Re: Considerate satellite operations behavior.
There's nothing AMSAT can do about lids. Lids are lids and they are everywhere on the hambands, not just satellite. I would suspect that the ones you're complaining about don't read this list, or talk to any other hams. We do all this writing, but the people who need to read it don't.
The madness on the birds is minor compared to what it is on HF at times.
(Not all the time)...
Doing a demo on a SSB/CW bird would be much nicer. It's much more civilized most of the time.
73, John K6YK
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 14:41:10 +0000 (UTC) wa4hfn@comcast.net writes:
This is and will be an ongoing problem until the powers to be at amsat do something about the mess on the FM birds . Tom you are preaching to the choir here because most of the offenders have no idea that this BBS is here. If the FCC stopped long enough to monitor this madness, they would likely have Amsat shut it down. BUT it is our job to police the ham bands.I guess that might mean we need to write down the bird,call sign ,date ,mode, and time and try to contact the offender and explain to the operator the trouble they are causing and offer them some advice on how to operate on the birds. Amsat wants users and needs members but this madness has to be corrected. I would not do a satallite demo any where and let people hear the mess that is ever present now and even worse on the weekends. Amsat needs to address this issue and offer a solution before the responsible operators givenup and quite dealing with the birds. Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Schuessler" tjschuessler@verizon.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:29:20 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Hi all,
I do not have the dollars yet to upgrade to an all mode radio to be able to do SSB/CW operations so FM is my lot for now. I love early mornings on AO-51 and later in the evening SO-50 and SO-67 when available because the roar of the crowd is significantly less. That being said, I like to give AO-51 or AO-27 a try once in a while in the afternoons to make a few Qs but find myself more often than not put off by the sheer mess found there. Only been doing this for 8 months with 260 QSOs on an irregular schedule so maybe I am out of line here, but I will throw out some observations anyway.
The for me 2210Z 20-Feb, 2011 pass was a typical example of what makes this part of the hobby hard to promote. I know that many of you are conscientious operators and do not try stomp on others but there are some out there who just don't seem to understand that there is a proper way to do this that will maximize the number of QSOs that actually get completed on a given pass.
I don't know how many times I heard someone call another station but when that second station answers, somebody else comes right on top and obliterates the poor guy with a totally unrelated call. I have had a station call me back only to have his exchange blown out of the water by somebody else who is apparently not listening to the fact that several seconds of an exchange has already occurred.
I am sure I was the cause of some interference this afternoon attempting to jump in after an exchange to get my call out there. I try however, if it appears that I with my 5W handheld and Arrow, are not making it through the current pileup, will wait 3 or 4 minutes until the pass has progressed some and try it again. Yes I know it is FM and I should not expect better but honestly I know it can be. Several times I heard a weak voice that sounded like a youth trying to get in but nobody paused enough to give the poor kid a shot. I made three Qs that pass but the kid got none and probably walked away thinking he had just wasted his time.
I will be at a hamfest in a few weeks and plan to do a few demonstrations of FM satellite work with my Arrow there and know that many folks will just wag their heads and decide to never try at all because of the noise and disorganization.
Another issue I hear is stations calling but not apparently hearing anything but they continue to call anyway and cause interference. A recent SO-50 pass in the evening had 6 or seven stations calling but only one or two QSOs actually took place as nobody seemed to be listening to the right frequencies. I would request that the person who keeps up with the Satellite status pages on the AMSAT web site please post the reality the SO-50 downlink is really about 5Khz lower than the published 436.795. If that were really the case, than I should always be starting a pass on my handeld at 436.805 but if I go there, I hear nothing much and always end the pass way down at 436.780 instead of .785. Since we always recommend that new operators look to AMSAT.org for their basic information, it needs to be kept current. If the information is wrong then people have to go through the trial and error method to find out the truth.
Hopefully these remarks will not offend but will serve to spur us all to improve the way we do things so others can too have a shot at making contacts.
Tom Schuessler 2713 Lake Gardens Drive Irving, Texas 75060 972-986-7456 214-403-1464 (Cell) n5hyp@arrl.net
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
____________________________________________________________ $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d62a99cef9ab4c9af8st01vuc
John,
Nice to see you on here.
There's nothing AMSAT can do about lids. Lids are lids and they are everywhere on the hambands, not just satellite. I would suspect that the ones you're complaining about don't read this list, or talk to any other hams. We do all this writing, but the people who need to read it don't.
You are 100% correct. There are lids on HF, lids on terrestrial repeaters, and some on satellites. Unfortunately, this is not a new thing.
Some suggest shutting down satellites when the passes become unruly. Why? Hams work through that sort of thing on HF when trying to work stations all the time, and especially when trying to work a DXpedition or stations in unusual places in contests. It isn't always easy, but we get through it. Shutting down satellites would not be a good way to fix the problem, and would probably cause more problems in the long run than that would "fix".
Another suggestion that has come up today is to have a net-control station on FM passes. That would tie up so much of the limited time we have on those passes with the housekeeping tasks of a net. Very few QSOs would ever be made. Especially on AO-27 and its 7-minute passes. This sounds like a nice idea in theory, but isn't so nice in practice. How would a net-control handle check-ins and allowing those stations to make calls, when the footprint is always moving? It would take a lot more work than a net-control station does on HF or a terrestrial repeater.
From what I hear when I work passes, these problems only seem to
appear on AO-51. AO-27, despite its 7-minute passes over the Northern Hemisphere, has large numbers of stations - but is not impossible
Doing a demo on a SSB/CW bird would be much nicer. It's much more civilized most of the time.
It is more civilized, but sometimes it is a lonely experience if nobody else is around to make a QSO. By the way, I missed you over the weekend when I was on from the Yuma AZ hamfest. ;-)
I've been working SSB for demonstrations at hamfests for the past 2+ years. It's fun, and - thanks to those who read my posts here on the -BB, or just tune the passbands of those satellites looking for activity - seems to make a great impression on the crowds. Last weekend in Yuma, I worked two FO-29 passes, on Friday and Saturday afternoons. Friday's pass had 5 QSOs with stations from all over the US, and Saturday's pass had just one QSO (thanks Kerry WC7V!). There have been some demonstrations where I am talking to myself - not a good thing when you're trying to make QSOs, but at least it shows off the concept.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
This the parking lot at rush hour problem. Try a pass at 2am and you won't have to fight. You may not find anyone to talk to even.
73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 11:47 AM, k6yk k6yk@juno.com wrote:
There's nothing AMSAT can do about lids. Lids are lids and they are everywhere on the hambands, not just satellite. I would suspect that the ones you're complaining about don't read this list, or talk to any other hams. We do all this writing, but the people who need to read it don't.
The madness on the birds is minor compared to what it is on HF at times.
(Not all the time)...
Doing a demo on a SSB/CW bird would be much nicer. It's much more civilized most of the time.
73, John K6YK
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 14:41:10 +0000 (UTC) wa4hfn@comcast.net writes:
This is and will be an ongoing problem until the powers to be at amsat do something about the mess on the FM birds . Tom you are preaching to the choir here because most of the offenders have no idea that this BBS is here. If the FCC stopped long enough to monitor this madness, they would likely have Amsat shut it down. BUT it is our job to police the ham bands.I guess that might mean we need to write down the bird,call sign ,date ,mode, and time and try to contact the offender and explain to the operator the trouble they are causing and offer them some advice on how to operate on the birds. Amsat wants users and needs members but this madness has to be corrected. I would not do a satallite demo any where and let people hear the mess that is ever present now and even worse on the weekends. Amsat needs to address this issue and offer a solution before the responsible operators givenup and quite dealing with the birds. Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Schuessler" tjschuessler@verizon.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:29:20 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Hi all,
I do not have the dollars yet to upgrade to an all mode radio to be able to do SSB/CW operations so FM is my lot for now. I love early mornings on AO-51 and later in the evening SO-50 and SO-67 when available because the roar of the crowd is significantly less. That being said, I like to give AO-51 or AO-27 a try once in a while in the afternoons to make a few Qs but find myself more often than not put off by the sheer mess found there. Only been doing this for 8 months with 260 QSOs on an irregular schedule so maybe I am out of line here, but I will throw out some observations anyway.
The for me 2210Z 20-Feb, 2011 pass was a typical example of what makes this part of the hobby hard to promote. I know that many of you are conscientious operators and do not try stomp on others but there are some out there who just don't seem to understand that there is a proper way to do this that will maximize the number of QSOs that actually get completed on a given pass.
I don't know how many times I heard someone call another station but when that second station answers, somebody else comes right on top and obliterates the poor guy with a totally unrelated call. I have had a station call me back only to have his exchange blown out of the water by somebody else who is apparently not listening to the fact that several seconds of an exchange has already occurred.
I am sure I was the cause of some interference this afternoon attempting to jump in after an exchange to get my call out there. I try however, if it appears that I with my 5W handheld and Arrow, are not making it through the current pileup, will wait 3 or 4 minutes until the pass has progressed some and try it again. Yes I know it is FM and I should not expect better but honestly I know it can be. Several times I heard a weak voice that sounded like a youth trying to get in but nobody paused enough to give the poor kid a shot. I made three Qs that pass but the kid got none and probably walked away thinking he had just wasted his time.
I will be at a hamfest in a few weeks and plan to do a few demonstrations of FM satellite work with my Arrow there and know that many folks will just wag their heads and decide to never try at all because of the noise and disorganization.
Another issue I hear is stations calling but not apparently hearing anything but they continue to call anyway and cause interference. A recent SO-50 pass in the evening had 6 or seven stations calling but only one or two QSOs actually took place as nobody seemed to be listening to the right frequencies. I would request that the person who keeps up with the Satellite status pages on the AMSAT web site please post the reality the SO-50 downlink is really about 5Khz lower than the published 436.795. If that were really the case, than I should always be starting a pass on my handeld at 436.805 but if I go there, I hear nothing much and always end the pass way down at 436.780 instead of .785. Since we always recommend that new operators look to AMSAT.org for their basic information, it needs to be kept current. If the information is wrong then people have to go through the trial and error method to find out the truth.
Hopefully these remarks will not offend but will serve to spur us all to improve the way we do things so others can too have a shot at making contacts.
Tom Schuessler 2713 Lake Gardens Drive Irving, Texas 75060 972-986-7456 214-403-1464 (Cell) n5hyp@arrl.net
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d62a99cef9ab4c9af8st01vuc _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (3)
-
k6yk -
Patrick Green -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)