I welcome Rules Feedback, but this is the OPTIMUM way to make FD contacts via a satellite from an APRS radio with the least congestion. DO NOT USE MESSAGES. They will choke the channel with retries and no one will get through.
Set your path via the correct Satellite DIGI callsign and turn off proportional pathing and auto-decay. Set interval to 30 seconds.
Place your CATEGORY and SECTION in your STATUS text and set beacon time to once a minute. You don't need GRID since all APRS radios display that on receipt based on the position. SO here is your STATUS at the start:
CQFD 3AMDC (category and section)
Then every time you see someone else's info, QSL them by pressing the F key and SEL button 5 times and it will go directly to place the cursor at the end of your status text for you to add the first contact call:
CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR
And then when you see the next one, add the next call:
CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR,W3ADO
And so on. You can be acking up to 4 calls at a time. And your CQ and acks are all in a single packet.
You can only count the calls as 2-way if you also see your call in the QSL list of the other station.
When you get to 4 calls, then ERASE the first one, and add the next one at the end. and so on.
This method keeps the channel load low, automatically captures and records other stations in your STATION LIST and automatically sends your QSL's in your next automatic beacon. This lets you spend your time reviewing the lists, deciding who you have received QSL's from and entering the next calls in your STATUS text.
PRACTICE. Yes, pressing F key and SEL key 4 times will get you there since it will go to APRS, then STATUS TEXT, then SELECT the existing one, then SELECT it for editing, and then the cursor goes to the end so you can edit it.
You should WRITE down any packets that have your callsign QSLed in them, since once that station has entered 4 more calls, yours drops off his beacon and so your STATION list will no longer have a copy of your call, just his latest 4.
In my mind, this is a legal 2-way. You both exchanged grids, and category and section and QSLed and saw your call acknowledged.
Again, NEVER us APRS "MESSGE" format via a satellite. It is tremendously inefficient and clogs the channel with retries because the ACKs just dont get through. That's why we invented APRS in the first place. TO get away from the abysimal success of ACKS on a crowded channel.
Bob, WB4APR
Hi Bob!
I will be looking to work the packet digipeaters during Field Day, as that has been the easier way for me to get a completed satellite QSO - even when the ISS had its digipeater working. I like the basic premise you outline for a QSO, but it seems like something is missing to call it a QSO. It certainly seems to stop short of what we would consider a QSO if we are working SSB or CW, or for that matter a QSO on an FM satellite.
Assuming NO-84's digipeater stays on, I see some NO-84 passes late Saturday afternoon during Field Day. The FalconSat-3 passes come late in Saturday evening and early Sunday morning; I might not be out for those.
Based on the AMSAT Field Day rules:
https://www.amsat.org/field-day/
I am not sure your approach would meet the definition of a complete QSO. Station A makes a general CQ call, and station B would simply list your call as a QSL in the status text. Then how does station A acknowledge station B's QSL - adding B's call sign to the status text from A? Add in the time of having to edit the status text on the APRS-ready radios, and it gets messy fast.
When using messages, at least on the Kenwood radios, you can clear the retry counter once you know the other station received your message. That cuts down on the clutter. It is unfortunate that Kenwood and Yaesu don't provide an option to send messages without requesting an ACK from the other station, but that's the hand we have been dealt. Based on my experience over the past few Field Days on the 145.825 MHz digipeaters, very few ACKs ever get through anyway to clog the frequency. The 145.825 MHz frequency will probably have its assortment of unattended stations squawking away, and FalconSat-3 adds in the traffic from mailbox users.
Other than the requirement for ACKs built into the Kenwood and Yaesu APRS-ready radios, APRS messages are really the ideal way to go about completing a QSO. The APRS message format contains the two call signs, and the message text can carry the Field Day exchange, maybe a grid locator, or the "TNX" or "QSL" to wrap up the QSO. It comes closest to how the exchange is laid out in the AMSAT Field Day rules, and it would look more like a QSO for anyone monitoring the traffic on the frequency (or looking on pcsat.aprs.org in the case of NO-84 traffic picked up by APRS gateways).
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Place your CATEGORY and SECTION in your STATUS text and set beacon time to
once a minute. You don't need GRID since all APRS radios display that on receipt based on the position. SO here is your STATUS at the start:
CQFD 3AMDC (category and section)
Then every time you see someone else's info, QSL them by pressing the F key and SEL button 5 times and it will go directly to place the cursor at the end of your status text for you to add the first contact call:
CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR
And then when you see the next one, add the next call:
CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR,W3ADO
And so on. You can be acking up to 4 calls at a time. And your CQ and acks are all in a single packet.
You can only count the calls as 2-way if you also see your call in the QSL list of the other station.
When you get to 4 calls, then ERASE the first one, and add the next one at the end. and so on.
This method keeps the channel load low, automatically captures and records other stations in your STATION LIST and automatically sends your QSL's in your next automatic beacon. This lets you spend your time reviewing the lists, deciding who you have received QSL's from and entering the next calls in your STATUS text.
PRACTICE. Yes, pressing F key and SEL key 4 times will get you there since it will go to APRS, then STATUS TEXT, then SELECT the existing one, then SELECT it for editing, and then the cursor goes to the end so you can edit it.
You should WRITE down any packets that have your callsign QSLed in them, since once that station has entered 4 more calls, yours drops off his beacon and so your STATION list will no longer have a copy of your call, just his latest 4.
In my mind, this is a legal 2-way. You both exchanged grids, and category and section and QSLed and saw your call acknowledged.
Again, NEVER us APRS "MESSGE" format via a satellite. It is tremendously inefficient and clogs the channel with retries because the ACKs just dont get through. That's why we invented APRS in the first place. TO get away from the abysimal success of ACKS on a crowded channel.
Bob, WB4APR
Hi Patrick,
What I think you (and I) could do would be to not use the internal Kenwood APRS processing, but instead run the radio in KISS mode and use an external software client. APRSIS32, for example, lets one do messaging without requiring the ACK, and I have it conveniently connected to my Netbook via Bluetooth (so no cabling / USB Serial port issues).
But, I haven't tried it via satellite as yet... Should probably do that this week :). Not sure what would happen if the other station still had Acks enabled. At worst I think you'd see several retries, depending on who started the conversation. Haven't diagrammed that out.
Good luck on Field Day!
Greg KO6TH
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Hi Bob!
I will be looking to work the packet digipeaters during Field Day, as that has been the easier way for me to get a completed satellite QSO - even when the ISS had its digipeater working. I like the basic premise you outline for a QSO, but it seems like something is missing to call it a QSO. It certainly seems to stop short of what we would consider a QSO if we are working SSB or CW, or for that matter a QSO on an FM satellite.
Assuming NO-84's digipeater stays on, I see some NO-84 passes late Saturday afternoon during Field Day. The FalconSat-3 passes come late in Saturday evening and early Sunday morning; I might not be out for those.
Based on the AMSAT Field Day rules:
https://www.amsat.org/field-day/
I am not sure your approach would meet the definition of a complete QSO. Station A makes a general CQ call, and station B would simply list your call as a QSL in the status text. Then how does station A acknowledge station B's QSL - adding B's call sign to the status text from A? Add in the time of having to edit the status text on the APRS-ready radios, and it gets messy fast.
When using messages, at least on the Kenwood radios, you can clear the retry counter once you know the other station received your message. That cuts down on the clutter. It is unfortunate that Kenwood and Yaesu don't provide an option to send messages without requesting an ACK from the other station, but that's the hand we have been dealt. Based on my experience over the past few Field Days on the 145.825 MHz digipeaters, very few ACKs ever get through anyway to clog the frequency. The 145.825 MHz frequency will probably have its assortment of unattended stations squawking away, and FalconSat-3 adds in the traffic from mailbox users.
Other than the requirement for ACKs built into the Kenwood and Yaesu APRS-ready radios, APRS messages are really the ideal way to go about completing a QSO. The APRS message format contains the two call signs, and the message text can carry the Field Day exchange, maybe a grid locator, or the "TNX" or "QSL" to wrap up the QSO. It comes closest to how the exchange is laid out in the AMSAT Field Day rules, and it would look more like a QSO for anyone monitoring the traffic on the frequency (or looking on pcsat.aprs.org in the case of NO-84 traffic picked up by APRS gateways).
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Place your CATEGORY and SECTION in your STATUS text and set beacon time to
once a minute. You don't need GRID since all APRS radios display that on receipt based on the position. SO here is your STATUS at the start:
CQFD 3AMDC (category and section)
Then every time you see someone else's info, QSL them by pressing the F key and SEL button 5 times and it will go directly to place the cursor at the end of your status text for you to add the first contact call:
CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR
And then when you see the next one, add the next call:
CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR,W3ADO
And so on. You can be acking up to 4 calls at a time. And your CQ and acks are all in a single packet.
You can only count the calls as 2-way if you also see your call in the QSL list of the other station.
When you get to 4 calls, then ERASE the first one, and add the next one at the end. and so on.
This method keeps the channel load low, automatically captures and records other stations in your STATION LIST and automatically sends your QSL's in your next automatic beacon. This lets you spend your time reviewing the lists, deciding who you have received QSL's from and entering the next calls in your STATUS text.
PRACTICE. Yes, pressing F key and SEL key 4 times will get you there since it will go to APRS, then STATUS TEXT, then SELECT the existing one, then SELECT it for editing, and then the cursor goes to the end so you can edit it.
You should WRITE down any packets that have your callsign QSLed in them, since once that station has entered 4 more calls, yours drops off his beacon and so your STATION list will no longer have a copy of your call, just his latest 4.
In my mind, this is a legal 2-way. You both exchanged grids, and category and section and QSLed and saw your call acknowledged.
Again, NEVER us APRS "MESSGE" format via a satellite. It is tremendously inefficient and clogs the channel with retries because the ACKs just dont get through. That's why we invented APRS in the first place. TO get away from the abysimal success of ACKS on a crowded channel.
Bob, WB4APR
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I am not sure your approach would meet the definition of a complete QSO. Station A makes a general CQ call, and station>B would simply list your call as a QSL in the status text. Then how does station A acknowledge station B's QSL - adding B's call sign to the status text from A?
Yes, that's correct. The CONOPS that Bob WB4APR has outlined is sufficient to qualify as a QSO. Both parties have sent their call and exchange, received same from the other party, and have mutually acknowledged receipt. Both A and B are calling CQ in each beacon they transmit. They simply append the calls of the stations they are "answering" at the same time that they call CQ themselves.
The elegance of the concept is that all communications are beacons--with everyone calling CQ and answering other CQers at the same time--rather than point-to-point messages. It's a very efficient use of the limited resource. I like the idea in principle.
Add in the time of having to edit the status text on the >APRS-ready radios, and it gets messy fast.
This is my second biggest concern with the concept, especially for those of us who will not be at a computer terminal. I tend to agree that this may be cumbersome to implement on just an HT, but I'll try it out to see how it compares.
What I think is a more fatal flaw is that this just isn't the way we do things the other 363 days of the year. It isn't just a matter of "saying something different" on Field Day. This is a fundamentally different way to make QSOs than we do on packet satellites every other day but Field Day, which is not a recipe for success. It's a classic game theory problem. If I'm the only one following this protocol, I won't be making any QSOs.
Has anyone in recent history successfully made an APRS Field Day QSO in the manner that Bob describes?
73, Ryan AI6DO
participants (4)
-
Greg D -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Robert Bruninga -
Ryan Noguchi