Help with SATPC32 (maybe groups) please
Hi Everyone,
I've used SatPC32 for a number of years, but I have been using it in "simpleton" mode, it would seem. Now that AO-73 is in the "cubesat.txt" keps file rather than amateur, I apparently have to take the next step in my education about this program.
Here the current general question: How do "groups" work. I have googled, and the term seems to be used both for Celestrak groups and for the groups in SatPC32 (e.g. Diverse, Standard, etc). I mean the SatPC32 groups. What I want to do is to have a number of satellites selectable with the A,B,C... buttons in the lower right. But right now, I have to pull down the satellites menu and select "cubesat.txt" to get AO-73 and "amateur.txt" to get, say, VO-52 and SO-50. And whenever I switch to a new keps file, all the satellites I have selected as current for the previous file disappear from the right column.
Somehow, I suspect that 'groups' are the answer to this, but I can never get the "edit" function under groups to do anything terribly useful. It looks like I can edit "standard", for example, so that if selected, it uses the satellites selected from amateur.txt or cubesat.txt but not both.
Ok, so when I get into a pickle like this, it is usually because I don't understand the concept or the model that the program is using. So rather than (or as well as) "click x, select y, edit xxx.txt" the kind of help I hope I can get would be include "how are groups supposed to be used?" And by the way, I have read the manual, and it again seems to assume that I know what groups are supposed to be.
Thanks in advance,
Burns, W2BFJ
Hi Burns,
There are two issues here, groups and source files. In this case, the groups are a part of SatPC32. They have names like Standard, Diverse, NOAA, etc. The newest version of SatPC32 allows you to create your own group names.
Then there are the source files from CelesTrak which group satellites by function. The CelesTrak groupings are things like amateur.txt, cubesat.txt, noaa.txt, and tle-new.txt for launches in the preceding 30 days. For instance, after launch AO-73 was in the tle-new file at first, and either has or will soon be moved to the amateur.txt file. Note the amsat.all file is created by merging the data from several source into ones which are of interest specifically to hams. In one sense, that is the most convenient, but unlike the Trak files it is only updated weekly.
Now, in SatPC32 you can assign a source file to a group. For instance, amateur.txt to Standard, tle-new.txt to Diverse, etc. One and only one source, though there are manual ways to merge them. You only need to do this assignment once. So assume you have assigned the tle-new.txt to Diverse, and then selected the satellites you want, including AO-73. To get AO-73 you select Satellites, then Groups, then Diverse and OK it, and you will then have AO-73 and whatever other new satellites displayed. Since Diverse is not the default group, you will need to select the group once each time you start SatPC32, but not the source file. Note that when AO-73 moves to amateur.txt, it will autmatically become available in the Standard list, assuming you have assigned amateur.txt as the Standard source file.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org <[mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Burns Fisher <Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 5:08 PM <To: AMSAT BB <Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with SATPC32 (maybe groups) please < <Hi Everyone, < <I've used SatPC32 for a number of years, but I have been using it in <"simpleton" mode, it would seem. Now that AO-73 is in the <"cubesat.txt" <keps file rather than amateur, I apparently have to take the <next step in <my education about this program. < <Here the current general question: How do "groups" work. I <have googled, <and the term seems to be used both for Celestrak groups and <for the groups <in SatPC32 (e.g. Diverse, Standard, etc). I mean the SatPC32 <groups. What <I want to do is to have a number of satellites selectable with <the A,B,C... <buttons in the lower right. But right now, I have to pull down the <satellites menu and select "cubesat.txt" to get AO-73 and <"amateur.txt" to <get, say, VO-52 and SO-50. And whenever I switch to a new <keps file, all <the satellites I have selected as current for the previous <file disappear <from the right column. < <Somehow, I suspect that 'groups' are the answer to this, but I <can never <get the "edit" function under groups to do anything terribly <useful. It <looks like I can edit "standard", for example, so that if <selected, it uses <the satellites selected from amateur.txt or cubesat.txt but not both. < <Ok, so when I get into a pickle like this, it is usually <because I don't <understand the concept or the model that the program is using. < So rather <than (or as well as) "click x, select y, edit xxx.txt" the <kind of help I <hope I can get would be include "how are groups supposed to be <used?" And <by the way, I have read the manual, and it again seems to assume that I <know what groups are supposed to be. < <Thanks in advance, < <Burns, W2BFJ <_______________________________________________ <Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of <the author. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur <satellite program! <Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <
Hi Alan,
Ok, so let me play this back. First, I understand the source files. And I think I understand now that in a sense "groups" are aliases for the source files. I can set it up so that "Diverse" is kind of the same as tle.new if I wish. I'm really not sure what good that is, but ok. And I do understand that "standard" is the default group when you start it up.
And short of manually mixing source files, there is no way to assign the lower right letters to satellites in different files.
Do I mostly have that right?
By the way, it appears that AO-73 has already moved out of tle-new.txt but it moved into cubesat.txt, not amateur.txt. That's why I wanted to select one from cubesat and others from amateur. Maybe it will move again. Somehow 'cubesat' seems like an odd grouping. The other Celestrak groups are by function or source (NOAA, amateur, etc) but cubesat is by form. Anyway...
Thanks for all the help and 73,
Burns W2BFJ
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Alan wa4sca@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Burns,
There are two issues here, groups and source files. In this case, the groups are a part of SatPC32. They have names like Standard, Diverse, NOAA, etc. The newest version of SatPC32 allows you to create your own group names.
Then there are the source files from CelesTrak which group satellites by function. The CelesTrak groupings are things like amateur.txt, cubesat.txt, noaa.txt, and tle-new.txt for launches in the preceding 30 days. For instance, after launch AO-73 was in the tle-new file at first, and either has or will soon be moved to the amateur.txt file. Note the amsat.all file is created by merging the data from several source into ones which are of interest specifically to hams. In one sense, that is the most convenient, but unlike the Trak files it is only updated weekly.
Now, in SatPC32 you can assign a source file to a group. For instance, amateur.txt to Standard, tle-new.txt to Diverse, etc. One and only one source, though there are manual ways to merge them. You only need to do this assignment once. So assume you have assigned the tle-new.txt to Diverse, and then selected the satellites you want, including AO-73. To get AO-73 you select Satellites, then Groups, then Diverse and OK it, and you will then have AO-73 and whatever other new satellites displayed. Since Diverse is not the default group, you will need to select the group once each time you start SatPC32, but not the source file. Note that when AO-73 moves to amateur.txt, it will autmatically become available in the Standard list, assuming you have assigned amateur.txt as the Standard source file.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org <[mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Burns Fisher <Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 5:08 PM <To: AMSAT BB <Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with SATPC32 (maybe groups) please < <Hi Everyone, < <I've used SatPC32 for a number of years, but I have been using it in <"simpleton" mode, it would seem. Now that AO-73 is in the <"cubesat.txt" <keps file rather than amateur, I apparently have to take the <next step in <my education about this program. < <Here the current general question: How do "groups" work. I <have googled, <and the term seems to be used both for Celestrak groups and <for the groups <in SatPC32 (e.g. Diverse, Standard, etc). I mean the SatPC32 <groups. What <I want to do is to have a number of satellites selectable with <the A,B,C... <buttons in the lower right. But right now, I have to pull down the <satellites menu and select "cubesat.txt" to get AO-73 and <"amateur.txt" to <get, say, VO-52 and SO-50. And whenever I switch to a new <keps file, all <the satellites I have selected as current for the previous <file disappear <from the right column. < <Somehow, I suspect that 'groups' are the answer to this, but I <can never <get the "edit" function under groups to do anything terribly <useful. It <looks like I can edit "standard", for example, so that if <selected, it uses <the satellites selected from amateur.txt or cubesat.txt but not both. < <Ok, so when I get into a pickle like this, it is usually <because I don't <understand the concept or the model that the program is using. < So rather <than (or as well as) "click x, select y, edit xxx.txt" the <kind of help I <hope I can get would be include "how are groups supposed to be <used?" And <by the way, I have read the manual, and it again seems to assume that I <know what groups are supposed to be. < <Thanks in advance, < <Burns, W2BFJ <_______________________________________________ <Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of <the author. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur <satellite program! <Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <
Burns,
Sounds good. There are various ways to combine the source files, but they are all external to SatPC32. I have just gotten so used to using different groups that my fingers are already programmed with that macro. :)
I like the description of groups as aliases! I will steal that for future explanations.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: Burns Fisher [mailto:burns@fisher.cc] <Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:06 PM <To: Alan Biddle <Cc: AMSAT BB <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Help with SATPC32 (maybe groups) please < <Hi Alan, < <Ok, so let me play this back. First, I understand the source <files. And I think I understand now that in a sense "groups" <are aliases for the source files. I can set it up so that <"Diverse" is kind of the same as tle.new if I wish. I'm <really not sure what good that is, but ok. And I do <understand that "standard" is the default group when you start it up. < <And short of manually mixing source files, there is no way to <assign the lower right letters to satellites in different files. < <Do I mostly have that right? < <By the way, it appears that AO-73 has already moved out of <tle-new.txt but it moved into cubesat.txt, not amateur.txt. <That's why I wanted to select one from cubesat and others from <amateur. Maybe it will move again. Somehow 'cubesat' seems <like an odd grouping. The other Celestrak groups are by <function or source (NOAA, amateur, etc) but cubesat is by <form. Anyway... < <Thanks for all the help and 73, < <Burns W2BFJ < < <On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Alan wa4sca@gmail.com wrote: < < < Hi Burns, < < There are two issues here, groups and source files. In <this case, the groups are a part of SatPC32. < They have names like Standard, Diverse, NOAA, etc. The <newest version of SatPC32 allows you to create < your own group names. < < Then there are the source files from CelesTrak which <group satellites by function. The CelesTrak < groupings are things like amateur.txt, cubesat.txt, <noaa.txt, and tle-new.txt for launches in the < preceding 30 days. For instance, after launch AO-73 <was in the tle-new file at first, and either has < or will soon be moved to the amateur.txt file. Note <the amsat.all file is created by merging the data < from several source into ones which are of interest <specifically to hams. In one sense, that is the < most convenient, but unlike the Trak files it is only <updated weekly. < < Now, in SatPC32 you can assign a source file to a <group. For instance, amateur.txt to Standard, < tle-new.txt to Diverse, etc. One and only one source, <though there are manual ways to merge them. < You only need to do this assignment once. So assume <you have assigned the tle-new.txt to Diverse, and < then selected the satellites you want, including AO-73. < To get AO-73 you select Satellites, then < Groups, then Diverse and OK it, and you will then have <AO-73 and whatever other new satellites < displayed. Since Diverse is not the default group, you <will need to select the group once each time < you start SatPC32, but not the source file. Note that <when AO-73 moves to amateur.txt, it will < autmatically become available in the Standard list, <assuming you have assigned amateur.txt as the < Standard source file. < < 73s, < < Alan < WA4SCA < < < < <-----Original Message----- < <From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org < <[mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Burns Fisher < <Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 5:08 PM < < <To: AMSAT BB < <Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with SATPC32 (maybe groups) please < < < < <Hi Everyone, < < < <I've used SatPC32 for a number of years, but I have <been using it in < <"simpleton" mode, it would seem. Now that AO-73 is in the < <"cubesat.txt" < <keps file rather than amateur, I apparently have to take the < <next step in < <my education about this program. < < < <Here the current general question: How do "groups" work. I < <have googled, < <and the term seems to be used both for Celestrak groups and < <for the groups < <in SatPC32 (e.g. Diverse, Standard, etc). I mean the SatPC32 < <groups. What < <I want to do is to have a number of satellites selectable with < <the A,B,C... < <buttons in the lower right. But right now, I have to <pull down the < <satellites menu and select "cubesat.txt" to get AO-73 and < <"amateur.txt" to < <get, say, VO-52 and SO-50. And whenever I switch to a new < <keps file, all < <the satellites I have selected as current for the previous < <file disappear < <from the right column. < < < <Somehow, I suspect that 'groups' are the answer to this, but I < <can never < <get the "edit" function under groups to do anything terribly < <useful. It < <looks like I can edit "standard", for example, so that if < <selected, it uses < <the satellites selected from amateur.txt or <cubesat.txt but not both. < < < <Ok, so when I get into a pickle like this, it is usually < <because I don't < <understand the concept or the model that the program is using. < < So rather < <than (or as well as) "click x, select y, edit xxx.txt" the < <kind of help I < <hope I can get would be include "how are groups supposed to be < <used?" And < <by the way, I have read the manual, and it again seems <to assume that I < <know what groups are supposed to be. < < < <Thanks in advance, < < < <Burns, W2BFJ < < <_______________________________________________ < <Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of < <the author. < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur < <satellite program! < <Subscription settings: <http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < < < < < < <
Oops...I just checked again. Looks like DNEPR OBJECT AE is now in *both* amateur.txt and in cubesat.txt. I'll update amateur and see if I get it.
73,
Burns W2BFJ
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Alan wa4sca@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Burns,
There are two issues here, groups and source files. In this case, the groups are a part of SatPC32. They have names like Standard, Diverse, NOAA, etc. The newest version of SatPC32 allows you to create your own group names.
Then there are the source files from CelesTrak which group satellites by function. The CelesTrak groupings are things like amateur.txt, cubesat.txt, noaa.txt, and tle-new.txt for launches in the preceding 30 days. For instance, after launch AO-73 was in the tle-new file at first, and either has or will soon be moved to the amateur.txt file. Note the amsat.all file is created by merging the data from several source into ones which are of interest specifically to hams. In one sense, that is the most convenient, but unlike the Trak files it is only updated weekly.
Now, in SatPC32 you can assign a source file to a group. For instance, amateur.txt to Standard, tle-new.txt to Diverse, etc. One and only one source, though there are manual ways to merge them. You only need to do this assignment once. So assume you have assigned the tle-new.txt to Diverse, and then selected the satellites you want, including AO-73. To get AO-73 you select Satellites, then Groups, then Diverse and OK it, and you will then have AO-73 and whatever other new satellites displayed. Since Diverse is not the default group, you will need to select the group once each time you start SatPC32, but not the source file. Note that when AO-73 moves to amateur.txt, it will autmatically become available in the Standard list, assuming you have assigned amateur.txt as the Standard source file.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org <[mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Burns Fisher <Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 5:08 PM <To: AMSAT BB <Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with SATPC32 (maybe groups) please < <Hi Everyone, < <I've used SatPC32 for a number of years, but I have been using it in <"simpleton" mode, it would seem. Now that AO-73 is in the <"cubesat.txt" <keps file rather than amateur, I apparently have to take the <next step in <my education about this program. < <Here the current general question: How do "groups" work. I <have googled, <and the term seems to be used both for Celestrak groups and <for the groups <in SatPC32 (e.g. Diverse, Standard, etc). I mean the SatPC32 <groups. What <I want to do is to have a number of satellites selectable with <the A,B,C... <buttons in the lower right. But right now, I have to pull down the <satellites menu and select "cubesat.txt" to get AO-73 and <"amateur.txt" to <get, say, VO-52 and SO-50. And whenever I switch to a new <keps file, all <the satellites I have selected as current for the previous <file disappear <from the right column. < <Somehow, I suspect that 'groups' are the answer to this, but I <can never <get the "edit" function under groups to do anything terribly <useful. It <looks like I can edit "standard", for example, so that if <selected, it uses <the satellites selected from amateur.txt or cubesat.txt but not both. < <Ok, so when I get into a pickle like this, it is usually <because I don't <understand the concept or the model that the program is using. < So rather <than (or as well as) "click x, select y, edit xxx.txt" the <kind of help I <hope I can get would be include "how are groups supposed to be <used?" And <by the way, I have read the manual, and it again seems to assume that I <know what groups are supposed to be. < <Thanks in advance, < <Burns, W2BFJ <_______________________________________________ <Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of <the author. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur <satellite program! <Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <
Thanks to everyone...I've gotten a lot of help from many people, including Erich Eichmann the author. I thought it would be nice close of this thread with the model I now have in my head, confirmed by Erich.
Here is what I think I really missed: There is *always* a SatPC32 group active, and it is the group that defines which satellites are chosen for display in the ABC buttons. You could have multiple SatPC32 groups associated with the same data file, but each with different satellites chosen, if that is what you wanted. Then you select a different group to get the different configuration. But (the key to me) is that you can not use a group to chose satellites from multiple different data files at the same time. And you don't really chose a data file for display without it being associated with a group.
Erich also pointed out to me that there are 4 different configurations (chosen by setup) which essentially multiply by 4 the number of different groups that are available.
Thanks again to everyone. And in case anyone missed it, AO-73 (named DNEPR OBJECT AE - As in 'the AE35 unit') is now in Celestrak's amateur.txt and also in 'nasa.all' which SatPC32 sources from AMSAT.
("HAL http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0706937/?ref_=tt_trv_qu: I've just picked up a fault in the AE35 unit. It's going to go 100% failure in 72 hours.")
73,
Burns W2BFJ
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Burns Fisher burns@fisher.cc wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I've used SatPC32 for a number of years, but I have been using it in "simpleton" mode, it would seem. Now that AO-73 is in the "cubesat.txt" keps file rather than amateur, I apparently have to take the next step in my education about this program.
Here the current general question: How do "groups" work. I have googled, and the term seems to be used both for Celestrak groups and for the groups in SatPC32 (e.g. Diverse, Standard, etc). I mean the SatPC32 groups. What I want to do is to have a number of satellites selectable with the A,B,C... buttons in the lower right. But right now, I have to pull down the satellites menu and select "cubesat.txt" to get AO-73 and "amateur.txt" to get, say, VO-52 and SO-50. And whenever I switch to a new keps file, all the satellites I have selected as current for the previous file disappear from the right column.
Somehow, I suspect that 'groups' are the answer to this, but I can never get the "edit" function under groups to do anything terribly useful. It looks like I can edit "standard", for example, so that if selected, it uses the satellites selected from amateur.txt or cubesat.txt but not both.
Ok, so when I get into a pickle like this, it is usually because I don't understand the concept or the model that the program is using. So rather than (or as well as) "click x, select y, edit xxx.txt" the kind of help I hope I can get would be include "how are groups supposed to be used?" And by the way, I have read the manual, and it again seems to assume that I know what groups are supposed to be.
Thanks in advance,
Burns, W2BFJ
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Burns Fisher