Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011
Hi,
Neither Nigel or I said that.
Sorry I didn't clarify - I was referring to your opinion on the use of recorders in general.
What has me a little confused right now is why some DO NOT think it is okay to use someone else's recording. In the case of a recorder failing because of dead batteries, you can't blame that on the op - his recorder died. There is nothing wrong with WHAT recording he uses. Why does K8YSE post all those recordings to his website? I understand what everyone says about not using someone else's recording because your receiving was bad, you went behind the tree or house, or something else that is dependent upon the operators station, and I agree. But a recorder going dead is no one's fault - its dead. Find another recording if possible and log it. I wouldn't consider using someone else's recording as they are logging it for you.
I respect all of the opinions here - different opinions and ideas help develop the hobby. We need to keep in mind this is a HOBBY - hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable. There are definitely rules and regs that must be followed, but I don’t think it's worthwhile to get caught up in WHOSE recording you use, what antenna you use, how you say your call sign, etc., etc. Let's just enjoy the hobby!
With that I am going to sign with you all on this discussion.....
73!
Zack KD8KSN
-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 7:06 PM To: Zachary Beougher ; Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011
Zack,
Neither Nigel or I said that. Burden of proof of contact lies with the stations making the contact. Use of a recorder is OK (what I said), but relying on others to log your contact is not. The farthest one can stretch that is if the other station in the QSO confirms that you and they completed a contact. And that is not kosher under eme rules (as I have pointed out). But then is "ordinary" ham radio where the rules are more lenient.
But for these contacts to "count" toward awards such as WAS or DXCC, or in a contest, you must enter your log. Asking others what they heard would be considered cheating. If you operate satellites for personal pleasure with no regard to awards, standings, etc. then it matters only to your own personal standard of operation.
But be aware that others may not agree :-\
73, Ed
At 01:51 PM 2/6/2011, Zachary Beougher wrote:
Hi Ed and Nigel,
I agree this is reasonable as well. I don’t see an issue with using someone else's recordings because your batteries died, as long as you heard the QSO, repeated the other station's call back, etc., as I said in my original email. If you aren't for sure if the station came back to your call or if he confirmed he heard you because you lost the bird or went behind a tree, then that's a different story.
I also think it's good to have a little grace - we can't expect a first-timer to the sats to jump on and copy and repeat all call signs 100%. When I first started, all I said was a "QSL," or "copy that." I imagine I frustrated a few ops who were wondering who I was QSLing. ;-)
73,
Zack KD8KSN
-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:24 PM To: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF ; [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011
At 01:14 PM 2/6/2011, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
I don't think the issue is whether or not you use a recorder, packet/psk31/rtty ops are not penalised because they have a computer record of the contact by virtue of the technology used for that mode. If a voice recorder is part of your shack, that's fine.
The issue is having to ask others if they heard your QSO and can tell you the details. If you chose technology to help you, fine. If your technology fails, so does the QSO. It's not acceptable to expect the rest of the world to be your log keeper.
I agree with this!
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [email protected] ====================================== *temp not in service _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [email protected] ====================================== *temp not in service
Of course you can blame that on the op, the same as if the batteries in his radio die or he doesn't pay his electricity bill. It's all part of preparing your station for the intended job.
You wouldn't phone your mate and ask him to complete your contact because your radio failed. You'd fix it and try again later.
On 07-Feb-11 02:10, Zachary Beougher wrote: In the case of a recorder failing because
of dead batteries, you can't blame that on the op -
On 2/6/2011 8:10 PM, Zachary Beougher wrote:
Hi,
Neither Nigel or I said that.
Sorry I didn't clarify - I was referring to your opinion on the use of recorders in general.
What has me a little confused right now is why some DO NOT think it is okay to use someone else's recording.
Simple, BECAUSE YOUR HELLO? YOUR STATION did not make the qso simple and period. a third station made the recieving part of the qso not YOURS how can that be any clearer?
In the case of a recorder failing because of dead batteries, you can't blame that on the op - his recorder died.
Yes I can he did not install fresh ones. Thats as valid as if his reciever died in the middle of the qso and then got the tape from a third station to get the information, he DID NOT finish the qso on HIS ststion!! geez.. A qso for verification is between two stations not three 4, 10, whatever.
If I was the ARRL or AmSAT or any award giving out org. and I knew this station claimed credit in this way he'd be banned from all awards for life.
There is nothing wrong with WHAT recording he uses. Why does K8YSE post all those recordings to his website?
So you can hear what signals sound like? I dunno for sure. But if they are being used
I understand what everyone says about not using someone else's recording because your receiving was bad, you went behind the tree or house, or something else that is dependent upon the operators station, and I agree. But a recorder going dead is no one's fault - its dead. Find another recording if possible and log it. I wouldn't consider using someone else's recording as they are logging it for you.
But see thats the limitations of his station, in your thinking then we have a Low pass happening, the sat is about to set, you get your sig to him but it sets just as he is sending it to you. In your theroy all he needs to do is get the recording and see what his sig report was? ya got to be kidding!!!
I respect all of the opinions here - different opinions and ideas help develop the hobby. We need to keep in mind this is a HOBBY - hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable. There are definitely rules and regs that must be followed, but I don’t think it's worthwhile to get caught up in WHOSE recording you use, what antenna you use, how you say your call sign, etc., etc. Let's just enjoy the hobby!
But see that is a rule for a QSO between you and the other station,, no other stations involved.
With that I am going to sign with you all on this discussion.....
73!
Zack KD8KSN
-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 7:06 PM To: Zachary Beougher ; Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011
Zack,
Neither Nigel or I said that. Burden of proof of contact lies with the stations making the contact. Use of a recorder is OK (what I said), but relying on others to log your contact is not. The farthest one can stretch that is if the other station in the QSO confirms that you and they completed a contact. And that is not kosher under eme rules (as I have pointed out). But then is "ordinary" ham radio where the rules are more lenient.
But for these contacts to "count" toward awards such as WAS or DXCC, or in a contest, you must enter your log. Asking others what they heard would be considered cheating. If you operate satellites for personal pleasure with no regard to awards, standings, etc. then it matters only to your own personal standard of operation.
But be aware that others may not agree :-\
73, Ed
At 01:51 PM 2/6/2011, Zachary Beougher wrote:
Hi Ed and Nigel,
I agree this is reasonable as well. I don’t see an issue with using someone else's recordings because your batteries died, as long as you heard the QSO, repeated the other station's call back, etc., as I said in my original email. If you aren't for sure if the station came back to your call or if he confirmed he heard you because you lost the bird or went behind a tree, then that's a different story.
I also think it's good to have a little grace - we can't expect a first-timer to the sats to jump on and copy and repeat all call signs 100%. When I first started, all I said was a "QSL," or "copy that." I imagine I frustrated a few ops who were wondering who I was QSLing. ;-)
73,
Zack KD8KSN
-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:24 PM To: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF ; [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011
At 01:14 PM 2/6/2011, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
I don't think the issue is whether or not you use a recorder, packet/psk31/rtty ops are not penalised because they have a computer record of the contact by virtue of the technology used for that mode. If a voice recorder is part of your shack, that's fine.
The issue is having to ask others if they heard your QSO and can tell you the details. If you chose technology to help you, fine. If your technology fails, so does the QSO. It's not acceptable to expect the rest of the world to be your log keeper.
I agree with this!
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [email protected] ====================================== *temp not in service _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [email protected] ====================================== *temp not in service
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (3)
-
Joe -
Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF -
Zachary Beougher