YIKES bare bones 4k?? If that is the case one would expect it to be a really hot feature laden rig with everything you'd expect

On May 15, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Michael Tondee wrote:

Ridiculous!!! Michael, W4HIJ On 5/15/2010 3:43 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH wrote:

...

George,

I'm not at Dayton, but what O got from a D-Star reflector was $4000 for bare bones and available sometime Q4.

Dave KB1PVH

Sent from my Verizon Wireless DROID

On May 15, 2010 3:31 PM, "Gkcarr"gkcarr@go-express.net wrote:

OK, Dayton folks, what is being said about the Icom IC-9100? This fat cat is close to death from curiosity! 73 and tnx, George WA5KBH EM30

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Buy the 910 now while stocks last then - it obviously make sense!

guess like many we were hoping that the spec's might actually be better then the 'old' old 910 , mainly better uhf/vhf performance /sensitivity

Maybe it does? It's a rig I 'want to like'.

if it has similar spec's and costs more , and you were mostly interested in the birds I guess finding a 910 wouldn't be bad

ml

On May 15, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mik Forsythe wrote:

Just left Dayton a few hours ago. Icom said that it is basically a 7600 and a 910. It is bigger than the 910. It was in a display case so I can't tell you what the feel was like of the weight. Price is in the $4,000.00 range so that will kill a lot of the satellite market if you ask me.

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Going to Dayton '11 It will get better with more support!

Myles D Landstein N2EHG myles.landstein@gmail.com

I was just thinking the same thing! (FT-736R w/ 1.2 ghz, and FT-767GX w/ 6m, 2m, and 70cm modules, in my case...)

Greg KO6TH

From: ve4yz@hotmail.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 19:17:27 -0500 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Icom 9100

My 15 year old FT736R with the 1.2 module and my FT847 keep looking better - like a fine wine aging.

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Mik Forsythe Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:22 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Icom 9100

Just left Dayton a few hours ago. Icom said that it is basically a 7600 and a 910. It is bigger than the 910. It was in a display case so I can't tell you what the feel was like of the weight. Price is in the $4,000.00 range so that will kill a lot of the satellite market if you ask me.

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I sold my IC-910H recently, as I had thoughts about going with the 9100. But at that price, I can't justify it.

I agree that the Flex 5000 is probably a much better radio (since we don't yet know all the technical details on the 9100). However the cost of the V/U module for the Flex is about as much as you would pay for a brand new TS-2000. Sure the Flex offers more, but let's face it, with the current birds in orbit, it's overkill for the average ham who makes occasional satellite contacts.

Perhaps others such as DEMI, will see this as an opportunity and come up with alternatives?

73 de W4AS

On May 15, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Michael Tondee wrote:

I guess once I put the upcoming V/U module in my Flex 5000 I'll have that amount of money in it but I won't have had to spend it all at once and IMHO I'll have a markedly better radio. Also one that isn't outdated a day after I walk out of the store with it. I'm just not a big fan of Icom's anyway so I guess I'm pretty biased. 73, Michael, W4HIJ

On 5/15/2010 7:22 PM, Mik Forsythe wrote:

...

Just left Dayton a few hours ago. Icom said that it is basically a 7600 and a 910. It is bigger than the 910. It was in a display case so I can't tell you what the feel was like of the weight. Price is in the $4,000.00 range so that will kill a lot of the satellite market if you ask me.

Yaesu should "cash in" with a new satellite radio in the $2k price range. It would likely be a "good thing." Almost $4k for the IC-9100 seems a bit extreme...

73,

Mark N8MH

At 11:50 AM 5/16/2010 -0800, Edward R Cole wrote:

Watching from the sidelines (with my FT-847 and K3).

One of the reasons I held onto my FT-847 was that with the addition of my DEMI 144/1296 xvtr the total outlay (when they were new) was $1600 + $395 ~ $2K. And that covers 160m - 6m, 2m, 70cm, 23cm. The FT-847 "IS" a satellite radio, full-duplex crossband. Too bad they discontinued production (which begs one to wonder if there might be a new version coming?). All radio are increasing in cost (it's called inflation - err, or maybe more profit?).

When I bought the K3, I struggled with considering selling the FT-847 and buying DEMI 144/28 and 432/28 xvtrs. I also considered buying a used IC910H. But, in the end, it made more sense to keep the FT-847 for satellite and casual VHF. The K3 is in a whole 'nother league than the FT-847, as afar as receiver performance and that is why I bought it. I did give in to buying a new DEMI 144/28 xvtr, so in time if Elecraft can come out with duplex receive sw, I may add the 432/28 and finally say goodbye to the old FT-847.

For outright performance, either the K3 or Flex5000 own the real estate (note: TS-590S has been introduced as a contender at Dayton). How they are incorporated for satellite full-duplex operation, remains. The IC9100, TS-2000x are not in that league, sorry.

I doubt that DEMI will enter the transceiver business (but?). I was hoping RFSpace would come up with a dual-Rx SDR-IQ and/or TCVR-IQ. The SDR field is wide-open as where ham radio technology is going. "Theoretically" if you purchase a "good" SDR, you will never have to buy any hardware, again - just new sw.

With the unlikely launch of new Heos, it is hard for the industry to justify (new or existing) high-end satellite rigs. Icom obviously bundled HF into the new radio to widen its appeal to those wanting a one-box,does-all, radio.

PS: in the risk of repeating myself, I bought the K3 to be my state-of-art receiver for eme, ms, mw, and general weak-signal stuff. If it can eventually do satellite that would be an added frill.

73, Ed - KL7UW

At 10:59 AM 5/16/2010, Sebastian wrote:

...

I sold my IC-910H recently, as I had thoughts about going with the 9100. But at that price, I can't justify it.

I agree that the Flex 5000 is probably a much better radio (since we don't yet know all the technical details on the 9100). However the cost of the V/U module for the Flex is about as much as you would pay for a brand new TS-2000. Sure the Flex offers more, but let's face it, with the current birds in orbit, it's overkill for the average ham who makes occasional satellite contacts.

Perhaps others such as DEMI, will see this as an opportunity and come up with alternatives?

73 de W4AS

On May 15, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Michael Tondee wrote:

...

I guess once I put the upcoming V/U module in my Flex 5000 I'll have that amount of money in it but I won't have had to spend it all at once and IMHO I'll have a markedly better radio. Also one that isn't outdated a day after I walk out of the store with it. I'm just not a big fan of Icom's anyway so I guess I'm pretty biased. 73, Michael, W4HIJ

On 5/15/2010 7:22 PM, Mik Forsythe wrote:

...

Just left Dayton a few hours ago. Icom said that it is

basically a 7600 and a 910. It is bigger than the 910. It was in a display case so I can't tell you what the feel was like of the weight. Price is in the $4,000.00 range so that will kill a lot of the satellite market if you ask me.

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Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

Full duplex transceiver?

Back in the dim dawn of history, there used to be those who constructed transmitters that were separate from receivers. Although constructing such a thing is beyond me, I would like to see someone create a device that was intended to feed the input of an upconverter. I can already get general-coverage receivers at reasonable cost. If I'm computer controlling one or the other of them, or both, there is no real advantage to having the in the same physical box.

I can understand why such a thing might be less than perfectly useful for those who want a portable station, but it would seem to me to be just fine for someone who wants to operate a fixed station.

On 05/17/2010 05:38 PM, tosca005@umn.edu wrote:

On May 16 2010, Sebastian wrote:

...

Perhaps others such as DEMI, will see this as an opportunity and come up with alternatives?

Well, keep in mind that DEMI's strength is in transverters, and what is hard to obtain for satellite operation from most common-place existing equipment is a full-duplex transceiver. I don't think that DEMI is likely to start building transceivers, but if you had a true full-duplex transceiver, they would have transverters available to upgrade the radio to the satellite bands needed.

Here's a thought: buy two SoftRocks for a lot less than the price of the Flex 5000 -- one would be the v6.3Rx/Tx and the other could be the V9 Rx only. This would net you two independent receivers and one transmitter, and with clever wiring, selection of VHF& up transverters, and maybe a little bit of software development, you could turn that into a software-defined radio that would be capable of full-duplex cross-band operation. (The V9 Rx would be the primary receiver, the receiver in the V6.3Rx/Tx would be "spare" or "extra" or even ignored.) You'd need to configure the transverters with "split IF", and use two coaxial relays to route the 28 MHz SoftRock IF Rx and Tx separately to the correct receive and transmit transverters. A bit of innovation/homebrewing would be needed for convenient band-switching, since you would need to switch two different transverters into the correct "position" depending on the mode: V/U vs. U/V vs. V/S vs. U/S vs. L/S vs. L/U vs. whatever other modes you wanted to support. But 4 transverters (145, 435, 1269, and 2400 MHz) would give you lots of satellite modes. Oh, don't forget there are some birds with HF links and the SoftRock can do HF natively too...

If only I had the time to work on such a thing...

Ideally, the transverters would be dual frequency, so that you could tune to 432 terrestrial or 435 satellite; 1269 satellite or 1296 terrestrial; and 2304 terrestrial or 2400 satellite. Newer DEMI transverters with the synthesized LO board can be configured that way, at least on the higher bands. Then you'd have not only a kick-@$$ satellite system, but also an outstanding weak-signal terrestrial system.

Unfortunately, DEMI is once again revamping their lineup of products. Of course, this is good for us who want the latest and best, but bad for us who want something right NOW. Prices and specs are a little bit harder to obtain from DEMI right now, but I expect that the wait will be worth it.

73 de W0JT

...

On May 15, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Michael Tondee wrote:

...

I guess once I put the upcoming V/U module in my Flex 5000 I'll have that amount of money in it but I won't have had to spend it all at once and IMHO I'll have a markedly better radio. Also one that isn't outdated a day after I walk out of the store with it.

On 5/15/2010 7:22 PM, Mik Forsythe wrote:

...

Just left Dayton a few hours ago. Icom said that it is basically a 7600 and a 910. It is bigger than the 910. It was in a display case so I can't tell you what the feel was like of the weight. Price is in the $4,000.00 range so that will kill a lot of the satellite market if you ask me.

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!DSPAM:117,4bf1cfd4170036849314807!

On May 17 2010, Edward R Cole wrote:

At 02:38 PM 5/17/2010, tosca005@umn.edu wrote:

...

Here's a thought: buy two SoftRocks for a lot less than the price of the Flex 5000 -- one would be the v6.3Rx/Tx and the other could be the V9 Rx only.

Huh? Why? Put a xvtr for the uplink band on the Tx and another xvtr for the downlink for the Rx.

Because the SoftRock v6.3Rx/Tx is half-duplex only. It receives OR it transmits, but doesn't do both at the same time. So my proposal is that an Rx/Tx unit provides the transmit, and a completely separate Rx only model provides the receive.

...

, and use two coaxial relays to route the 28 MHz SoftRock IF Rx and Tx separately to the correct receive and transmit transverters.

I thought you had two separate Softrocks, so why the relays?

Not an Rx/Tx relay. What I was imagining (and similar to what I am building myself) uses a single pole, 6-position coaxial SMA relay. For satellite use (full-duplex), the Tx port goes to the common, and the Tx port of 6 different transverters go onto the six selectable ports. The Rx port goes to a second 6-way relay common, and the six poles go to the Rx side of 6 different bands.

Six-pole relays are hard to find, you might find it easier to come up with 4- pole relays, but I snatched up a bunch of six-pole relays from eBay a few years back. In fact, i snatched up twice as many as I really wanted at the time, because my regular auction looked to be in jeopardy of losing, so I bid on a Buy-it-now auction, and of course, won both.

Four-pole relays would be plenty for V, U, L, and S bands in all legal combinations.

In my application for terrestrial use, one 6-pole relay goes to a 10M SDR common, and the 6 poles go to (1) HF, (2) 50 MHz Xvt, (3) 144 MHz Xvt, (4) 222 MHz Xvt, (5) 432 MHz Xvt, (6) to a special 2M-10M intermediate Xvt, which goes to another 6-pole relay, and from there to the 6 higher bands: 902, 1296, 2304, 3456, 5760, and 10368 that all need a 2M IF instead of a 10M IF.

...

A bit of innovation/homebrewing would be needed for convenient band-switching, since you would need to switch two different transverters into the correct "position" depending on the mode: V/U vs. U/V vs. V/S vs. U/S vs. L/S vs. L/U vs. whatever other modes you wanted to support. But 4 transverters (145, 435, 1269, and 2400 MHz) would give you lots of satellite modes.

four xvtrs would give you every conceivable combination of up and down link: V/U, U/V, V/L*, L/V, V/S, S/V, U/L*, L/U, U/S, S/U, L/S, S/L*

• These modes are not allowed for Amateur Radio space-coms.

If each xvtr was configured for separate Rx and Tx antenna and IF connections the configuration tree would be simpler. I count nine configurations (excluding HF bands). If eighteen coax relays seem a bit much, make a coax patch panel and use coax jumpers to configure for the mode you want.

One 4-pole relay for the Tx side, and one 4-pole relay for the Rx side (well, you only need 3-pole since L-band is not an acceptable downlink) and two rotary switches to select the Rx band and the Tx band would do it. But wouldn't you prefer to be able to just push a button labelled "L/S" and have the Tx and Rx relays switched to the appropriate band positions? That's what I ment with innovation / homebrewing for convenient band switching.

...

Ideally, the transverters would be dual frequency, so that you could tune to 432 terrestrial or 435 satellite; 1269 satellite or 1296 terrestrial; and 2304 terrestrial or 2400 satellite.

With the newest xvtrs using PLL in place of xtal oscillators; this is a dc switch to shift LO's. I am installing PLL's into my 1296 and 3400 DEMI xvtrs.

Yeah, I bought one for my 10368 MHz transverter, but haven't gotten around to installing it in place of the MicroLO board. I even have a 10 MHz rubidium standard to lock it onto the correct frequency. More projects than time to work on them!

...

Newer DEMI transverters with the synthesized LO board can be configured that way, at least on the higher bands. Then you'd have not only a kick-@$$ satellite system, but also an outstanding weak-signal terrestrial system.

DEMI is planning for PLL from VHF up (when they can get to it). PLL available now 1296 and up.

That's good to know. I realized they were working down the bands in their quest to redesign their transverters to all work with the PLL board. I didn't know that they already had 1269/1296 and 2304/2400 PLL transverter configurations ready.

...

Unfortunately, DEMI is once again revamping their lineup of products. Of course, this is good for us who want the latest and best, but bad for us who want something right NOW. Prices and specs are a little bit harder to obtain from DEMI right now, but I expect that the wait will be worth it.

Prices are announced on the webpage. Some of the xvtrs are shipping in June (I have 144/28 ordered). They are shipping assembled units first, then will offer kits later in the summer.

Per the web site:

No prices currently listed for 6M through 70cm bands. "in redevelopment" No PLL models announced for 33cm and 23cm yet. All models from 13cm and higher frequency now listed as PLL models with pricing information.

You may have more information than I do on that. I pretty much stay chained to my desk here in the sub-basement most of the day.,.

73 de W0JT

I won't count on any price of a product before that product is actually in the hands of a dealer that is offering it for sale. After all, the easiest way for a competitor to boost their sales is to start a rumor about a price of an unreleased product. It might very well be $4k. No rep for a product is going to say what it is going to sell for until it is ready to come to market. After all, what if they find a really neat way to design the XYZ chip in the radio and it saves them lots of money right before final production and they can bring the cost way down. Won't we look silly.

Before we start saying no one will purchase it and it is out of everyone's reach, we really need to give Icom a chance to bring it to market. If they decide simply by listening to what people are saying and say there is no reason to manufacture this radio, their goes our opportunity for a new rig.

I sold my Icom IC 756 Pro and Icom IC 821H back in September, awaiting for the IC-9100. I am not going to decide on another radio until I see how much this one is. I just looked at Flex 5000 and it looks nice as well. My logging software (Logic 8) will also work with the Flex 5000 and I am sure it will work with the IC 9100 (maybe with a little design fix for the USB port by Dennis at PDA).

No base satellite radio and no HF radio and waiting....73...bruce

On 5/18/2010 2:30 PM, Dee wrote:

Satellite enthusiasts, To give everyone the actual Pre-release specs, I have attached the copy (specs only) of the Icom pamphlet I was offered at Dayton about the IC9100. I think that if Yaesu comes in with a $2000 version, they will corner the market- I own 2 (yes, two) IC910's and love them but the price of this IC9100 is out there with the satellites somewhere. The estimated cost of $4000 is out of reach for the average satellite enthusiast. This is a hobby, not a profession...and while it looks great, the satellite users need something they can afford so they can also donate to& support a Launch fund to allow AMSAT-NA to put up another HEO bird. (One of the top questions to AMSAT at the Dayton 2010 booth while spending 14+ hours assisting with fund raising& fielding members questions.) Similar obstacles are being encountered by AMSAT-DL. Putting together a satellite our members have asked for is within sight, however, launching them is presently out of reach. AMSAT-NA is presently putting together several LEO projects to keep the spark alive. Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood, Alinco,& other manufacturers, a campaign for the launch costs for the benefit of all is needed to re-kindle the satellite spirit of yesterday. (AO-10, AO-13 and AO-40) DARA has started in this direction with their matching funds offer(Thanks). Let's continue with this support. See you on the birds. 73, Dee, NB2F AMSAT Life member and Satellite enthusiast

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of tosca005@umn.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:00 PM To: Edward R Cole Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Icom 9100

On May 17 2010, Edward R Cole wrote:

...

At 02:38 PM 5/17/2010, tosca005@umn.edu wrote:

...

Here's a thought: buy two SoftRocks for a lot less than the price of the Flex 5000 -- one would be the v6.3Rx/Tx and the other could be the V9 Rx only.

Huh? Why? Put a xvtr for the uplink band on the Tx and another xvtr for the downlink for the Rx.

Because the SoftRock v6.3Rx/Tx is half-duplex only. It receives OR it transmits, but doesn't do both at the same time. So my proposal is that an Rx/Tx unit provides the transmit, and a completely separate Rx only model provides the receive.

...

...

, and use two coaxial relays to route the 28 MHz SoftRock IF Rx and Tx separately to the correct receive and transmit transverters.

I thought you had two separate Softrocks, so why the relays?

Not an Rx/Tx relay. What I was imagining (and similar to what I am building myself) uses a single pole, 6-position coaxial SMA relay. For satellite use (full-duplex), the Tx port goes to the common, and the Tx port of 6 different transverters go onto the six selectable ports. The Rx port goes to a second 6-way relay common, and the six poles go to the Rx side of 6 different bands.

Six-pole relays are hard to find, you might find it easier to come up with 4- pole relays, but I snatched up a bunch of six-pole relays from eBay a few years back. In fact, i snatched up twice as many as I really wanted at the time, because my regular auction looked to be in jeopardy of losing, so I bid on a Buy-it-now auction, and of course, won both.

Four-pole relays would be plenty for V, U, L, and S bands in all legal combinations.

In my application for terrestrial use, one 6-pole relay goes to a 10M SDR common, and the 6 poles go to (1) HF, (2) 50 MHz Xvt, (3) 144 MHz Xvt, (4) 222 MHz Xvt, (5) 432 MHz Xvt, (6) to a special 2M-10M intermediate Xvt, which goes to another 6-pole relay, and from there to the 6 higher bands: 902, 1296, 2304, 3456, 5760, and 10368 that all need a 2M IF instead of a 10M IF.

...

...

A bit of innovation/homebrewing would be needed for convenient band-switching, since you would need to switch two different transverters into the correct "position" depending on the mode: V/U vs. U/V vs. V/S vs. U/S vs. L/S vs. L/U vs. whatever other modes you wanted to support. But 4 transverters (145, 435, 1269, and 2400 MHz) would give you lots of satellite modes.

four xvtrs would give you every conceivable combination of up and down link: V/U, U/V, V/L*, L/V, V/S, S/V, U/L*, L/U, U/S, S/U, L/S, S/L*

• These modes are not allowed for Amateur Radio space-coms.

If each xvtr was configured for separate Rx and Tx antenna and IF connections the configuration tree would be simpler. I count nine configurations (excluding HF bands). If eighteen coax relays seem a bit much, make a coax patch panel and use coax jumpers to configure for the mode you want.

One 4-pole relay for the Tx side, and one 4-pole relay for the Rx side (well, you only need 3-pole since L-band is not an acceptable downlink) and two rotary switches to select the Rx band and the Tx band would do it. But wouldn't you prefer to be able to just push a button labelled "L/S" and have the Tx and Rx relays switched to the appropriate band positions? That's what I ment with innovation / homebrewing for convenient band switching.

...

...

Ideally, the transverters would be dual frequency, so that you could tune to 432 terrestrial or 435 satellite; 1269 satellite or 1296 terrestrial; and 2304 terrestrial or 2400 satellite.

With the newest xvtrs using PLL in place of xtal oscillators; this is a dc switch to shift LO's. I am installing PLL's into my 1296 and 3400 DEMI xvtrs.

Yeah, I bought one for my 10368 MHz transverter, but haven't gotten around to installing it in place of the MicroLO board. I even have a 10 MHz rubidium standard to lock it onto the correct frequency. More projects than time to work on them!

...

...

Newer DEMI transverters with the synthesized LO board can be configured that way, at least on the higher bands. Then you'd have not only a kick-@$$ satellite system, but also an outstanding weak-signal terrestrial system.

DEMI is planning for PLL from VHF up (when they can get to it). PLL available now 1296 and up.

That's good to know. I realized they were working down the bands in their quest to redesign their transverters to all work with the PLL board. I didn't know that they already had 1269/1296 and 2304/2400 PLL transverter configurations ready.

...

...

Unfortunately, DEMI is once again revamping their lineup of products. Of course, this is good for us who want the latest and best, but bad for us who want something right NOW. Prices and specs are a little bit harder to obtain from DEMI right now, but I expect that the wait will be

worth it.

...

Prices are announced on the webpage. Some of the xvtrs are shipping in June (I have 144/28 ordered). They are shipping assembled units first, then will offer kits later in the summer.

Per the web site:

No prices currently listed for 6M through 70cm bands. "in redevelopment" No PLL models announced for 33cm and 23cm yet. All models from 13cm and higher frequency now listed as PLL models with pricing information.

You may have more information than I do on that. I pretty much stay chained to my desk here in the sub-basement most of the day.,.

73 de W0JT _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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