Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the failed Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change, but I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after seeing the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the 145.825 MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through, but not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about this about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor form by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a 5-minute interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in "receive ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For Europe, and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency and some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations at the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year ago, let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
Hi Patrick,
Thanks for your post and feedback. It is much appreciated.
I am too looking once in a while for an ISS contact. On the other hand, I have realized that many stations are actually on the keyboard and they answer, but I don't decode it on my system and they might not either. I see it later on the web. In addition, folks are not that quick in response also and trying to type an answer and get a packet out especially on a less elaborate station is not always easy. Yes, I am using UISS with pre-recorded answers and a quick mouse click but I still need a few tries to sometimes see or hear my own packet repeated. So, bottom line for me, be happy for the few contacts and help others along :-)
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 6:50 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the failed Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change, but I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after seeing the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the 145.825 MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through, but not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about this about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor form by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a 5-minute interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in "receive ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For Europe, and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency and some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations at the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year ago, let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Stefan!
I also look online after the passes, hoping to see gateways picking up the activity. Looks like some of the gateways either need to be turned on again, or switched back to 145.825 MHz.
Seems like there are a lot of stations using UISS, which makes the use of APRS messages an easy thing. Several of the calls I saw on the radio today were the same calls that never responded to APRS messages in the past. More often than not, if the station is using an HT, or maybe a mobile radio (as identified on the screen when I see details on that station on my screen), those are the stations I have the best chance at making a QSO.
Maybe some of these stations won't stay on 145.825 MHz, after the novelty of the ISS digipeater coming back to 2m wears off. If there are operators at those keyboards, hopefully they will answer the APRS messages they receive from me and others, and try to contact stations they see/hear on these passes.
Hopefully we can make a QSO over the ISS digipeater on 2m soon! 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 AM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Patrick,
Thanks for your post and feedback. It is much appreciated.
I am too looking once in a while for an ISS contact. On the other hand, I have realized that many stations are actually on the keyboard and they answer, but I don't decode it on my system and they might not either. I see it later on the web. In addition, folks are not that quick in response also and trying to type an answer and get a packet out especially on a less elaborate station is not always easy. Yes, I am using UISS with pre-recorded answers and a quick mouse click but I still need a few tries to sometimes see or hear my own packet repeated. So, bottom line for me, be happy for the few contacts and help others along :-)
*"Hopefully we can make a QSO over the ISS digipeater on 2m soon! 73!"* You got It :-) Thanks a lot and Happy Easter!
Stefan
On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Stefan!
I also look online after the passes, hoping to see gateways picking up the activity. Looks like some of the gateways either need to be turned on again, or switched back to 145.825 MHz.
Seems like there are a lot of stations using UISS, which makes the use of APRS messages an easy thing. Several of the calls I saw on the radio today were the same calls that never responded to APRS messages in the past. More often than not, if the station is using an HT, or maybe a mobile radio (as identified on the screen when I see details on that station on my screen), those are the stations I have the best chance at making a QSO.
Maybe some of these stations won't stay on 145.825 MHz, after the novelty of the ISS digipeater coming back to 2m wears off. If there are operators at those keyboards, hopefully they will answer the APRS messages they receive from me and others, and try to contact stations they see/hear on these passes.
Hopefully we can make a QSO over the ISS digipeater on 2m soon! 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 AM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Patrick,
Thanks for your post and feedback. It is much appreciated.
I am too looking once in a while for an ISS contact. On the other hand,
I
have realized that many stations are actually on the keyboard and they answer, but I don't decode it on my system and they might not either. I
see
it later on the web. In addition, folks are not that quick in response
also
and trying to type an answer and get a packet out especially on a less elaborate station is not always easy. Yes, I am using UISS with pre-recorded answers and a quick mouse click but I still need a few tries to sometimes see or hear my own packet repeated. So, bottom line for me,
be
happy for the few contacts and help others along :-)
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Stefan mentioned ...
...many stations are actually on the keyboard and they answer, but I don't decode it on my system and they might not either ... using UISS ...
I'm also using UISS with the fields pre-loaded for quick, standardized answers given the short time of the pass. While it is quite convenient to load up some software for soundmodem and UISS vs. all the hardware cable connections to a standalone TNC - the shortcoming with the software approach is that you'll only decode and display packets that are 100% correct, with no single bit error, checksum matches perfectly. So our stations are often copying a good-sounding downlink signal but it just takes a single bit error and we're not seeing the other station's reply on the screen ... or they're missing our reply.
For this reason I'm thinking of going back to my MFJ-1270C TNC when I have some time to wire it back up. In the TNC you can issue the PASSALL = ON command and you'll see all packets, even the incomplete or bad bit messages. In the past I saw enough of most messages that I could understand what was received.
No unattended beacons at this shack - but the preloaded messages I have within UISS are usually the same on many passes.
Thanks JoAnne,
Point well made! I am still trying to find out if this is possible with sound modem or direwolf. At this point I might also go back to my trusted TNC :-)
Stefan
On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:42 PM, JoAnne K9JKM [email protected] wrote:
Stefan mentioned ...
...many stations are actually on the keyboard and they answer, but I don't decode it on my system and they might not either ... using UISS ...
I'm also using UISS with the fields pre-loaded for quick, standardized answers given the short time of the pass. While it is quite convenient to load up some software for soundmodem and UISS vs. all the hardware cable connections to a standalone TNC - the shortcoming with the software approach is that you'll only decode and display packets that are 100% correct, with no single bit error, checksum matches perfectly. So our stations are often copying a good-sounding downlink signal but it just takes a single bit error and we're not seeing the other station's reply on the screen ... or they're missing our reply.
For this reason I'm thinking of going back to my MFJ-1270C TNC when I have some time to wire it back up. In the TNC you can issue the PASSALL = ON command and you'll see all packets, even the incomplete or bad bit messages. In the past I saw enough of most messages that I could understand what was received.
No unattended beacons at this shack - but the preloaded messages I have within UISS are usually the same on many passes.
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
JoAnne,
What software would you run with your hardware TNC ? Wouldn't UISS still need agw or direwolf, etc?
Thank you, Kevin N2JPE
Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com
JoAnne,
You might take a look at the Direwolf software:
https://github.com/wb2osz/direwolf
It has a PASSALL command which works much like the hardware TNC version. I have lightly tested it, and it works fine with UISS. It also can give a lot of information about the RX signal. It is a bit more work to set up compared with Soundmodem because it uses a configuration file, but you also get more fine tuning.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of <JoAnne K9JKM <Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 21:43 PM <To: [email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz <(long) < <Stefan mentioned ... < < > ...many stations are actually on the keyboard and they < > answer, but I don't decode it on my system and they might not < > either ... using UISS ... < <I'm also using UISS with the fields pre-loaded for quick, standardized <answers given the short time of the pass. While it is quite convenient <to load up some software for soundmodem and UISS vs. all the hardware <cable connections to a standalone TNC - the shortcoming with the <software approach is that you'll only decode and display packets that <are 100% correct, with no single bit error, checksum matches perfectly. <So our stations are often copying a good-sounding downlink signal but it <just takes a single bit error and we're not seeing the other station's <reply on the screen ... or they're missing our reply. < <For this reason I'm thinking of going back to my MFJ-1270C TNC when I <have some time to wire it back up. In the TNC you can issue the PASSALL <= ON command and you'll see all packets, even the incomplete or bad bit <messages. In the past I saw enough of most messages that I could <understand what was received. < <No unattended beacons at this shack - but the preloaded messages I have <within UISS are usually the same on many passes. < <-- <73 de JoAnne K9JKM <[email protected] < <_______________________________________________ <Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT- <NA. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite <program! <Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Kevin,
What software would you run with your hardware TNC ? Wouldn't UISS still need agw or direwolf, etc?
I used the terminal emulator program called MFJCOM that MFJ used to sell with their TNC back in the 1990's. It came on 5.25 disk but I have a copy of it on an old computer hard drive ... good thing I'm an electronics hoarder. I still haven't tossed out PC's from the 1990's :-)
The window MFJCOM software runs in is the command line interface. It pretty much looks like the window you get with the windows 'Run' command. Plain ascii, not much help for commands, no mouse, etc. When MFJCOM comes up in the usual TNC 'cmd:' mode you can send the setup and operating commands to the TNC. Once setup in the cmd; mode you issue a 'CONVERS' command to enter the UI mode. A ctrl-c gets you out of CONVERS and back to cmd;
My article in the AMSAT Journal has a table showing the top dozen or so TNC commands useful for configuring a hardware TNC for operation with ARISS packet.
I believe there would be lots of terminal emulator programs out there that get the job done. Running in this basic mode I'm talking directly to the TNC hardware. What the TNC receives is what I'd see directly in the terminal emulator window.
I still have the hardware TNC project on my to-do list. Before I go so far as trying to bring up a 20 year old PC box I think I'll take Alan's advice and try Direwolf. Alan mentioned that Direwolf has some of the commands I've been missing via UISS - like PASSALL and ways to display some of the additional protocol.
Now that I think about it, I have an old laptop with dual-boot linux and windows on it which also has a 'real' RS-232 port on it - I could see how linux based terminal emulators work too. Heh, the to-do list just got longer over here :-)
I have a number of communication programs that can talk to serial ports, TCP, etc. As far as I know they were all free. I have an olde DSP2232 TNC that I used in the 'old' days when I was the South East area Satgate. It has full duplex packet capabilities among others. Been using it lately for QRP (5 watts) RTTY. The programs I have are:
HyperterminalPrivatge, K95g (Kermit), Putty, Realterm, TeraTerm, and Termite V3.2. Each has their own advantages. I use TeraTerm the most. I like that it can have cut and paste data inserted i n the window. I believe it also allows you to send a file as well.
Most of them are a matter of taste. K95 has a lot of built-ins but a bit harder to use.
Reid, W4UPD
On 4/16/2017 9:46 AM, JoAnne K9JKM wrote:
Hi Kevin,
What software would you run with your hardware TNC ? Wouldn't UISS still need agw or direwolf, etc?
I used the terminal emulator program called MFJCOM that MFJ used to sell with their TNC back in the 1990's. It came on 5.25 disk but I have a copy of it on an old computer hard drive ... good thing I'm an electronics hoarder. I still haven't tossed out PC's from the 1990's :-)
The window MFJCOM software runs in is the command line interface. It pretty much looks like the window you get with the windows 'Run' command. Plain ascii, not much help for commands, no mouse, etc. When MFJCOM comes up in the usual TNC 'cmd:' mode you can send the setup and operating commands to the TNC. Once setup in the cmd; mode you issue a 'CONVERS' command to enter the UI mode. A ctrl-c gets you out of CONVERS and back to cmd;
My article in the AMSAT Journal has a table showing the top dozen or so TNC commands useful for configuring a hardware TNC for operation with ARISS packet.
I believe there would be lots of terminal emulator programs out there that get the job done. Running in this basic mode I'm talking directly to the TNC hardware. What the TNC receives is what I'd see directly in the terminal emulator window.
I still have the hardware TNC project on my to-do list. Before I go so far as trying to bring up a 20 year old PC box I think I'll take Alan's advice and try Direwolf. Alan mentioned that Direwolf has some of the commands I've been missing via UISS - like PASSALL and ways to display some of the additional protocol.
Now that I think about it, I have an old laptop with dual-boot linux and windows on it which also has a 'real' RS-232 port on it - I could see how linux based terminal emulators work too. Heh, the to-do list just got longer over here :-)
Regarding hardware modems working better than software modems, when I first got into ISS APRS I read the thread below where someone had the opposite experience. Maybe they hadn't enabled PASSALL.
https://www.issfanclub.com/node/37892
I know if I record the audio from my Kenwood TH-D72 and play it back through soundmodem it decodes packets that the radio doesn't decode.
I believe this can be seen in one of my videos about ISS APRS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhv7oz_El80
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 9:46 AM, JoAnne K9JKM [email protected] wrote:
Hi Kevin,
What software would you run with your hardware TNC ? Wouldn't UISS still need agw or direwolf, etc?
I used the terminal emulator program called MFJCOM that MFJ used to sell with their TNC back in the 1990's. It came on 5.25 disk but I have a copy of it on an old computer hard drive ... good thing I'm an electronics hoarder. I still haven't tossed out PC's from the 1990's :-)
The window MFJCOM software runs in is the command line interface. It pretty much looks like the window you get with the windows 'Run' command. Plain ascii, not much help for commands, no mouse, etc. When MFJCOM comes up in the usual TNC 'cmd:' mode you can send the setup and operating commands to the TNC. Once setup in the cmd; mode you issue a 'CONVERS' command to enter the UI mode. A ctrl-c gets you out of CONVERS and back to cmd;
My article in the AMSAT Journal has a table showing the top dozen or so TNC commands useful for configuring a hardware TNC for operation with ARISS packet.
I believe there would be lots of terminal emulator programs out there that get the job done. Running in this basic mode I'm talking directly to the TNC hardware. What the TNC receives is what I'd see directly in the terminal emulator window.
I still have the hardware TNC project on my to-do list. Before I go so far as trying to bring up a 20 year old PC box I think I'll take Alan's advice and try Direwolf. Alan mentioned that Direwolf has some of the commands I've been missing via UISS - like PASSALL and ways to display some of the additional protocol.
Now that I think about it, I have an old laptop with dual-boot linux and windows on it which also has a 'real' RS-232 port on it - I could see how linux based terminal emulators work too. Heh, the to-do list just got longer over here :-)
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected] _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or for LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the failed Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change, but I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after seeing the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the 145.825 MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through, but not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about this about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor form by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a 5-minute interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in "receive ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For Europe, and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency and some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations at the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year ago, let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if you can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of QRM if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected] wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or for LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the failed Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change, but I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after seeing the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the 145.825 MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through, but not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about this about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor form by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a 5-minute interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in "receive ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For Europe, and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency and some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations at the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year ago, let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based on your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS since the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman [email protected] wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if you can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of QRM if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected] wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or for LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Stefan,
I think you're taking Gabe's comment too literal. The point he's trying to make is that many stations just keep on transmitting when they can't hear anything.
We can use that amateur radio on ISS as an experiment as an excuse but that doesn't really fly. APRS is beyond an experiment as it is a well established form of using APRS via satellite, nothing new here.
Furthermore, what is the point of trying repeatedly to transmit if you can't decode? It is the golden rule for a reason and it applies everywhere, satellite or terrestrial. If you can't hear it you can't work it, bottom line. Until you can decode packets you're just creating QRM.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based on your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS since the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman [email protected] wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if you can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of QRM if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected] wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or for LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks Mike,
Again, you don't seem to get the point. Based on your setup, TNC, software etc you will NOT be able to decode every single packet and based on your setup and the ISS position the ISS digipeater will not re-transmit. It's the nature of the beast. No, you are not creating QRM if the ISS does not repeat your packet. Listen to the path of the ISS and you will hear that 50% of the time the radio is silent. It does not TX since there are no valid packets. Where is the QRM? There is none other than in you local environment where nobody cares. Don't discourage those that are trying to make it work. If you want a case, point out the stations and callsigns that create QRM and are not listenting/responding!
Just check out the last pass over the US. You will find 10 stations, that's a station a minute with room to spare. This is NOT SO-50!
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Stefan,
I think you're taking Gabe's comment too literal. The point he's trying to make is that many stations just keep on transmitting when they can't hear anything.
We can use that amateur radio on ISS as an experiment as an excuse but that doesn't really fly. APRS is beyond an experiment as it is a well established form of using APRS via satellite, nothing new here.
Furthermore, what is the point of trying repeatedly to transmit if you can't decode? It is the golden rule for a reason and it applies everywhere, satellite or terrestrial. If you can't hear it you can't work it, bottom line. Until you can decode packets you're just creating QRM.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based
on
your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS
since
the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome
that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman <
wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if
you
can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of
QRM
if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected]
wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or
for
LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for
example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Patrick
STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from
437.550
MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's
failure
in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different
antenna
for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz
frequency,
almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to
work
other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group
of
memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts.
Some
fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the
unattended
stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater
switched
to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on
the
frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time
this
afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent
to
them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass,
and
even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7,
no
matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their
beacons
from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to
transmit
if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute
to
the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having
the
ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my
road
trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to
make
QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Stefan,
Yes, you won't decode 100% and none of has said that you should. I think you have a misunderstanding of what is happening at the receiver on ISS.
If we are all transmitting at it and it can't decode any of us then the transmitter is silent. If the setup is anything like most then it won't transmit until it is done receiving as a matter of fact. The QRM we are talking about is at the ISS, not local. For instance, if I'm not decoding anything and keep transmitting while you are trying to get in then we accomplish nothing. Our signals are mixing or tail ending so the TNC ignores us both. What exactly does that accomplish? Using transmitted packets as a gauge for who is trying to get in makes no sense. If we all keep trying to get in at the same time then zero packets will be transmitted. Using your logic one would assume nobody had tried to work the ISS when in actuality everyone did.
Also, local QRM is exactly that, local. You may not have a problem with other stations being decoded via terrestrial but that's not the case here in DM14. I have many active ops on ISS around here and have received them without digipeating. I do not blame them for this, it is just part of how it works.
Encouraging anyone trying to transmit when they can't hear ANYTHING is just flat out bad advice. I'll do my best to discourage this every time. I would love to hear how you think it is beneficial for a station to transmit when they can't hear what is going on.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 3:18 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Thanks Mike,
Again, you don't seem to get the point. Based on your setup, TNC, software etc you will NOT be able to decode every single packet and based on your setup and the ISS position the ISS digipeater will not re-transmit. It's the nature of the beast. No, you are not creating QRM if the ISS does not repeat your packet. Listen to the path of the ISS and you will hear that 50% of the time the radio is silent. It does not TX since there are no valid packets. Where is the QRM? There is none other than in you local environment where nobody cares. Don't discourage those that are trying to make it work. If you want a case, point out the stations and callsigns that create QRM and are not listenting/responding!
Just check out the last pass over the US. You will find 10 stations, that's a station a minute with room to spare. This is NOT SO-50!
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote: Stefan,
I think you're taking Gabe's comment too literal. The point he's trying to make is that many stations just keep on transmitting when they can't hear anything.
We can use that amateur radio on ISS as an experiment as an excuse but that doesn't really fly. APRS is beyond an experiment as it is a well established form of using APRS via satellite, nothing new here.
Furthermore, what is the point of trying repeatedly to transmit if you can't decode? It is the golden rule for a reason and it applies everywhere, satellite or terrestrial. If you can't hear it you can't work it, bottom line. Until you can decode packets you're just creating QRM.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based on your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS since the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman [email protected] wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if you can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of QRM if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected] wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or for LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from 437.550 MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's failure in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different antenna for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz frequency, almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to work other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group of memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts. Some fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the unattended stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater switched to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on the frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time this afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent to them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass, and even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7, no matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their beacons from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to transmit if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute to the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having the ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my road trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to make QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Stefan, I think you are the one missing the point. QRM on almost any satellite path is on the uplink, not the downlink. This is particularly true for modes that allow only one station to transmit at a time (specifically including packet). If more than one person transmits on the uplink wherein their transmissions overlap, neither is properly decoded by the ISS, so nothing is transmitted by the ISS. If this continues for the entire pass, there will never be any downlink transmissions. By your definition, there was no QRM (because you could not hear it - but the ISS did), and you encourage more stations to transmit - thereby making the problem even worse.
Jim Walls K6CCC
On 4/16/2017 15:18, Stefan Wagener wrote:
Thanks Mike,
Again, you don't seem to get the point. Based on your setup, TNC, software etc you will NOT be able to decode every single packet and based on your setup and the ISS position the ISS digipeater will not re-transmit. It's the nature of the beast. No, you are not creating QRM if the ISS does not repeat your packet. Listen to the path of the ISS and you will hear that 50% of the time the radio is silent. It does not TX since there are no valid packets. Where is the QRM? There is none other than in you local environment where nobody cares. Don't discourage those that are trying to make it work. If you want a case, point out the stations and callsigns that create QRM and are not listenting/responding!
Just check out the last pass over the US. You will find 10 stations, that's a station a minute with room to spare. This is NOT SO-50!
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Stefan,
I think you're taking Gabe's comment too literal. The point he's trying to make is that many stations just keep on transmitting when they can't hear anything.
We can use that amateur radio on ISS as an experiment as an excuse but that doesn't really fly. APRS is beyond an experiment as it is a well established form of using APRS via satellite, nothing new here.
Furthermore, what is the point of trying repeatedly to transmit if you can't decode? It is the golden rule for a reason and it applies everywhere, satellite or terrestrial. If you can't hear it you can't work it, bottom line. Until you can decode packets you're just creating QRM.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based
on
your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS
since
the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome
that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman <
wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if
you
can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of
QRM
if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected]
wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or
for
LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for
example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Patrick
STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from
437.550
MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's
failure
in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different
antenna
for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz
frequency,
almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to
work
other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group
of
memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts.
Some
fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the
unattended
stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater
switched
to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on
the
frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time
this
afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent
to
them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass,
and
even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7,
no
matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their
beacons
from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to
transmit
if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute
to
the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having
the
ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my
road
trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to
make
QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Simply, replace the ISS TNC with a human ear on an astronaut. If 5 stations are calling him on one frequency and he/she cannot make out a callsign and says, “Again?” and this continues over and over, the QRM was on the uplink to the human ear by all 5 stations transmitting. You can’t say it wasn’t QRM if he/she failed to respond to any callsign during a voice past.
My 2 cents, worth about a penny.
Greg N3MVF On Apr 16, 2017, at 7:30 PM, Jim Walls [email protected] wrote:
Stefan, I think you are the one missing the point. QRM on almost any satellite path is on the uplink, not the downlink. This is particularly true for modes that allow only one station to transmit at a time (specifically including packet). If more than one person transmits on the uplink wherein their transmissions overlap, neither is properly decoded by the ISS, so nothing is transmitted by the ISS. If this continues for the entire pass, there will never be any downlink transmissions. By your definition, there was no QRM (because you could not hear it - but the ISS did), and you encourage more stations to transmit - thereby making the problem even worse.
Jim Walls K6CCC
On 4/16/2017 15:18, Stefan Wagener wrote:
Thanks Mike,
Again, you don't seem to get the point. Based on your setup, TNC, software etc you will NOT be able to decode every single packet and based on your setup and the ISS position the ISS digipeater will not re-transmit. It's the nature of the beast. No, you are not creating QRM if the ISS does not repeat your packet. Listen to the path of the ISS and you will hear that 50% of the time the radio is silent. It does not TX since there are no valid packets. Where is the QRM? There is none other than in you local environment where nobody cares. Don't discourage those that are trying to make it work. If you want a case, point out the stations and callsigns that create QRM and are not listenting/responding!
Just check out the last pass over the US. You will find 10 stations, that's a station a minute with room to spare. This is NOT SO-50!
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Stefan,
I think you're taking Gabe's comment too literal. The point he's trying to make is that many stations just keep on transmitting when they can't hear anything.
We can use that amateur radio on ISS as an experiment as an excuse but that doesn't really fly. APRS is beyond an experiment as it is a well established form of using APRS via satellite, nothing new here.
Furthermore, what is the point of trying repeatedly to transmit if you can't decode? It is the golden rule for a reason and it applies everywhere, satellite or terrestrial. If you can't hear it you can't work it, bottom line. Until you can decode packets you're just creating QRM.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based
on
your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS
since
the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome
that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman <
wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if
you
can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of
QRM
if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected]
wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or
for
LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for
example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Patrick
STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from
437.550
MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's
failure
in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different
antenna
for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz
frequency,
almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to
work
other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group
of
memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts.
Some
fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating, were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the
unattended
stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater
switched
to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around 1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on
the
frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time
this
afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent
to
them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass,
and
even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7,
no
matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their
beacons
from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to
transmit
if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute
to
the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having
the
ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my
road
trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to
make
QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Thanks Jim,
I actually don't miss the point. The "Common Problem" is not the lack of activity on the ISS (colliding packets), the problem is the unattended digipeating stations therefor by definition, the downlink signal everyone is hearing. Otherwise you wouldn't know that they are there:-) As I said before lets point them out and deal with it.
I just have a hard time with someone claiming universally the 'golden rule" on the ISS (and again and again I am not talking about the SO-50's of the world). I encourage and will encourage folks to experiment with the ISS, trying to to get their packets through even if they don't get their own packets decoded on their side. This is what amateur radio is all about, trying to discover new ways .... Throwing the "book" at folks is not me.
Rest my case, Stefan VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Jim Walls [email protected] wrote:
Stefan, I think you are the one missing the point. QRM on almost any satellite path is on the uplink, not the downlink. This is particularly true for modes that allow only one station to transmit at a time (specifically including packet). If more than one person transmits on the uplink wherein their transmissions overlap, neither is properly decoded by the ISS, so nothing is transmitted by the ISS. If this continues for the entire pass, there will never be any downlink transmissions. By your definition, there was no QRM (because you could not hear it - but the ISS did), and you encourage more stations to transmit - thereby making the problem even worse.
Jim Walls K6CCC
On 4/16/2017 15:18, Stefan Wagener wrote:
Thanks Mike,
Again, you don't seem to get the point. Based on your setup, TNC, software etc you will NOT be able to decode every single packet and based on your setup and the ISS position the ISS digipeater will not re-transmit. It's the nature of the beast. No, you are not creating QRM if the ISS does not repeat your packet. Listen to the path of the ISS and you will hear that 50% of the time the radio is silent. It does not TX since there are no valid packets. Where is the QRM? There is none other than in you local environment where nobody cares. Don't discourage those that are trying to make it work. If you want a case, point out the stations and callsigns that create QRM and are not listenting/responding!
Just check out the last pass over the US. You will find 10 stations, that's a station a minute with room to spare. This is NOT SO-50!
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Stefan,
I think you're taking Gabe's comment too literal. The point he's trying to make is that many stations just keep on transmitting when they can't hear anything.
We can use that amateur radio on ISS as an experiment as an excuse but that doesn't really fly. APRS is beyond an experiment as it is a well established form of using APRS via satellite, nothing new here.
Furthermore, what is the point of trying repeatedly to transmit if you can't decode? It is the golden rule for a reason and it applies everywhere, satellite or terrestrial. If you can't hear it you can't work it, bottom line. Until you can decode packets you're just creating QRM.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 16, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Hi Gabe,
With all respect I very much disagree. The amateur radio equipment on the ISS is an experiment! Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Based
on
your location, equipment and ISS position you will* NOT* decode every packet, and yes that includes your own packets. So folks will be trying again and that's okay. *They don't become a source of QRM* on the ISS
since
the ISS will only re-transmit if its a good packet. They are exercising their license privileges to work through the ISS and for many having that first digipeat after many tries is their success story and we welcome
that.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Gabriel Zeifman <
wrote:
I think the golden rule of working all sats applies to ISS as well: if
you
can't hear (or decode), don't transmit! It's easy to become a source of
QRM
if you keep transmitting in the blind when you can't hear.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Apr 16, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Robert Bruninga [email protected]
wrote:
I agree completely. ISS digipeting should be for LIVE operators. Or
for
LIVE things.... (a student experimental ocean going buoy for
example)...
NOT for non-moving-fixed egos...
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Patrick
STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
Hi!
Earlier today, I tweeted a quick comment about what I saw on the ISS 145.825 MHz digipeater just after 1900 UTC this afternoon. Since tweets are limited in length, I'm posting a longer message here...
In the past few weeks, once word got out that a replacement for the
failed
Ericsson VHF HT on the ISS was being sent up to the station, many were anxiously looking forward to seeing the ISS digipeater move from
437.550
MHz back to 145.825 MHz, where it had been until the old radio's
failure
in mid-October 2016. I understood that many would welcome this change,
but
I was not jumping up and down with excitement. Unfortunately, after
seeing
the activity on the ISS digipeater in the past day or so since the replacement VHF radio was put on 145.825 MHz, my worries have been confirmed.
For many, the move to 437.550 MHz meant many stations that could easily work 145.825 MHz would have to change. Whether it was a different
antenna
for the 70cm band or dealing with Doppler with the 437.550 MHz
frequency,
almost all of the unattended stations that had been present on the
145.825
MHz frequency were gone. If you wanted to use the ISS digipeater to
work
other stations, this was a great opportunity. Many stations using
APRS-ready HTs and mobile transceivers were showing up, using a group
of
memory channels to compensate for Doppler, and were making contacts.
Some
fixed stations, including those already capable of satellite operating,
were also showing up. Even on the busier passes, the 437.550 MHz always seemed to be clear of the clutter from the
unattended
stations that previously inhabited 145.825 MHz.
Fast forward to yesterday (Friday, 14 April). The ISS digipeater
switched
to 145.825 MHz in time for afternoon/evening passes over Europe (around
1330-1400 UTC). Lots of stations showed up, based on looking at the ariss.net web site. The same thing started to happen here in North America, later in the day. The passes I worked last night were not bad, but there were more stations on one pass that went over much of the continental USA than I'd typically see on 437.550 MHz.
By midday today (1900 UTC), it seemed like many more stations were on
the
frequency. I saw 11 other call signs on a pass just after that time
this
afternoon. At best, there may have been 4 or 5 other operators at their
keyboards or keypads, looking to make contacts. The others were just squawking away, not answering APRS messages sent
to
them. By the time the ISS footprint was reaching the east coast, the
frequency was congested. Lots of position beacons were coming through,
but
not much of anything else. This is not new; Clayton W5PFG wrote about
this
about a year ago, here on the AMSAT-BB list:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-April/058200.html
For the two passes I worked this afternoon, around 1900 and 2035 UTC, I made two QSOs on the earlier pass, and one on the later pass. A shame, considering there were so many other call signs on the earlier pass,
and
even some rare spots - stations in DM44 in northern Arizona and CM86 in
Santa Cruz CA were seen.
It is interesting that hams want to have their stations squawk on 145.825 MHz when nobody is at the keyboard. It could be doing it 24/7,
no
matter if the ISS is in view or not. Would anyone think of setting up
their satellite station to automatically transmit their call sign and location every 15/30/60 seconds to SO-50, unattended? I think not! That could be a violation of the regulations, and would definitely be poor
form
by that operator.
Bob Bruninga WB4APR has a couple of documents with recommendations for beacon intervals when working the ISS digipeater. One mentioned a
5-minute
interval for unattended stations:
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/iss-tx.txt
Another document recommends that unattended stations should be in
"receive
ONLY mode." (emphasis is Bob's):
http://www.aprs.org/iss-aprs/utiquet.txt
I agree with the latter. If your station is unattended, why have it transmit at all?! It may be different for less-populated parts of the world, where gateway stations may transmit and then receive their
beacons
from the ISS, which will show up on ariss.net and other sites. For
Europe,
and definitely North America, the gateways really don't need to
transmit
if they are unattended. There should be activity on most passes, maybe
even late into the night, to know 145.825 MHz on the ISS is up and running.
Please don't misunderstand me... I think it is great for hams to set up gateway stations listening on 145.825 MHz for the space-borne APRS activity (ISS, NO-84, even NO-44 when it gets enough power to transmit complete packets). But these stations, like other stations that aren't operating as gateways yet transmit automatically, shouldn't contribute
to
the congestion on the frequency.
I know I am in the minority on the ISS digipeater moving back to 145.825 MHz. Between the unattended stations clogging up the frequency
and
some local interference I hear on 145.825 MHz around my house, having
the
ISS on 437.550 MHz was fun! I worked it from home, and on some of my
road
trips in the past 5+ months. Even for some of my last NPOTA activations
at
the end of 2016. I'll continue to work the ISS digipeater, almost exclusively with my APRS-ready HTs (TH-D72A, or TH-D74A), looking to
make
QSOs by exchanging APRS messages with other stations. If you can work
packet from your station, and we are in the same footprints, I hope to hear you (and see you on my screen) soon. Like W5PFG mentioned a year
ago,
let's get more stations on 145.825 MHz making QSOs...
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Opinions
expressed
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program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
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AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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-- 73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected] Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
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just turn the thing off. end of all problems.
I think this video should clear up everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73EYcyszf8&t=957s
If everyone calls at once (unattended beacons, ops, whatever), it jams it up, listen to that mess when everyone is calling at once. Simple as that!
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 7:18 PM, John Becker [email protected] wrote:
just turn the thing off. end of all problems.
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Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
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Hi Mike,
I think APRS-IS itself is fine. Essential, actually. Not suggesting it should change, or is directly involved in the problem.
So, doing some more digging, the vanity site I thought of was http://www.ariss.net/, and a few others that are similar. BUT, the map, and the table below it, clearly show stations that have live operators behind them, as demonstrated by the 2-way messages listed. And the more I look into the stations list, I'm thinking that Steve is doing some pretty clever filtering to weed out the ones that are just beacons (though I do see a few in there). I thought I saw a bunch that appeared to be unattended, but now I'm not so sure.
So, perhaps, I'm off a bit about the vanity aspect of the unattended beaconing? Are there sites that list row upon row of call signs that aren't live? If there isn't a billboard for unattended beacons, why would someone engage in doing that? A vanity beacon that only the originator knows about isn't very vain. Perhaps something else, but not that.
Greg KO6TH
Mike Diehl wrote:
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Well Mike,
Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds! That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
..........................................
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl _-/` Hello via ISS _%
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l _>/]"5v}=
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599 Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Congrats Stefan, you still have no idea what ISS heard, only what it digipeated. Please also prove me wrong that a simplex channel can support more than 50% utilization. The fact only 5% of the pass had the ISS radio transmitting can either prove nothing or support the fact that there is so much QRM AT THE ISS that very few complete packets were heard and digipeated.
As far as black listing goes the FCC has no authority over what data a site decides to exclude from showing. Sorry but you're reading and not comprehending what I stated.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Well Mike,
Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds! That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
..........................................
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space Station Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17] N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl _-/` Hello via ISS _% Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space Station Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space Station Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62 Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul= Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62 Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63 Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio= Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62 Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l _>/]"5v}= Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul= Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63 Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64 Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599 Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07 Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote: Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks Mike,
I appreciate your open, thoughtful and constructive discussion. Since you don't even seem to have read the log, and the timestamp stations are digipeating, I leave you to your beliefs.
I will stay to the facts and exit this discussion. :-) :-) :-)
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Congrats Stefan, you still have no idea what ISS heard, only what it digipeated. Please also prove me wrong that a simplex channel can support more than 50% utilization. The fact only 5% of the pass had the ISS radio transmitting can either prove nothing or support the fact that there is so much QRM AT THE ISS that very few complete packets were heard and digipeated.
As far as black listing goes the FCC has no authority over what data a site decides to exclude from showing. Sorry but you're reading and not comprehending what I stated.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Well Mike,
Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds! That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
..........................................
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl _-/` Hello via ISS _%
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l _>/]"5v}=
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599 Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I am really not sure what the heartburn is here now that ISS is back on VHF. Nothing is taking place any differently than would have been happening before October. I have digipeated through ISS with my FT1DR to show up on the ISS Heard list. That is obviously what some of the station on the log provided were doing as well. That is totally acceptable. If you see a response from ISS there should be no need to try further. The key of course is to manually transmit and not setup the beacon. The FT1DR is not conducive for easy messaging. I have done successful messaging with an APRSIS32/TNC setup in the past. I will be trying APRSDroid to do the same in the near future.
73. Scott, KA7FVV President - KBARA http://www.ka7fvv.net Co-Owner 443.525 System Fusion Digital/Analog Repeater, Spokane WA
On Apr 17, 2017, at 19:51, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Thanks Mike,
I appreciate your open, thoughtful and constructive discussion. Since you don't even seem to have read the log, and the timestamp stations are digipeating, I leave you to your beliefs.
I will stay to the facts and exit this discussion. :-) :-) :-)
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Congrats Stefan, you still have no idea what ISS heard, only what it digipeated. Please also prove me wrong that a simplex channel can support more than 50% utilization. The fact only 5% of the pass had the ISS radio transmitting can either prove nothing or support the fact that there is so much QRM AT THE ISS that very few complete packets were heard and digipeated.
As far as black listing goes the FCC has no authority over what data a site decides to exclude from showing. Sorry but you're reading and not comprehending what I stated.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Well Mike,
Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds! That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
..........................................
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl _-/` Hello via ISS _%
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l _>/]"5v}=
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599 Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
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Opinions expressed
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of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Everything that has been said in these post's has been going on for 26 years -- ever sence MIR had a digi. There has been experiments with MIR with split freq's . etc It ALL comes down to everyone have fun, have respect for others and enjoy the hobby and if you do not like whats happening, there are other birds up there
Dave N6CO
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott via AMSAT-BB" [email protected] To: "Stefan Wagener" [email protected] Cc: "AMSAT Mailing List" [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz(long)
I am really not sure what the heartburn is here now that ISS is back on VHF. Nothing is taking place any differently than would have been happening before October. I have digipeated through ISS with my FT1DR to show up on the ISS Heard list. That is obviously what some of the station on the log provided were doing as well. That is totally acceptable. If you see a response from ISS there should be no need to try further. The key of course is to manually transmit and not setup the beacon. The FT1DR is not conducive for easy messaging. I have done successful messaging with an APRSIS32/TNC setup in the past. I will be trying APRSDroid to do the same in the near future.
73. Scott, KA7FVV President - KBARA http://www.ka7fvv.net Co-Owner 443.525 System Fusion Digital/Analog Repeater, Spokane WA
On Apr 17, 2017, at 19:51, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Thanks Mike,
I appreciate your open, thoughtful and constructive discussion. Since you don't even seem to have read the log, and the timestamp stations are digipeating, I leave you to your beliefs.
I will stay to the facts and exit this discussion. :-) :-) :-)
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Congrats Stefan, you still have no idea what ISS heard, only what it digipeated. Please also prove me wrong that a simplex channel can support more than 50% utilization. The fact only 5% of the pass had the ISS radio transmitting can either prove nothing or support the fact that there is so much QRM AT THE ISS that very few complete packets were heard and digipeated.
As far as black listing goes the FCC has no authority over what data a site decides to exclude from showing. Sorry but you're reading and not comprehending what I stated.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Stefan Wagener [email protected] wrote:
Well Mike,
Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds! That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
..........................................
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl _-/` Hello via ISS _%
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ: Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/ Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l _>/]"5v}=
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16] 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599 Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599 Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl [email protected] wrote:
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D [email protected] wrote:
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity" aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (16)
-
Alan -
Dave L PhD -
Gabriel Zeifman -
Greg -
Greg D -
Jim Walls -
JoAnne K9JKM -
John Becker -
John Brier -
KC -
Mike Diehl -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Robert Bruninga -
Scott -
Stefan Wagener -
w4upd