No Directors are being muted, censored, or censured. Directors, Officers, and volunteers make statements about their work for the corporation on social media, blogs, or the AMSAT-BB. With or without regard for diplomacy, certain Directors have taken an approach to make their opinions public before bringing items up for discussion via the internal Board of Directors mailing list.
There is no majority or minority "party" at AMSAT. There are no political parties defined by AMSAT. Continued claims about "incumbents" sounds very divisive. All sitting Directors are incumbents.
AMSAT is about shared interest in amateur radio and space - not personal interests, vengeance, and politics.
Directors should be aware of how minutes of the Corporation work. The Secretary writes them, the Board approves them, and then they are made public. As of August 4th, the Secretary has not provided any draft minutes for meetings after February 4th.
The claim about not having any Board Meetings for an entire year is false. AMSAT has held three Board of Directors meetings plus an informal working session in 2020. There will be at least one more formal Board of Directors meeting before the 2020 Directors election concludes. The bylaws clearly state the mechanics of calling a Board of Directors meeting.
Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3), 2017 (4), 2016 (3) Ref: https://www.amsat.org/minutes-of-the-board-of-directors/
I refuse to engage in endless disputes via this email list out of respect for its members, AMSAT's mission, and my love for amateur radio. Despite exaggerated claims to the contrary, the reality is AMSAT remains committed to success with new and existing partners.
AMSAT succeeds as a team or fails as a team.
73 Clayton W5PFG
Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3), 2017 (4), 2016 (3)
Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more often than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more meetings of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs new guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are frustrated that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to have just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting is downhill and eventually you can’t coast any further and the ride is over.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
We've one meeting with reports and new business.
The others were extremely short "emergency" meetings. One, to nominate and elect a new president after Joe Spier resigned. No new business entertained. No reports. No minutes approved.
The other, solely to vote on the Covid loan. Multiple "reminders" that it was limited to 15 minutes. No new business entertained. No reports. No minutes approved.
It's not healthy to run a membership organization this way.
I have faith and optimism that it will get better with this election.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:17 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3), 2017 (4), 2016 (3)
Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more often than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more meetings of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs new guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are frustrated that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to have just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting is downhill and eventually you can’t coast any further and the ride is over.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Questions....
Michelle and Patrick, is there a need for an immediate meeting?
Jerry, Mark, Bruce, Drew, Tom, why don't any of you have joined two other directors in calling for more meetings or an immediate one? I'm sure at least two directors have items for the agenda.
Anyways, WE THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP elected all of you to run the organization! You decide to delegate your power to a group of officers (btw some of you are part of that same group but that's a different discussion) yet don't conduct regular business to supervise or discuss their work?
By the way it looks, seems like the BoD is working as a rubber stamp for whatever the officers decide.
Fernando, KF7R
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:45 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
We've one meeting with reports and new business.
The others were extremely short "emergency" meetings. One, to nominate and elect a new president after Joe Spier resigned. No new business entertained. No reports. No minutes approved.
The other, solely to vote on the Covid loan. Multiple "reminders" that it was limited to 15 minutes. No new business entertained. No reports. No minutes approved.
It's not healthy to run a membership organization this way.
I have faith and optimism that it will get better with this election.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:17 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org
wrote:
Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018
(3),
2017 (4), 2016 (3)
Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more
often
than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more
meetings
of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs
new
guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are
frustrated
that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to
have
just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting
is
downhill and eventually you can’t coast any further and the ride is over.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:49 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Questions....
Michelle and Patrick, is there a need for an immediate meeting?
Jerry, Mark, Bruce, Drew, Tom, why don't any of you have joined two other directors in calling for more meetings or an immediate one? I'm sure at least two directors have items for the agenda.
Anyways, WE THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP elected all of you to run the organization! You decide to delegate your power to a group of officers (btw some of you are part of that same group but that's a different discussion) yet don't conduct regular business to supervise or discuss their work?
By the way it looks, seems like the BoD is working as a rubber stamp for whatever the officers decide.
Fernando, KF7R
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On 8/5/2020 05:33, Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB wrote:
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
Well said Frank, and thank you!
The truth and importance of this cannot be overstated. It is, quite simply, spot on.
Perhaps my similar words to the Board and Officers have been taken with less or little confidence in what I might know about this in my experience as VPE. I ask you then, please pay attention and respect to Frank's words as drawn from his extensive experience with and within space agencies and space corporations.
Even in my six years of AMSAT VPE history the respect that we have built beginning with Fox-1A and continuing to this day with the GOLF satellites is seen in NASA's high regard of AMSAT for being "by the book" and reliable, with space corporations from the mission integrators orchestrating integration and safe flight to the corporations wishing to partner or help us in accessing space, and in working with government agencies from the armed forces to NOAA/CRSRA imaging to FCC licensing.
AMSAT's standing is, as you may know from some of your own life/job experiences, easily undone in a very short time by carelessness in our conduct or in our commitments that is in contrast to the work we have done that ultimately established and earned AMSAT their respect.
I join Frank here in again asking you all, please consider and understand the severity and impact of your words and actions no matter your title or work within AMSAT, support of AMSAT in being a member, or candidacy for a position with AMSAT.
Thank you,
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and other problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT <amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities must discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson mountain.michelle@gmail.com wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and other problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that, and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities must discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and
I
have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
functional
change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
AMSAT
has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
over
the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
release on
the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
of
the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
with
folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
AMSAT
is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
with
the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
chosen
not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
to
AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization, for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that, and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
and
I
have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
In
the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
functional
change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
AMSAT
has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
donated
support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
over
the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
release on
the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
of
the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
with
folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over
your
grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
lose
space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
should
have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
AMSAT
is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
with
the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
have
joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
chosen
not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
to
AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi All-I really wish all this BS would stop. You should all go out to the back shed and just deal with it. I just want to play with satellites and all the goodies around them. Take your interpersonal relationships and------- 73 Bob W7LRD
On 08/05/2020 1:01 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization, for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that, and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
and
I
have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
In
the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
functional
change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
AMSAT
has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
donated
support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
over
the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
release on
the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
of
the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
with
folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over
your
grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
lose
space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
should
have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
AMSAT
is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
with
the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
have
joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
chosen
not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
to
AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:59 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI?
I am not on the ORI board and do not write their strategy. My only purpose here is the advancement of Amateur Satellites, which in my sincere opinion is not being carried out well by AMSAT at the moment.
Why weren't those [grants] pursued through AMSAT?
I believe a *large *personal donation meant for the ground-station project was otherwise allocated and failed to reach the project. I was not directly involved in the transaction, but have heard from the donor and the project. Being able to direct donations where intended was one, but not the only, impetus for the formation of ORI.
I work on many projects. Participating in the democratic process of AMSAT's board election is just one. It is one where members are expected to participate, Joseph, and your attempts to dissuade me continue to appear undemocratic and in opposition to a member's right to express civil free speech regarding the operation of the organization and the appropriateness of its directors for re-election.
Thanks
Bruce
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization, for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that, and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
and
I
have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
In
the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
functional
change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
AMSAT
has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
donated
support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
over
the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
release on
the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
of
the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
with
folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over
your
grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
lose
space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
should
have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
AMSAT
is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
for
a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
with
the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
have
joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
chosen
not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
to
AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking to go away :-) ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization, for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly
help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
*involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state
of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
AMSAT
issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
that,
and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
course
that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
membership
and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established
entities
must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
and
other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
>>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
drag
ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
ARISS,
and
I
have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
name.
In
the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
functional
change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks
that
AMSAT
has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
donated
support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
AMSAT
over
the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
release on
the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
of
the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to
work
with
folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get
over
your
grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
AMSAT
lose
space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
decades to
build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO ARISS-USA Executive Director AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
should
have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
March.
- Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
AMSAT
President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
- After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
control
measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
not
discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
appears
AMSAT
is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
- I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for
a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
notes
regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review
them
with
the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
have
joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
has
chosen
not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues,
during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
to
AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
eventually
:-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joseph,
This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com wrote:
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking to go away :-) ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
you
and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization, for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly
help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that
helped
developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
*involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
years
of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and
looses
members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
state of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
AMSAT
issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
that,
and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
several
weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
course
that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
membership
and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established
entities
must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
Probably
both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
Understanding
establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
and
other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for
> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > > I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
drag
> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle. > > In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
ARISS,
and
I
> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
sign
> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
name.
In
> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
functional
> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks
that
AMSAT
> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
donated
> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
AMSAT
over
> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
release on
> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
(6th
> article down). > > One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. > Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
mission
> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in > organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these > behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
of
> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to
work
with
> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get
over
your
> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
AMSAT
lose
> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
decades to
> build. > > 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO > ARISS-USA Executive Director > AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net > Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM > To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < > amsat-bb@amsat.org> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out? > > Fernando, > > Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
should
> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
March.
> > 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
legal
> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
AMSAT
> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month. > > 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
mid-March, I
> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
control
> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
not
> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
appears
AMSAT
> is in dire need of budgetary control measures. > > 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for
a
> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA
> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
notes
> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
review them
with
> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton. > > Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other
5
> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer
have
> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
has
chosen
> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues,
> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
to
> AMSAT members. > > Thank you. > > Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK > http://www.wd9ewk.net/ > Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > Opinions expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of
> AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
eventually
:-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't leave!" to my response. That's all i'm saying...
I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization, volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings results. I can not understand why such a group would continue to be involved with the organization. Your thoughts and opinions do not intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers or members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization. In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and productivity is disheartening and damaging.
Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and develops future satellite projects. It is a serious vote for the future of the organization in many, many ways. It's a vote that should support the engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects to-date. I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members, all of them and talk to them individually. Read what they have written, talk to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc... ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules, logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked documentation, etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to, ask explicitly! Ask who they are voting for. Talk to previous board members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the individuals getting stuff done. It's not hard, just do not read the opinions of others on the -bb (myself included). Make an informed decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it takes. Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the best interest of AMSAT. I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
73s & NM,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
Joseph,
This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking to go away :-) ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
you
and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
organization,
for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can
only
assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they
got
three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of
us
members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly
help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that
helped
developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
*involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
years
of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and
looses
members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
state of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection
of
the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
AMSAT
issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
that,
and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
several
weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
course
that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
membership
and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established
entities
must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
Probably
both AMSAT and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
Understanding
establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < mountain.michelle@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank sums up the problems very well. > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
and
other > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
happened.
> > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings. > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration. > > I am optimistic things can and will improve. > > -Michelle W5NYV > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < > amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
new
ARISS-USA >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. >> >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying
to drag
>> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle. >> >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
ARISS,
and
I >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
sign
>> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
name.
In
>> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks
that
AMSAT >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
donated
>> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had
with AMSAT
over >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
(6th
>> article down). >> >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
mission
>> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster
in
>> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue
these
>> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
of >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to
work
with >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get
over
your
>> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
AMSAT
lose
>> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
decades to
>> build. >> >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO >> ARISS-USA Executive Director >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM >> To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < >> amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out? >> >> Fernando, >> >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
there
should
>> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
March.
>> >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
legal
>> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
letter AMSAT
>> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month. >> >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
mid-March, I
>> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
control
>> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
has not
>> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
appears
AMSAT >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures. >> >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for
a >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
notes
>> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
review them
with >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton. >> >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
other 5
>> directors - including the two running for reelection this
summer -
have
>> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
has
chosen >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues,
>> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
to >> AMSAT members. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/ >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
>> Opinions expressed >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of
>> AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! >> Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
eventually
:-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
Well you kind of answered your own question. You don't understand why a group would be so disgruntled yet continue to be involved. Either they are all trolls or they care and want to change things in a way they truly believe is better. I don't doubt the incumbents have positive intentions and mean no harm... Mostly they do positive things, but they have done a few things I disagree with. You seem to be refusing to see why anyone could feel that way. Until then I guess it makes sense to just want it to go away.
As for your second paragraph, of course if you ask all the people who have been in charge for the last several years who did the things that got done, they will all point at each other. That is not the point. The point is, some people want to do new/different things that they haven't gotten an adequate chance to do.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 22:17 Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com wrote:
John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't leave!" to my response. That's all i'm saying...
I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization, volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings results. I can not understand why such a group would continue to be involved with the organization. Your thoughts and opinions do not intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers or members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization. In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and productivity is disheartening and damaging.
Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and develops future satellite projects. It is a serious vote for the future of the organization in many, many ways. It's a vote that should support the engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects to-date. I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members, all of them and talk to them individually. Read what they have written, talk to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc... ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules, logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked documentation, etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to, ask explicitly! Ask who they are voting for. Talk to previous board members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the individuals getting stuff done. It's not hard, just do not read the opinions of others on the -bb (myself included). Make an informed decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it takes. Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the best interest of AMSAT. I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
73s & NM,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
Joseph,
This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking to go away :-) ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
you
and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
organization,
for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can
only
assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they
got
three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of
us
members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop,
go
away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would
directly help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort
and
energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if
you
were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that
helped
developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
*involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
years
of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some
amazing,
amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and
looses
members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
state of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection
of
the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it
an AMSAT
issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
that,
and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
several
weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
course
that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
membership
and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
> I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled > very carefully. > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
entities
must > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
Probably
> both AMSAT > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
Understanding
> establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now
on.
> > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard > friendships) > > 73 > > Fernando KF7R > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < > mountain.michelle@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Frank sums up the problems very well. > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could
lose
> > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about
this and
> other > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
happened.
> > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings. > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration. > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve. > > > > -Michelle W5NYV > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < > > amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
> for > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
new
> ARISS-USA > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > >> > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying
to drag
> >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle. > >> > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
ARISS,
and > I > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
sign
> >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
name.
In > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.
The
> functional > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks
that
> AMSAT > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had
with AMSAT
> over > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the
press
> release on > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
(6th
> >> article down). > >> > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD. > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
mission
> >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster
in
> >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue
these
> >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
> of > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want
to work
> with > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get
over
your > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
AMSAT
lose > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
decades to
> >> build. > >> > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM > >> To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < > >> amsat-bb@amsat.org> > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out? > >> > >> Fernando, > >> > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
there
should > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end
of March.
> >> > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending
on legal
> >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
letter AMSAT
> >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month. > >> > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
control
> >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
has not
> >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
appears
> AMSAT > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures. > >> > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
for > a > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new > ARISS-USA > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
notes
> >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
review them
> with > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton. > >> > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
other 5
> >> directors - including the two running for reelection this
summer -
have > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings,
but has
> chosen > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues,
> >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
> to > >> AMSAT members. > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/ > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
> >> Opinions expressed > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views
of > >> AMSAT-NA. > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
> program! > >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions > expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
> AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
eventually
:-) _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
Well said John.
In the mean time we're crippled with a President who refuses to discuss these issues in the only forum we have where can express our views, supposedly out of 'respect' for Amsat's membership.
It's the membership's prerogative to speak out when we don't like decisions the Corporation makes, and it's the President's job to listen to the members and engage in ongoing discussions...not issue corporate edicts and then disengage from from the membership.
Ken Alexander, VE3HLS So Phisai, Thailand Blog: bueng-ken.com
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:05 John Brier via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Well you kind of answered your own question. You don't understand why a group would be so disgruntled yet continue to be involved. Either they are all trolls or they care and want to change things in a way they truly believe is better. I don't doubt the incumbents have positive intentions and mean no harm... Mostly they do positive things, but they have done a few things I disagree with. You seem to be refusing to see why anyone could feel that way. Until then I guess it makes sense to just want it to go away.
As for your second paragraph, of course if you ask all the people who have been in charge for the last several years who did the things that got done, they will all point at each other. That is not the point. The point is, some people want to do new/different things that they haven't gotten an adequate chance to do.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 22:17 Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com wrote:
John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't
leave!"
to my response. That's all i'm saying...
I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization, volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings results. I can not understand why such a group would continue to be involved with the organization. Your thoughts and opinions do not intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers or members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization. In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and productivity
is
disheartening and damaging.
Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and develops future satellite projects. It is a serious vote for the future
of
the organization in many, many ways. It's a vote that should support the engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects to-date. I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members,
all
of them and talk to them individually. Read what they have written, talk to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc... ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules, logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked documentation, etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to, ask explicitly! Ask who they are voting for. Talk to previous board members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the individuals getting stuff done. It's not hard, just do not read the opinions of others on the -bb (myself included). Make an informed decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it takes. Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the best interest of AMSAT. I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
73s & NM,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
Joseph,
This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking to go away :-) ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing
ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative
that
you
and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
organization,
for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can
only
assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they
got
three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those
pursued
through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is
quite
sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many
of
us
members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop,
go
away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would
directly help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort
and
energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if
you
were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that
helped
developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
*involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
years
of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some
amazing,
amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and
looses
members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
state of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a
reflection
of
the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
> It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
> publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it
an AMSAT
> issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
that,
> and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
several
> weeks ago. > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
course
> that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
membership
> and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and > appropriate within the context of an election. > > Thanks > > Bruce > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < > amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must
be
> handled > > very carefully. > > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
entities
> must > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
Probably
> > both AMSAT > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
Understanding
> > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now
on.
> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business
safeguard
> > friendships) > > > > 73 > > > > Fernando KF7R > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < > > mountain.michelle@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well. > > > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could
lose
> > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about
this and
> > other > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
happened.
> > > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings. > > > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration. > > > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve. > > > > > > -Michelle W5NYV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < > > > amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: > > > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
> > for > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
new
> > ARISS-USA > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > > >> > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying
to drag
> > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle. > > >> > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
ARISS,
> and > > I > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
sign
> > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the
ARISS
name.
> In > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.
The
> > functional > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the
tasks
that
> > AMSAT > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for
this
> donated > > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had
with AMSAT
> > over > > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the
press
> > release on > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
(6th
> > >> article down). > > >> > > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is
HARD.
> > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
mission
> > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for
disaster
in
> > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue
these
> > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
> > of > > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want
to work
> > with > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to
get
over
> your > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
AMSAT
> lose > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
decades to
> > >> build. > > >> > > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < > > >> amsat-bb@amsat.org> > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out? > > >> > > >> Fernando, > > >> > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
there
> should > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end
of March.
> > >> > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending
on legal
> > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
letter AMSAT
> > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month. > > >> > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in > mid-March, I > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
control
> > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
has not
> > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
appears
> > AMSAT > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures. > > >> > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
calling
> for > > a > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
new
> > ARISS-USA > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather
his
notes
> > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
review them
> > with > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton. > > >> > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
other 5
> > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this
summer -
> have > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings,
but has
> > chosen > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and
other
issues,
> > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
> > to > > >> AMSAT members. > > >> > > >> Thank you. > > >> > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/ > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
> > >> Opinions expressed > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views
> of > > >> AMSAT-NA. > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
> > program! > > >> Subscription settings: > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
> Opinions > > expressed > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
> > AMSAT-NA. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
> program! > > Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > > > -- > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
eventually
> :-) > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
> expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
> AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Kenneth,
It doesn't look like the president is crippling the organization, reference amsat-bb email "Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020."
We're in the United States Ken and sadly a lot of people in the country are attorney/sue-happy and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or suppression of speech. If you want to see how bad this can get here, look up what Judy Munro-Leighton did to Brett Kavanaugh,when he was being appointed to the supreme court. The sad reality right now is that anyone can sue anyone over anything and ruin everything someone has worked for, over literally, Nothing. On the flip side, anyone that fears any form of legal action against them, has to lawyer-up, in an effort to learn the law, gather information and protect themselves.
When members or BOD members start hiring attorneys to write kind letters to other members (like the one posted publically to the -bb), that's not an invitation to engage in productive discussion. That's a clear threat of legal action. I mean, when's the last time You hired an attorney to have them write a letter on your behalf? I guess some people have time for that nonsense... I would venture to say that for most of the good keep-your-head-down-and-hack kindof engineers, if they receive a letter like that while working with at a volunteer group, they are more likely to just want to quit and move on and do something else with their life, rather than deal with the potential social/financial headache or having their names dragged through the mud unnecessarily. That just means it's more of a push to get people to quit/leave... resulting in a potential loss of talent for AMSAT. Which sucks.
I haven't been involved in any of the BOD meetings but I can see how if it's gotten to the point to where they need to walk on eggshells the entire meeting over fear of legal actions, then the activity comes to a halt. Then people on the opposing side turn around and say "Hoorah! Hoorah! The board isn't doing anything, look at how bad they are!!"... When in fact, that's not the case at all, it's all really a symptom, of another problem... From a third-party perspective, that's what this all looks like to me.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:33 AM Kenneth P Alexander ve3hls@gmail.com wrote:
Well said John.
In the mean time we're crippled with a President who refuses to discuss these issues in the only forum we have where can express our views, supposedly out of 'respect' for Amsat's membership.
It's the membership's prerogative to speak out when we don't like decisions the Corporation makes, and it's the President's job to listen to the members and engage in ongoing discussions...not issue corporate edicts and then disengage from from the membership.
Ken Alexander, VE3HLS So Phisai, Thailand Blog: bueng-ken.com
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:05 John Brier via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Well you kind of answered your own question. You don't understand why a group would be so disgruntled yet continue to be involved. Either they are all trolls or they care and want to change things in a way they truly believe is better. I don't doubt the incumbents have positive intentions and mean no harm... Mostly they do positive things, but they have done a few things I disagree with. You seem to be refusing to see why anyone could feel that way. Until then I guess it makes sense to just want it to go away.
As for your second paragraph, of course if you ask all the people who have been in charge for the last several years who did the things that got done, they will all point at each other. That is not the point. The point is, some people want to do new/different things that they haven't gotten an adequate chance to do.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 22:17 Joseph Armbruster josepharmbruster@gmail.com wrote:
John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't
leave!"
to my response. That's all i'm saying...
I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization, volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings results. I can not understand why such a group would continue to be involved with the organization. Your thoughts and opinions do not intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers
or
members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization. In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and
productivity is
disheartening and damaging.
Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and develops future satellite projects. It is a serious vote for the
future of
the organization in many, many ways. It's a vote that should support
the
engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects to-date. I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members,
all
of them and talk to them individually. Read what they have written,
talk
to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc... ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules, logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked
documentation,
etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to, ask explicitly! Ask who they are voting for. Talk to previous board members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the individuals getting stuff done. It's not hard, just do not read the opinions of others on the -bb (myself included). Make an informed decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it takes. Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the best interest of AMSAT. I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
73s & NM,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens bruce@perens.com wrote:
Joseph,
This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
Thanks BruceOn Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster < josepharmbruster@gmail.com> wrote:
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking to go away :-) ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers, Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com
wrote:
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing
ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote: > > Bruce, > > > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative
that
you > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization, > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only > assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say
they
got > three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those
pursued
> through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is
quite
> sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many
of
us > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just
stop,
go > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and > energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you > were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years > of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing, > amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these > individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a
reflection
of > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership. > > > Joseph Armbruster > > KJ4JIO > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> > wrote: > > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to
pursue
that, > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several > > weeks ago. > > > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and > > appropriate within the context of an election. > > > > Thanks > > > > Bruce > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB < > > amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: > > > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters
must be
> > handled > > > very carefully. > > > > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities > > must > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably > > > both AMSAT > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on. > > > > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business
safeguard
> > > friendships) > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > Fernando KF7R > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson < > > > mountain.michelle@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well. > > > > > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and > > > other > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened. > > > > > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings. > > > > > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration. > > > > > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve. > > > > > > > > -Michelle W5NYV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB < > > > > amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13
June,
calling > > > for > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of
the
new > > > ARISS-USA > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > > > >> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop
trying
to drag > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political
battle.
> > > >> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, > > and > > > I > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS
to
sign > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the
ARISS
name. > > In > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The > > > functional > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the
tasks
that > > > AMSAT > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for
this
> > donated > > > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT > > > over > > > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press > > > release on > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site
www.ariss.org
(6th > > > >> article down). > > > >> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is
HARD.
> > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission > > > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for
disaster
in > > > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your
space
missions > > > of > > > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work > > > with > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to
get
over > > your > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to
see
AMSAT > > lose > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to > > > >> build. > > > >> > > > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez framirezferrer@gmail.com; AMSAT < > > > >> amsat-bb@amsat.org> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out? > > > >> > > > >> Fernando, > > > >> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there > > should > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March. > > > >> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month. > > > >> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in > > mid-March, I > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and
budgetary
control > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending,
it
appears > > > AMSAT > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures. > > > >> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling > > for > > > a > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
new
> > > ARISS-USA > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT. > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather
his
notes > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them > > > with > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton. > > > >> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - > > have > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has > > > chosen > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and
other
issues, > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available > > > to > > > >> AMSAT members. > > > >> > > > >> Thank you. > > > >> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/ > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > > > >> Opinions expressed > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views > > of > > > >> AMSAT-NA. > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > > > program! > > > >> Subscription settings: > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
> > Opinions > > > expressed > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of > > > AMSAT-NA. > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
> > program! > > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually > > :-) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions > > expressed > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of > > AMSAT-NA. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or suppression of speech.
As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy, incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws. Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves, they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don’t see Michelle or Patrick ‘running off’ any volunteers. In reality, they are trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy incumbents.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
Jeff,
Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination. Falsely representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere) And, if you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific individuals take their time to do so... that says something. The reality is, AMSAT has good relationships.
I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it goes against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the same time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the 'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to do so. So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26 letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT. All I can say about that is, AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else that I have known since 2008... That says something. Oh, not just me, but tons of other people. People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done. I will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and other observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to have a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate. Patrick seems like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person. But based on the legal letter being propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is absolutely not on the board. I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers. From a practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not right to me. This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's damaging.
With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just shows that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind closed doors. Handling issues like this should be done professionally to preserve the integrity of the organization. That is a huge issue for me. It's obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the 'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have contributed, helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or threats, for anything... This is all unfair and not something I want to see individuals on the board doing. I want to see the engineering stack taken to the next level. A pile of work went into developing the stack that went into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for granted and that level of effort should not be diminished. Oh, and lots of those in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently left out. It seems like everything that's politically been going on since 2018 has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically. Jeff, I don't really trust anyone you are recommending. Trust is extremely important to me. People do not trust groups... they trust individuals. And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal council letters. If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the problem. Just imagine what will happen with external groups. Are they going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?
Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or suppression of speech.
As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy, incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws. Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves, they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don’t see Michelle or Patrick ‘running off’ any volunteers. In reality, they are trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy incumbents.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
In line response below..
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 15:21 Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Michelle seems like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person.
If you watch some of her Phase 4 report videos you will see she is very technical.
https://youtu.be/_ZNshry3sZU https://youtu.be/ZxS1UTI0_xs
73, John Brier KG4AKV
Jeff, Everything from your wannabe bod group is so negative, you can't just let anything go or keep it to what you might want to accomplish, every posting has to be disparaging to the current members and that is wrong. With this much negativity I wonder how much vacuum do you people pull.
I have been happy with the way AMSAT has been run, and as for the number of meetings, they only need to have enough to accomplish their goals. Nothing is worse than having meetings just to say you had one.
Kevin WA7FWF 19623
On 8/4/2020 3:15 PM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3), 2017 (4), 2016 (3)
Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more often than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more meetings of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs new guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are frustrated that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to have just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting is downhill and eventually you can’t coast any further and the ride is over.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
This appears to be the way that the AMSAT-NA bod currently operates -- they meet to show they had a meeting, then slip back into hiding! How is that in any way healthy for ANY organization???
NO 501(c)3 organization can LEGALLY operate that way and THAT is what the contention seems to be all about!
Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
..... Nothing is worse than having meetings just to say you had one.
Kevin WA7FWF 19623
Jeff,
Regardless of the outcome of the election, I think the time will come when the tables are turned. We will be taking the high road when that happens. But I personally will find it difficult to forget how these folks conducted themselves.
Thanks
Bruce
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 5:35 PM Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
This appears to be the way that the AMSAT-NA bod currently operates -- they meet to show they had a meeting, then slip back into hiding! How is that in any way healthy for ANY organization???
NO 501(c)3 organization can LEGALLY operate that way and THAT is what the contention seems to be all about!
Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
..... Nothing is worse than having meetings just to say you had one.
Kevin WA7FWF 19623
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (14)
-
73 Bob W7LRD -
Bruce Perens -
Clayton Coleman W5PFG -
Fernando Ramirez -
Jeff Johns -
Jeff Moore -
Jerry Buxton -
John Brier -
Joseph Armbruster -
ka3hdo＠gmail.com -
Kenneth P Alexander -
Kevin -
Michelle Thompson -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)