Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
********************************* Text of forwarded letter is below *********************************
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard
What ever happened to the good old days where if you didn't like the place you were an unpaid volunteer, you quit, walked away and didn’t call your attorney?
I have no respect in the fact that an attorney is even involved in volunteer position.
Greg N3MVF
On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
********************************* Text of forwarded letter is below *********************************
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Imagine how we felt when we found out about the secretly hired lawyers. It was the last thing we expected to find.
Patrick and I really want all of our membership money to not go towards secretly hired lawyers used to target members that "annoy" the board. We really didn't like getting ambushed by lawyers on phone calls with the President of the organization. That sort of thing is unfair and not right.
We called in expert legal help as a last resort, to deal with being targeted by lawyers paid for by our own membership dues.
If we simply walked away after discovering this, then it would still be going on, and would happen again to others.
I am very sorry it's unpleasant. The "official explanation" is not official and it's not an explanation. It's untrue and damaging.
It needs to be retracted.
Directors and officers need to change the way they do things in terms of financial accountability and transparency.
This will lead, with 100% certainty, to immediate visible benefits.
That is what we are working for.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:21 AM Greg via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
What ever happened to the good old days where if you didn't like the place you were an unpaid volunteer, you quit, walked away and didn’t call your attorney?
I have no respect in the fact that an attorney is even involved in volunteer position.
Greg N3MVF
On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Text of forwarded letter is below
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thank you so much for this. I needed a good laugh today. I hope you didn't pay more than a few hundred bucks to have this 'demand' (still laughing at that) letter written.
For those on the sidelines not used to dealing with lawyers often, this is why an organization like AMSAT spends $10k+ a year in legal fees. Quality work is worth it.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:46 AM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Text of forwarded letter is below
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Patrick,
I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you please step down from being an AMSAT director? It's obviously not working out well for you (and others). I mean, we can all see why AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now.... This is a concrete reason to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend. Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and does not bring you much credibility in my book. These are the kinds of matters that professionals resolve privately. By sending this to the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work. This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and I personally do NOT thank you for it.
Honestly though, this is just getting stupid. Just because people are voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the people voted in are any good for the job or working with the organization. Or... even know how to work well with others. In any election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals that run under false-pretenses. Just look at the last Florida gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo, democracy.
The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step down, immediately. Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at virtuosity aside). Do us all a favor, step down from your positions please. This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
Thank You, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Text of forwarded letter is below
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joseph,
Agree….
The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn’t there. Why? Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and volunteer labor. It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests, not the organizations. That includes both sides.
Greg N3MVF
On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Patrick,
I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you please step down from being an AMSAT director? It's obviously not working out well for you (and others). I mean, we can all see why AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now.... This is a concrete reason to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend. Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and does not bring you much credibility in my book. These are the kinds of matters that professionals resolve privately. By sending this to the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work. This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and I personally do NOT thank you for it.
Honestly though, this is just getting stupid. Just because people are voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the people voted in are any good for the job or working with the organization. Or... even know how to work well with others. In any election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals that run under false-pretenses. Just look at the last Florida gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo, democracy.
The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step down, immediately. Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at virtuosity aside). Do us all a favor, step down from your positions please. This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
Thank You, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Text of forwarded letter is below
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Patrick and Michelle, you got my attention. I am forwarding a check today for the legal defense fund.
Stephen Nipper N7DJX Boise Idaho
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:59 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Joseph,
Agree….
The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn’t there. Why? Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and volunteer labor. It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests, not the organizations. That includes both sides.
Greg N3MVF
On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Patrick,
I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you please step down from being an AMSAT director? It's obviously not working out well for you (and others). I mean, we can all see why AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now.... This is a concrete reason to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend. Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and does not bring you much credibility in my book. These are the kinds of matters that professionals resolve privately. By sending this to the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work. This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and I personally do NOT thank you for it.
Honestly though, this is just getting stupid. Just because people are voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the people voted in are any good for the job or working with the organization. Or... even know how to work well with others. In any election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals that run under false-pretenses. Just look at the last Florida gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo, democracy.
The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step down, immediately. Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at virtuosity aside). Do us all a favor, step down from your positions please. This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
Thank You, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Text of forwarded letter is below
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Why do I have to remind you that by the incumbent board's own written admission, they hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick long before Michelle and Patrick saw the need to hire an attorney.
Why should Patrick and Michelle step down rather than fight a board that - in my direct experience - repeatedly can't follow its own bylaws and has shown a complete inability to handle opposition in a democratic manner?
Why shouldn't we be calling for the incumbents to step down?
Bruce Perens K6BP
Bruce,
Can you start your own amateur space organization? And, take all the people that want to follow with you. That would honestly be better for everyone.
This is all un-necessary, un-professional and Actually Avoidable. That's the worst part. And those who do not want to avoid this nonsense are going to propagate it, making everyone in a good organization suffer.
Thanks, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 3:32 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
Why do I have to remind you that by the incumbent board's own written admission, they hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick long before Michelle and Patrick saw the need to hire an attorney.
Why should Patrick and Michelle step down rather than fight a board that - in my direct experience - repeatedly can't follow its own bylaws and has shown a complete inability to handle opposition in a democratic manner?
Why shouldn't we be calling for the incumbents to step down?
Bruce Perens K6BP
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
Can you start your own amateur space organization?
You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better time, would have gone to AMSAT? The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and the ground station to go with it? The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds for them without their being diverted elsewhere? The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its 501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here, including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL *and the majority of its own membership *were barriers to the advancement of Amateur Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted, against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air than ever! Everybody won!
You don't achieve these things by backing down.
Thanks
Bruce
You Ask
Can you start your own amateur space organization?
YES it is called the https://www.spaceforce.mil/
Everyone Stay Safe and Healthy With the way the world is now a little humor helps
73 Don KA9QJG
Bruce,
None of the questions you asked mean anything tangible, but they make it sound like a lot is going on. Is there? I don't know? To the contrary, many public private grants and contracts are awarded and produce absolutely nothing or are awarded for all the wrong reasons and end up suffering down the line (being scrubbed, re-competed, etc...). How long have the projects been taking place and what has actually been produced? Is there a transponder? Is there a ground station?
So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to 'fix' AMSAT?
From the looks of the AMSAT bylaws, having an 'AMSAT organizational
membership' (Member Society, proper noun), eally just means you submitted an application and paid a fee. Any organization could do the same and would likely get accepted (membership-fees applied).
When you say """We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI.""". That's a red flag in my mind, and it begs the question, why? And i'm not actually asking you why, but i'm asking the membership to consider why this could be. My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at least the ones I know personally. So, there must be a difference or other information / circumstances.
Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code. Just imagine the number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to get rid of the permits.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 4:20 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com wrote:
Can you start your own amateur space organization?
You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better time, would have gone to AMSAT? The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and the ground station to go with it? The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds for them without their being diverted elsewhere? The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its 501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here, including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL and the majority of its own membership were barriers to the advancement of Amateur Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted, against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air than ever! Everybody won!
You don't achieve these things by backing down.
Thanks Bruce
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 2:06 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
How long have the projects been taking place and what has actually been produced?
There is quite a lot that you can find on the web site. https://openresearch.institute/ and these github repositories: https://github.com/phase4ground/dvb_fpga https://github.com/phase4ground/polar https://github.com/phase4ground/documents https://github.com/phase4ground/DVB-receiver It's a pretty good record for an organization started in February 2019.
So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to 'fix' AMSAT?
You would not see three of the candidates, plus Michelle, Patrick, and myself were there not a desire to fix AMSAT. I think ORI has become a viable destination for funding the future development of Amateur Satellite, while AMSAT is not being a good destination for that presently. This can be fixed and both organizations can receive funding for their individual projects solely on their technical merits. IMO AMSAT loses funds today due to problems in organizational transparency and reliability in directing funds to the earmarked purpose. I have heard specific complaints by two large donors, but was not authorized to relay them.
Any organization could do the same and would likely get accepted
(membership-fees applied).
Actually, we were appreciative that Brennan was running this. I do not believe it would have gone as you say otherwise.
My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at least the ones I know personally. So, there must be a difference or other information / circumstances.
Yes, there is indeed a difference. You have not acted as opposition.
As I have explained, volunteer directors of non-profit boards sometimes do not learn how to deal with opposition. The problem is certainly not that Michelle and Patrick have acted as opposition, but that the incumbent board has ineptly and undemocratically handled opposition.
Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code. Just imagine the number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to get rid of the permits.
So, do you think I never heard this sort of poorly-though-out rationale? Obviously I was not working to get rid of the "permits". Although Amateur licensing increased for a time, and we headed off our *immediate *demise, *it is no longer doing so. *Old farts like you and I, Joseph, do not matter to the future of Amateur Radio. Obviously we need to get it working on things that will interest young people, or it may be that we preside over the end of ham radio within our lifetimes.
Thanks
Bruce
This Is from someone not in the Amsat community but somewhat knowledgeable about the biz, Jim Lux, W6RMK.
Just a general comment on the world of amateur satellites..
It may well be that AMSAT has reached the end of its natural life - and the original purpose is no more - and this is why there is so much dissention among the board. If there's no clear common goal, then most organizations wind up this way. I've not followed AMSAT very closely - I'd look to folks like Courtney N5BF for that kind of info - he was big into AMSAT a few decades ago.
But in a larger picture sense - it used to be that getting a satellite into orbit, as amateurs, was quite the feat - OSCAR-1, etc. showed that it was possible. AMSAT served an immensely useful purpose in showing launch providers that the secondary payload they were going to carry was actually built by people who knew what they were doing, etc. AMSAT was a key part of "access to space" as well as a clearinghouse for amateur satellite design and construction information. As AMSAT's web page says: "For over 50 years, AMSAT groups in North America and elsewhere have played a key role in significantly advancing the state of the art in space science, space education, and space technology."
Three big things have changed: 1) Amateur satellites are no longer inextricably combined with Amateur radio - if you show up trying to get your satellite coordinated using amateur frequencies, and it's just for TT&C (Telemetry, Tracking, and Control), and not some sort of amateur radio communication function, you'll be told - get your license another way: The amateur satellite service is not for you. And, nobody in their right mind would use amateur radio derived designs for their small-sat telecom - being able to leverage that 30 year old hardware you found at a hamfest 20 years ago isn't a driver for most small sat project.
2) Access to space is now available to anyone with a sufficiently large wallet, where "sufficiently large" is small enough to be within the range of high school and university classes (particularly if they're getting a ride with NASA CubeSat Launch Initiative - where the "ride" is free). There's an entire world of brokers who will help you get your spacecraft into space, licensed or not (Sara Spangelo and Swarm Technologies). And I don't think AMSAT has a better shot at getting amateur radio into GEO or HEO than any other organization. That train left the station about 10 years ago.
3) Information on how to build a spacecraft is available everywhere, and there are literally hundreds of people who have done it.
So you don't need AMSAT with its ham radio connections for licensing, nor for access to space, nor for spacecraft building info. What then, is AMSAT's purpose, *today*? (other than self perpetuation and advocacy for amateur satellite work - the latter is useful, but AMSAT isn't unique there)
Let's be clear here - I do not have a particular opinion about this particular dispute - From the descriptions, some of the board members are doing bad things, or at least things other board members aren't happy about. That's certainly undesirable. But I don't see it as particularly different than factional disputes in HOA boards, ham clubs, and local service clubs/organizations.
I'm commenting more because I see Amateur Radio heading towards a similar problem. What should ARRL be advocating for? I think that encouraging microwave usage, in an experimental - advancing the art way, is a good idea. Keeping the HF spectrum unencroached on - that requires vigilance - not that I think contesting and DXCC should necessarily be amateur radio's raison d'etre, but it's a hobby, enjoyed by many, and world wide HF communication without depending on someone else's infrastructure is a cool aspect. I think a lot of people are having fun with new digital modes on HF. VHF and UHF - cell phones have replaced the "utility" aspect of a HT and repeaters with autopatch. It's an excellent place to start - cheap, no need for big antenna, you learn a lot about propagation. I don't think that VHF is where someone who's thinking microwaves should start - we've moved beyond the "let's triple up from 144MHz to 432, and then we can triple again to 1296, using a 10m rig as an IF." Not when you can buy a DC-6GHz synthesizer chip for under $10, and a complete radio for MF to 4 or 6 GHz for $100-200.
--- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side 73 de W3AB/GEO
You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
On Monday, July 27, 2020, 02:10:30 PM PDT, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
None of the questions you asked mean anything tangible, but they make it sound like a lot is going on. Is there? I don't know? To the contrary, many public private grants and contracts are awarded and produce absolutely nothing or are awarded for all the wrong reasons and end up suffering down the line (being scrubbed, re-competed, etc...). How long have the projects been taking place and what has actually been produced? Is there a transponder? Is there a ground station?
So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to 'fix' AMSAT?
From the looks of the AMSAT bylaws, having an 'AMSAT organizational
membership' (Member Society, proper noun), eally just means you submitted an application and paid a fee. Any organization could do the same and would likely get accepted (membership-fees applied).
When you say """We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI.""". That's a red flag in my mind, and it begs the question, why? And i'm not actually asking you why, but i'm asking the membership to consider why this could be. My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at least the ones I know personally. So, there must be a difference or other information / circumstances.
Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code. Just imagine the number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to get rid of the permits.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 4:20 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com wrote:
Can you start your own amateur space organization?
You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better time, would have gone to AMSAT? The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and the ground station to go with it? The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds for them without their being diverted elsewhere? The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its 501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here, including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL and the majority of its own membership were barriers to the advancement of Amateur Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted, against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air than ever! Everybody won!
You don't achieve these things by backing down.
Thanks
Bruce
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joseph,
Somehow partly agree with you, seems that the elected directors we voted for and now opponents are not being able to sit around a table and resolved simple matters such as ego, generation conflict etc..
In the meantime US (ITU Americas Region) is behind particularly with QO-100, seems that AMSAT-DL had a better vision and also showing better results than AMSAT-NA, more working united.
Thus I tend to agree with you that we need new blood at the board which hopefully will have a plan and vision for the future (not easy, I agree) but at least the internal war should stop asap in order to achieve same.
My one cent input and opinion as a member of AMSAt-NA (and DL)
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jul 27, 2020, at 10:52 PM, Greg via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Joseph,
Agree….
The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn’t there. Why? Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and volunteer labor. It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests, not the organizations. That includes both sides.
Greg N3MVF
On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Patrick,
I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you please step down from being an AMSAT director? It's obviously not working out well for you (and others). I mean, we can all see why AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now.... This is a concrete reason to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend. Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and does not bring you much credibility in my book. These are the kinds of matters that professionals resolve privately. By sending this to the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work. This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and I personally do NOT thank you for it.
Honestly though, this is just getting stupid. Just because people are voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the people voted in are any good for the job or working with the organization. Or... even know how to work well with others. In any election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals that run under false-pretenses. Just look at the last Florida gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo, democracy.
The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step down, immediately. Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at virtuosity aside). Do us all a favor, step down from your positions please. This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
Thank You, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Hi.
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Text of forwarded letter is below
July 27, 2020
AMSAT Board Members Clayton Coleman, President
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled “AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses” posted on July 10, 2020 (“Letter”). Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard. On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their reputations.
The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that AMSAT is “under attack” by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have consistently worked to improve AMSAT – and have done nothing to attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities, finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization. While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my clients’ actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply not true that AMSAT as an organization is “under attack.” The broad dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms. Thompson’s and Mr. Stoddard’s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into question their integrity.
As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied access to AMSAT’s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors. They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT’s bylaws. One of the principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey the provisions of the organization’s governing documents. Rather than “disrupt and possibly defame” or “publicly attack the integrity and honor” of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this important fiduciary obligation.
You noted, “[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote” – and yet, we are not aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence of a Board meeting.
In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that “a poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard” and my clients both wish to create instead an “atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.” They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by the members to carry out that mandate.
With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT’s public website. Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this demand.
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely, Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
cc: Dr. Tom Clark Keith Baker, Jerry Buxton, Dr. Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, Martha Saragovitz, Robert Bankston, Drew Glasbrenner, Bruce Paige Michelle Thompson Patrick Stoddard _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 2020-07-27 11:44, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG, along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick and Michelle,
Well, you've definitely driven the nails into the coffin of your re-election campaign, and probably done the same for those in your cadre who are on the ballot now.
Being a leader means that sometimes things don't go your way and you just have to make the best of the current situation. Change takes time.
I'm not going to vote for people who chew up resources better spent on education, experimentation, and encouraging new amateur radio operators to join AMSAT.
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
participants (11)
-
Bruce Perens -
David Swanson -
GEO Badger -
Greg -
H. Stephen Nipper -
Jean Marc Momple -
Joseph Armbruster -
KA9QJG -
Michelle Thompson -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Zach Metzinger