jim Jerzycke wrote:

Wikipedia has a good overview of what ITAR encompasses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITAR

Jim KQ6EA

--- On Sun, 8/2/09, Dave Marthouse dmart@pure.net wrote:

From: Dave Marthouse dmart@pure.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Question Re: Itar To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 3:42 PM

I have been reading the messages regarding the Indian heo satellite. What exactly are the Itar rules? Please fill me in.

Dave Marthouse N2AAM dmart@pure.net _______________________________________________