Bruce and everyone,

I believe that every scenario you describe in this post can (and probably does) happen with virtually every other award available to any licensed amateur operator from any organization.

None of them choose to use a random drawing when issuing awards. Please help me to understand how that's fair.

I find irony in your comment that not every AMSAT member reads the AMSAT-BB. Have you notified all of the members who don't read the AMSAT-BB of the intention to use a random drawing? If not, then how is it fair to include an inarguably limited number of AMSAT members in the process of collecting the requisite applications to hold the drawing? Am I missing something?

From here, and given the scenarios you describe, the only fair way to issue numbered awards is to use the same process - whatever it is - that you have used for the first 490 - for the sake of consistency and historical accuracy.

Or, we could place all the numbers issued to date in a hat and draw for a new order so that everyone gets their awards issued in consistent fashion. And, moving forward, when applications have been reviewed and approved, a random drawing be used to assign the numbers to them.

It occurs to me that rules and requirements for awards can be and are changed from time to time. But that's not germain to this issue because it doesn't deal with rules or requirements but, rather, their application and evaluation. I believe strongly (in case you hadn't figured that out yet ... hihi) that consistency in application and evaluation is paramount to awards credibility, and represents the only truly fair approach.

I hope consistency prevails. Otherwise, my award takes on a different - and, to me, at least, a diminished - significance.

Thank you for listening.

73 to all,

Tim - N3TL

-------------- Original message from Bruce kk5do@amsat.org: --------------

We already know not all the members of AMSAT or the satellite community read the messages on the AMSAT-BB. You all are assuming that every member of AMSAT has a computer and email. Unfortunately there are some that do not. If someone can answer how to give the postal submissions the same possibility of receiving number 500 as the email entries, I would be happy to do it in that way. I only go to the post office regularly once a week on my day off (tues/wed).

Pulling the mail out of the box will create a random order. Did the postal person place the first one on the left or the right and did they do it the same way the next day or did they shove it between the ones there already? I can't use the post mark to determine which arrived first because one letter could have taken 2 days to reach me and another 5 days. I will have no way of knowing when the postal person put the letter in my box.

Now, I have the mail out of box and am walking to the car. One or two letters might slip out of my hand in the parking lot and placed either on top of the pile or the bottom not knowing where they actually were. Then on the trip home, someone might stop short in front of me and some of the mail on the seat slides on to the floor. There would be a random selection for the person that gets number 500 simply from the events of getting the mail to my house.

What if I send my daughter to pick up the mail and she comes home and there is a Priority Mail notice that has to be signed for. That person might have sent it in perfect time to be number 500 and now I have to go back to the post office to pick it up, unfortunately, I processed all the awards before going back and he now gets number 532.

As those sending email submissions are date and time stamped, where do I place someone's u.s. mail submission when I only go to the post office once a week? Does that person go to the end of the line because it did not get into my house until after all the emails were received or is it assumed to have been received first and go to the top of the pile?

The world is not perfect and I am just trying to make it fair for everyone.

73...bruce

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Let's not get all wound up on this, I think to most people the only important number is #1. Certainly to be picked as #500 is nothing to write home about ;>)

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:42 PM To: amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500

We already know not all the members of AMSAT or the satellite community read the messages on the AMSAT-BB. You all are assuming that every member of AMSAT has a computer and email. Unfortunately there are some that do not. If someone can answer how to give the postal submissions the same possibility of receiving number 500 as the email entries, I would be happy to do it in that way. I only go to the post office regularly once a week on my day off (tues/wed).

Pulling the mail out of the box will create a random order. Did the postal person place the first one on the left or the right and did they do it the same way the next day or did they shove it between the ones there already? I can't use the post mark to determine which arrived first because one letter could have taken 2 days to reach me and another 5 days. I will have no way of knowing when the postal person put the letter in my box.

Now, I have the mail out of box and am walking to the car. One or two letters might slip out of my hand in the parking lot and placed either on top of the pile or the bottom not knowing where they actually were. Then on the trip home, someone might stop short in front of me and some of the mail on the seat slides on to the floor. There would be a random selection for the person that gets number 500 simply from the events of getting the mail to my house.

What if I send my daughter to pick up the mail and she comes home and there is a Priority Mail notice that has to be signed for. That person might have sent it in perfect time to be number 500 and now I have to go back to the post office to pick it up, unfortunately, I processed all the awards before going back and he now gets number 532.

As those sending email submissions are date and time stamped, where do I place someone's u.s. mail submission when I only go to the post office once a week? Does that person go to the end of the line because it did not get into my house until after all the emails were received or is it assumed to have been received first and go to the top of the pile?

The world is not perfect and I am just trying to make it fair for everyone.

73...bruce

_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb