But as far as I'm concerned, it IS NOT the ultimate objective of a satellite operator. It is the BARE MINIMUM of satellite operation, and there is no way I'm going to be satisfied with that for more than one or two passes.
Fair opinion to have, you are entitled to it. However, stating it the way you do gives the impression (to me at least) that you can't see how anyone else would think any differently. When you say "it is NOT the ultimate objective of a satellite operator" I ask myself, 'How does he come to that conclusion?" It may not be YOUR ultimate objective, but I know several satellite operators who relish the idea of operating satellites while portable with minimum equipment. One took his annual work holiday to do nothing BUT that! It is analogous to saying that all HF operators dream of a high powered station with a tall tower and large antennas. However there are quite a number of people who prefer to pursue minimalist operations with tiny flea powered rigs and jury rigged antennas. Myself, I am somewhere in between. =^)
In other words, Gus... maybe it's not that you were previously misunderstood; rather, I would suggest that you didn't realize what you were actually saying. Your statement imposed 'your goals' on the rest of the sat community. Your statement is EXCLUSIVE... I am simply suggesting to widen your view and be INCLUSIVE.
To imply to the uneducated observer and potential future satellite operator, that standing in the rain is the pinnacle of hamsat ground station technology is (in my opinion) counter productive and, yes, stupid.On the contrary, I happen to think that the opposite is the ingrained preconception that uneducated observers might have. I would argue that the heretofore concept of a sat station is long boom yagi antennas, AZ-EL rotors and sophisticated, high powered equipment. Don't underestimate the power of a preconceived notion! It can linger. Because I think a lot of general hams probably still think that way. Moreover the general public and new hams likely have such a conception. I would further posit that the demonstration of simplicity actually implies that more complex equipment will beget more complex and interesting operations with the 'pinnacle' is implied to be elsewhere. In other words, "If I can do THIS with an HT, what can I do with more?" I mean, I got an HT to dip my toe in the water and now I have an FT-847 with a closet full of preamps, rotors, cable and boxed antennas waiting for good weather to dig and lay conduit.
Standing in the rain is the pinnacle of the technology? I don't think anyone implies that. (That would be... dare I say, "stupid".) I'm saying that one cannot define the pinnacle of what another finds fun and interesting. Yours might be to build the latest and greatest station... others might simply see the technology as a means to an end; the actual pursuit of the communication itself as the goal. - As for the rain... I know when to get out of it. I have a rather high ceiling in my living room and a tolerant wife.
But again, I reiterate, some people actually enjoy the FM birds and it IS a good place for new sat ops to get their feet wet. I'm simply asking for folks to consider that those that operate FM birds might be put off by having it implied that what they chose to do is something to be looked down upon. And for those that do not like the FM birds, I am suggesting that they are the best way to garner new members to AMSAT and therefore the financial and volunteer support needed for future, more technologically advanced sat projects. Not to mentioning the engineering expertise!!!
73,
Kevin N4UFO
------------------------------------------------------------------ "Control is the need of the fearful mind. Trust is the need of the courageous heart."
On 07/22/2014 04:09 PM, Kevin M wrote:
But as far as I'm concerned, it IS NOT the ultimate objective of a
satellite operator. It is the BARE MINIMUM of satellite operation, and there is no way I'm going to be satisfied with that for more than one or two passes.
Fair opinion to have, you are entitled to it. However, stating it the way you do gives the impression (to me at least) that you can't see how anyone else would think any differently. When you say "it is NOT the ultimate objective of a satellite operator" I ask myself, 'How does he come to that conclusion?"
I think it goes without saying -- or should -- that any opinion I express on this forum is my own, and not fact by decree. Despite this, I explicitly stated at least twice, that I was expressing my own personal opinion. I do indeed recognize that others disagree with me and take pleasure in minimalist operations, both on satellite and for that matter, on HF. I specifically said:
... to those who enjoy it, more power to you!
But personally, I prefer the shack-potato (I love that term) approach, probably because of how fondly I recall 6-8 hour passes, and the lengthy, antipodal ragchewing that could occur as a result.
As far as doing demos for the uneducated, broomstick waving is an excellent introduction, highlighting the equipment simplicity and low cost. I do personally think that the shack-potato option might also appeal to /some/ of the audience, so I hope the other end of the operations spectrum is mentioned at least briefly.
Hi Gus!
You would have been happy with how AMSAT presented satellite operating at the ARRL Centennial Convention that just concluded in Hartford over the weekend. We had a day-long training seminar last Thursday (17 July), and we touched on the extremes for stations capable of satellite operating. We actually talked about the home station first, complete with an IC-820 sitting in front of the presenters' podium along with a laptop running SatPC32. We also had a TS-790 in the room, copying the signals from the OSCAR I model that ARRL allowed us to use for the weekend. Later on, we talked about the minimimalist extreme for satellite operating, for both FM and SSB. Unfortunately, we do not have audio or video recordings of the seminar, as ARRL advised at the start of each presentation that Connecticut state law forbade the audio or video recording of the presentations.
Outside the convention center, I had demonstrations of both FM and SSB operating. The SSB demonstrations, using AO-7, went off very well. The first demonstration came at the end of the day-long training seminar on Thursday afternoon, and we were able to work stations from coast to (almost) coast. The second SSB demonstration, on Saturday also using AO-7, was working out to just as successful, until the satellite switched off at mid-pass. The FM demonstration we attempted on Saturday with SO-50 was not as successful. We could hear the satellite, but with only 5 watts we were not successful in hearing ourselves or making any QSOs. I have audio recordings from the two AO-7 passes, and plan on making slideshow videos with photos and other information from the convention weekend to go along with the satellite audio. These demonstrations illustrated the minimalist approach to working satellites, which also made the point that even working the (almost) 40-year- old AO-7 didn't require a huge expenditure for equipment (I used two FT-817s with my Elk log periodic antenna). Many hams still envision a station that could work the previous HEO satellites as the minimum required today, even with lots of presentations given by satellite operators and the YouTube and other videos showing that it doesn't take a lot to do this.
An unexpected treat happened on Saturday morning. I had planned on being outside the convention center for ISS passes, prepared to show off the ISS digipeater, and - if a voice was heard on 145.800 MHz - talk to an ISS crewmember. The first of the three workable passes from Hartford came a little while before the convention officially opened for the day at 0835 local/1235 UTC. The ISS was passing across the northern sky, with maximum elevation of 25 degrees. I heard only packet on 145.825 MHz, and was able to bounce a few packets through the ISS digipeater using a TH-D72A and Elk dual-band log periodic antenna.
The next pass, around 1010 local/1410 UTC, was the best of the passes for the morning - going across the southwestern sky with maximum elevation of
59 degrees. I had a radio listening to both 145.800 and 145.825 MHz. I heard nothing on 145.825 MHz, but thought I heard something on 145.800 MHz.
I started calling for NA1SS using my TH-D72A/Elk combination, and Reid Wiseman (the same astronaut who was on for Field Day last month) answered my call. My audience went crazy, and I was happy to make contact and have a nice 3- to 4- minute chat. I asked Reid if he might be on the microphone for the next pass over the eastern USA around 1200 local/1600 UTC. He said he would try, and we were outside for that as well.
Once we told people in the hall of the successful contact, the ARRL made sure there was a larger crowd outside for this pass. Several minutes before AOS, I was out there again, this time answering lots of questions from different people. After AOS, I started calling for NA1SS, but never heard anything on 145.800 MHz during the shallow (maximum elevation 6 degrees) pass.
I'm sure more will be written about the convention, especially the AMSAT effort there. Based on feedback from those attending the day-long seminar, and other feedback throughout the convention, AMSAT did a great job showing off this part of amateur radio. The Thursday seminar and Friday afternoon forums (one led by AMSAT President Barry Baines WD4ASW discussing the current state of AMSAT, followed by a "how-to" session for working the FM satellites led by Peter Portanova W2JV) were full, and all 3 sessions had audiences that were engaged and asking questions.
Now back to the different discussions about the extremes for stations to work satellites, and FM vs. digital (and anything else) via satellite, already in progress... :-)
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
As far as doing demos for the uneducated, broomstick waving is an excellent introduction, highlighting the equipment simplicity and low cost. I do personally think that the shack-potato option might also appeal to /some/ of the audience, so I hope the other end of the operations spectrum is mentioned at least briefly.
On 07/22/2014 07:11 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
You would have been happy with how AMSAT presented satellite operating at the ARRL Centennial Convention that just concluded in Hartford over the weekend.
Sounds like a great party! I know it wouldn't have been easy to set up, and for that reason (alas) every demo can't be as comprehensive. I do believe that the most simplistic demo could at least mention the wider spectrum of operating possibilities and leave the audience with that Tip-of-the-Iceberg feeling.
Sorry you couldn't take video. Would have liked to have seen that!
participants (3)
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Gus -
Kevin M -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)