SatPC32 error "Zugriffsveletzug"("access violation")
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
As of this morning, multiple users are getting download fail messages when trying to update Keps in SatPC32. It’s occurring on both nasa.bare and nasa.all. Also, I noticed last night, that my tracker said there were no Keps for the ISS when I tried to load them from Amsat. Had to get them from Celestrack instead. Anyone know what’s going on with the Kep files? de KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 5:02 AM, Erich Eichmann erich.eichmann@t-online.de wrote:
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
-----------------------------------------------------------
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As of 1418 UTC, I was able to download both nasabare and nasa.all in SatPC32. I also looked manually and there was exactly one copy each for ISS and NO-84. Perhaps it was being fixed when several people tried? Or perhaps there is a problem with the URL in some nameservers but not all?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:53 AM crohtun via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
As of this morning, multiple users are getting download fail messages when trying to update Keps in SatPC32. It’s occurring on both nasa.bare and nasa.all.
Also, I noticed last night, that my tracker said there were no Keps for the ISS when I tried to load them from Amsat. Had to get them from Celestrack instead.
Anyone know what’s going on with the Kep files?
de KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 5:02 AM, Erich Eichmann < erich.eichmann@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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Sorry, that last was from Burns, WB1FJ
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 10:21 AM Burns Fisher wb1fj-bb@fisher.cc wrote:
As of 1418 UTC, I was able to download both nasabare and nasa.all in SatPC32. I also looked manually and there was exactly one copy each for ISS and NO-84. Perhaps it was being fixed when several people tried? Or perhaps there is a problem with the URL in some nameservers but not all?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:53 AM crohtun via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
As of this morning, multiple users are getting download fail messages when trying to update Keps in SatPC32. It’s occurring on both nasa.bare and nasa.all.
Also, I noticed last night, that my tracker said there were no Keps for the ISS when I tried to load them from Amsat. Had to get them from Celestrack instead.
Anyone know what’s going on with the Kep files?
de KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 5:02 AM, Erich Eichmann < erich.eichmann@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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I have had several people report issues with downloading nasabase.txt into klatrack. So there is definitely something going on.
73 Chris
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 10:24 Burns Fisher wb1fj-bb@fisher.cc wrote:
Sorry, that last was from Burns, WB1FJ
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 10:21 AM Burns Fisher wb1fj-bb@fisher.cc wrote:
As of 1418 UTC, I was able to download both nasabare and nasa.all in SatPC32. I also looked manually and there was exactly one copy each for ISS and NO-84. Perhaps it was being fixed when several people tried? Or perhaps there is a problem with the URL in some nameservers but not all?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:53 AM crohtun via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
As of this morning, multiple users are getting download fail messages when trying to update Keps in SatPC32. It’s occurring on both nasa.bare and nasa.all.
Also, I noticed last night, that my tracker said there were no Keps for the ISS when I tried to load them from Amsat. Had to get them from Celestrack instead.
Anyone know what’s going on with the Kep files?
de KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 5:02 AM, Erich Eichmann < erich.eichmann@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Good Evening,
No issue using nasa.all today about 10 birds copied fine.
May be its only with nasabare.txt.
Just in case this info may be helpful to debug.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Mar 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Chris Thompson chrisethompson@gmail.com wrote:
I have had several people report issues with downloading nasabase.txt into klatrack. So there is definitely something going on.
73 Chris
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 10:24 Burns Fisher wb1fj-bb@fisher.cc wrote: Sorry, that last was from Burns, WB1FJ
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 10:21 AM Burns Fisher wb1fj-bb@fisher.cc wrote: As of 1418 UTC, I was able to download both nasabare and nasa.all in SatPC32. I also looked manually and there was exactly one copy each for ISS and NO-84. Perhaps it was being fixed when several people tried? Or perhaps there is a problem with the URL in some nameservers but not all?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:53 AM crohtun via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: As of this morning, multiple users are getting download fail messages when trying to update Keps in SatPC32. It’s occurring on both nasa.bare and nasa.all.
Also, I noticed last night, that my tracker said there were no Keps for the ISS when I tried to load them from Amsat. Had to get them from Celestrack instead.
Anyone know what’s going on with the Kep files?
de KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 5:02 AM, Erich Eichmann <erich.eichmann@t-online.de mailto:erich.eichmann@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
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View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
The problems have since cleared up on their own. I wasn’t the only getting the errors.
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Friday, March 19, 2021, 9:53 AM, crohtun via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
As of this morning, multiple users are getting download fail messages when trying to update Keps in SatPC32. It’s occurring on both nasa.bare and nasa.all. Also, I noticed last night, that my tracker said there were no Keps for the ISS when I tried to load them from Amsat. Had to get them from Celestrack instead. Anyone know what’s going on with the Kep files? de KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Thursday, March 18, 2021, 5:02 AM, Erich Eichmann erich.eichmann@t-online.de wrote:
Hi, During the last days some users reported that SatPC32 caused the error message "Zugriffsverletztung bei Adresse..." or "access violation at address...". after they updated their Keps file. The program could no longer be closed normally but only using the Windows Task Manager. Yersteday John, AA2HJ, reported that he also got the error. He had completlely filled his "Selected" lsit with the possible number of satellites (24). The error occured when he tried to update nasabare.txt via the "Download Keps" function.
He then found out that nasabare.txt contained the NO-84 data set twice. Also, the file had had not been updated for 6 days. As I have seen in the meantime, the same applies to nasa.all. I then did the same for myself and actually received the error message "access violation". I had to close the program with the Task Manager. After a few restarts, the program did no longer start and the error message appeared "Error while loading Standard.SAT "
I was able to fix the error by replacing the file "Standard.SAT" in the main data folder by the file Standard.SAT from the sub folder CfgII, which only contained approx. 12 satellites like upon installation.
The error seems to be due to the faulty file nasabare.txt, when the "Selected" list is full and contains the satellite NO-84. Without this satellite, the error did not occur for me, even if the list was full. Unfortunately, I was only able earlicer yesterday to to recommend to re-install the program to a user who had not backed up his settings with DataBackup
I hope AMSAT will soon fix the Kepsfiles. Until then one should not add NO-84 to the selected list.
To replace the file Standard.SAT in the main folder by the same file from sub folders CfgII, CfgIII or CfgIV you have to make hidden files and folders visible (under Windows 10 start the File Manager, then: View > Options > Folder Options > View). The path to the data folder will be: C:\User\Username\AppData\Roaming\SatPC32. If you have a flawlessly working configuration you should save it with DataBackup (SatPC32 menu "Programs"). Then you can easily restore it if errors occure later.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
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View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
participants (5)
-
Burns Fisher -
Chris Thompson -
crohtun -
Erich Eichmann -
Jean Marc Momple