Illegal - for U.S. - Commercial Equipment
Wow .. sure have faced a bunch of hostility from "friends" here (grin).
No one has cited any specific US/FCC Code on any aspect of the matter - except for me, of course.
I have a conference call set up for Tuesday with the FCC's OET and another department. We all can agree that "pure amateur radios" are exempt from Part 97 certification procedures. But I will be documenting - with facts and direct legal citations - whether or not U.S. hams can use non-certified commercial gear (HTs that cover 138-170 and/or 400-470) on the amateur bands in the U.S.
I will not be reporting my findings here. I'll post it on my amateur site's blog. And have been approached by two publications (well, two print mags and one online mag) to write an article on this, which is in the works.
Clint Bradford, K6LCS http://www.clintbradford.com 909-241-7666
Hi Clint.
Wow .. sure have faced a bunch of hostility from "friends" here (grin).
Friends can disagree on different topics. As for hostility, I am only trying to get you to answer a question that you have been avoiding.
No one has cited any specific US/FCC Code on any aspect of the matter
- except for me, of course.
I guess you're overlooking my repeated citations from Part 97 - the two specifically related to HF/6m amplifiers requiring certification before marketing/sale in the US, and all of the technical requirements in Subpart D. Remember that my posts - and those of several others - came after your blanket statement regarding the use of the non-certified commercial radios by hams being illegal, without any offer of rules or laws to back that up.
I have a conference call set up for Tuesday with the FCC's OET and another department. We all can agree that "pure amateur radios" are exempt from Part 97 certification procedures. But I will be documenting - with facts and direct legal citations - whether or not U.S. hams can use non-certified commercial gear (HTs that cover 138-170 and/or 400-470) on the amateur bands in the U.S.
I will not be reporting my findings here. I'll post it on my amateur site's blog. And have been approached by two publications (well, two print mags and one online mag) to write an article on this, which is in the works.
Since you made the blanket statement that the use of the non- certified gear by hams is illegal, please let us know at least when you post that on your blog.
I saw your other post about some rules. Again, most of your citations avoid the matter of using the radios - they deal with the import and marketing of them. One that seems to cut to the heart of your argument related to the import of these radios is found in 2.1204(a)(7):
(a) Radio frequency devices may be imported only if one or more of these conditions are met:
... (skipping 1 through 6 - see them all at the link below)
(7) Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional radiators as defined in Part 15 of this chapter, are being imported for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr2.1204.htm
This appears to allow us to order up to 3 of these radios from overseas, as long as we are not going to sell them. This seems to be the way hams (and others) are getting these non-certified radios - and the way that California guy was busted by the FCC for selling those radios through his eBay page. I know that some have used this rule - loophole? - to get wide-band VHF/UHF receivers from non-US shops that do not have the FCC-mandated gaps in reception at 800 MHz for many years. One Toronto radio shop used to have a section on their web page specifically related to selling those non-FCC-certified receivers to those living in the US.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
actually the whole of http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr2.1204.htm seems like an excellent citation to consider and I would hope it is addressed in clint's findings. 47cfr2.1204(a)(3)(i) also seems interesting as it specificly addresses, "operation within one of the Commission's authorized radio services for which an operating license is required to be issued by the Commission".
47cfr2.1204(a)(7) would also seem to allow , "Three or fewer... being imported for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale." This however leaves out what may be an importaint clause, "radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional radiators as defined in part 15 of this chapter". I see nothing in this section referring to transmitters and intentional radiators and that could be a problem as most of us are communicators not just listeners on the ham bands. Again clarification of the rules here would be a good thing and I look forward to Clint's comments both commercially published and blogged when they are available.
Eric AF6EP
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net> wrote:
Hi Clint.
Wow .. sure have faced a bunch of hostility from "friends" here (grin).
Friends can disagree on different topics. As for hostility, I am only trying to get you to answer a question that you have been avoiding.
No one has cited any specific US/FCC Code on any aspect of the matter
- except for me, of course.
I guess you're overlooking my repeated citations from Part 97 - the two specifically related to HF/6m amplifiers requiring certification before marketing/sale in the US, and all of the technical requirements in Subpart D. Remember that my posts - and those of several others - came after your blanket statement regarding the use of the non-certified commercial radios by hams being illegal, without any offer of rules or laws to back that up.
I have a conference call set up for Tuesday with the FCC's OET and another department. We all can agree that "pure amateur radios" are exempt from Part 97 certification procedures. But I will be documenting - with facts and direct legal citations - whether or not U.S. hams can use non-certified commercial gear (HTs that cover 138-170 and/or 400-470) on the amateur bands in the U.S.
I will not be reporting my findings here. I'll post it on my amateur site's blog. And have been approached by two publications (well, two print mags and one online mag) to write an article on this, which is in the works.
Since you made the blanket statement that the use of the non- certified gear by hams is illegal, please let us know at least when you post that on your blog.
I saw your other post about some rules. Again, most of your citations avoid the matter of using the radios - they deal with the import and marketing of them. One that seems to cut to the heart of your argument related to the import of these radios is found in 2.1204(a)(7):
(a) Radio frequency devices may be imported only if one or more of these conditions are met:
... (skipping 1 through 6 - see them all at the link below)
(7) Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional radiators as defined in Part 15 of this chapter, are being imported for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr2.1204.htm
This appears to allow us to order up to 3 of these radios from overseas, as long as we are not going to sell them. This seems to be the way hams (and others) are getting these non-certified radios - and the way that California guy was busted by the FCC for selling those radios through his eBay page. I know that some have used this rule - loophole? - to get wide-band VHF/UHF receivers from non-US shops that do not have the FCC-mandated gaps in reception at 800 MHz for many years. One Toronto radio shop used to have a section on their web page specifically related to selling those non-FCC-certified receivers to those living in the US.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
It's also the way, until thy were recently approved, that numerous FT-817 users were getting the small THP HF linear amplifiers. Ordering them direct from THP.
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
This appears to allow us to order up to 3 of these radios from overseas, as long as we are not going to sell them. This seems to be the way hams (and others) are getting these non-certified radios -
"I have a conference call set up for Tuesday with the FCC's OET and another department..."
May I suggest that unless this radio runs full duplex and is proven to have significant sensitivity, there is probably a more appropriate forum than the AMSAT-BB...
One person's time/space consuming effort to ban foreign radio imports belongs on one of the Ham blogs, not here.
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Bradford" clintbrad4d@earthlink.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Illegal - for U.S. - Commercial Equipment
I have a conference call set up for Tuesday with the FCC's OET and another department. We all can agree that "pure amateur radios" are exempt from Part 97 certification procedures. But I will be documenting - with facts and direct legal citations - whether or not U.S. hams can use non-certified commercial gear (HTs that cover 138-170 and/or 400-470) on the amateur bands in the U.S.
I will not be reporting my findings here. I'll post it on my amateur site's blog. And have been approached by two publications (well, two print mags and one online mag) to write an article on this, which is in the works.
Clint Bradford, K6LCS http://www.clintbradford.com 909-241-7666
participants (5)
-
Clint Bradford -
Eric Fort -
Nigel G8IFF/W8IFF -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Roger Kolakowski