Modulation levels on AO-85
I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN
Not everyone runs QRO so sometimes you might have to turn up that audio gain a little.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Aug 13, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Ronald G. Parsons w5rkn@w5rkn.com wrote:
I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote:
I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote:
5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote:
I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else.
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe nss@mwt.net wrote:
Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
"...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens matthew@mrstevens.net To: Joe nss@mwt.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85
Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else.
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe nss@mwt.net wrote:
Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen.
Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem.
And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq?
73's
Jerry,ON4CJQ
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" k8bl@ameritech.net Aan: "Matthew Stevens" matthew@mrstevens.net, "Joe" nss@mwt.net Cc: "amsat-bb" amsat-bb@amsat.org Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85
"...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens matthew@mrstevens.net To: Joe nss@mwt.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85
Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else.
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe nss@mwt.net wrote:
Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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I use LOGIC 9 and it uploads the downlink frequency. I enter both uplink and downlink frequencies into the logging program LOCIC 9. I receive lots of matches and that seems to be the accepted convention. I know ARRL suggests uploading the uplink frequency in their documentation. LOGIC 9 does not follow that recommendation and from my experience most other sat operators are not either.
YMMV
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 10:27 AM, jerry.tuyls@telenet.be wrote:
Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen.
Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem.
And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq?
73's
Jerry,ON4CJQ
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" k8bl@ameritech.net Aan: "Matthew Stevens" matthew@mrstevens.net, "Joe" nss@mwt.net Cc: "amsat-bb" amsat-bb@amsat.org Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85
"...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens matthew@mrstevens.net To: Joe nss@mwt.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85
Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else.
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe nss@mwt.net wrote:
Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The convention in logging split band or mode QSOs is to use what band or mode you're transmitting on.
That said, LoTW doesn't care about the frequencies if the propagation mode is set to 'SAT'
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Frank Westphal k6fw1@verizon.net wrote:
I use LOGIC 9 and it uploads the downlink frequency. I enter both uplink and downlink frequencies into the logging program LOCIC 9. I receive lots of matches and that seems to be the accepted convention. I know ARRL suggests uploading the uplink frequency in their documentation. LOGIC 9 does not follow that recommendation and from my experience most other sat operators are not either.
YMMV
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 10:27 AM, jerry.tuyls@telenet.be wrote:
Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen.
Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem.
And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq?
73's
Jerry,ON4CJQ
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" k8bl@ameritech.net Aan: "Matthew Stevens" matthew@mrstevens.net, "Joe" nss@mwt.net Cc: "amsat-bb" amsat-bb@amsat.org Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85
"...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens matthew@mrstevens.net To: Joe nss@mwt.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else.
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe nss@mwt.net wrote:
Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote:
I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past?
Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
My experience with LOTW and SAT QSO's is the frequency does matter. I have had to fool my logging program to upload the uplink frequency to get a match on a rare occasion. N5JB's guide to LOTW and satellite QSO's says 7 items must match to get a satellite verification in LOTW. Only 5 items need to match for a non-satellite QSO.
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 6:30 PM, Paul Stoetzer wrote:
The convention in logging split band or mode QSOs is to use what band or mode you're transmitting on.
That said, LoTW doesn't care about the frequencies if the propagation mode is set to 'SAT'
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Frank Westphal <k6fw1@verizon.net mailto:k6fw1@verizon.net> wrote:
I use LOGIC 9 and it uploads the downlink frequency. I enter both uplink and downlink frequencies into the logging program LOCIC 9. I receive lots of matches and that seems to be the accepted convention. I know ARRL suggests uploading the uplink frequency in their documentation. LOGIC 9 does not follow that recommendation and from my experience most other sat operators are not either. YMMV 73, Frank K6FW On 8/14/17 10:27 AM, jerry.tuyls@telenet.be <mailto:jerry.tuyls@telenet.be> wrote: Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen. Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem. And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq? 73's Jerry,ON4CJQ ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@ameritech.net <mailto:k8bl@ameritech.net>> Aan: "Matthew Stevens" <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>>, "Joe" <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 "...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>> To: Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else. - Matthew nj4y Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> wrote: Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc. Jerry Buxton, NØJY On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past? Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. 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I'm not entirely convinced of that. I have at least a dozen QSLs in LOTW that have no frequency for both the up and downlink. However, as we all know, LOTW does have some "undocumented features". Maybe there's some corner case where it does matter but I haven't ran into it yet.
73,
Mike Diehl AI6GS
On Aug 14, 2017, at 6:42 PM, Frank Westphal k6fw1@verizon.net wrote:
My experience with LOTW and SAT QSO's is the frequency does matter. I have had to fool my logging program to upload the uplink frequency to get a match on a rare occasion. N5JB's guide to LOTW and satellite QSO's says 7 items must match to get a satellite verification in LOTW. Only 5 items need to match for a non-satellite QSO.
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 6:30 PM, Paul Stoetzer wrote: The convention in logging split band or mode QSOs is to use what band or mode you're transmitting on.
That said, LoTW doesn't care about the frequencies if the propagation mode is set to 'SAT'
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Frank Westphal <k6fw1@verizon.net mailto:k6fw1@verizon.net> wrote:
I use LOGIC 9 and it uploads the downlink frequency. I enter both uplink and downlink frequencies into the logging program LOCIC 9. I receive lots of matches and that seems to be the accepted convention. I know ARRL suggests uploading the uplink frequency in their documentation. LOGIC 9 does not follow that recommendation and from my experience most other sat operators are not either.
YMMV
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 10:27 AM, jerry.tuyls@telenet.be mailto:jerry.tuyls@telenet.be wrote:
Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen. Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem. And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq? 73's Jerry,ON4CJQ ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@ameritech.net <mailto:k8bl@ameritech.net>> Aan: "Matthew Stevens" <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>>, "Joe" <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 "...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>> To: Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else. - Matthew nj4y Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> wrote: Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc. Jerry Buxton, NØJY On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past? Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. 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I've had a few match even though I accidentally uploaded a "20m" SAT qso because my logger autofilled the band field incorrectly lol.
In the few cases I couldn't get a match because of some unknown hiccup in LOTW, I have just changed the qso time by a minute or two (so lotw recognized it as a different qso record), reuploaded and got a match.
Most of the satellite lotw info I've read online has mentioned several adif fields that don't seem to make a difference. In my experience, only the callsign,gh SAT mode, satellite name, time, and mode (FM, SSB etc) have to match. Ymmv.
73
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 14, 2017, at 21:42, Frank Westphal k6fw1@verizon.net wrote:
My experience with LOTW and SAT QSO's is the frequency does matter. I have had to fool my logging program to upload the uplink frequency to get a match on a rare occasion. N5JB's guide to LOTW and satellite QSO's says 7 items must match to get a satellite verification in LOTW. Only 5 items need to match for a non-satellite QSO.
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 6:30 PM, Paul Stoetzer wrote: The convention in logging split band or mode QSOs is to use what band or mode you're transmitting on.
That said, LoTW doesn't care about the frequencies if the propagation mode is set to 'SAT'
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Frank Westphal <k6fw1@verizon.net mailto:k6fw1@verizon.net> wrote:
I use LOGIC 9 and it uploads the downlink frequency. I enter both uplink and downlink frequencies into the logging program LOCIC 9. I receive lots of matches and that seems to be the accepted convention. I know ARRL suggests uploading the uplink frequency in their documentation. LOGIC 9 does not follow that recommendation and from my experience most other sat operators are not either.
YMMV
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 10:27 AM, jerry.tuyls@telenet.be mailto:jerry.tuyls@telenet.be wrote:
Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen. Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem. And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq? 73's Jerry,ON4CJQ ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@ameritech.net <mailto:k8bl@ameritech.net>> Aan: "Matthew Stevens" <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>>, "Joe" <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 "...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>> To: Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else. - Matthew nj4y Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> wrote: Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc. Jerry Buxton, NØJY On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past? Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! 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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
K7TAB shared this link with me awhile back, which describes the fields/logic that LOTW purportedly uses to match: https://lotw.arrl.org/lotw-help/frequently-asked-questions/#datamatch
Adam, K0FFY
On Aug 14, 2017, at 21:27, Matthew Stevens matthew@mrstevens.net wrote:
I've had a few match even though I accidentally uploaded a "20m" SAT qso because my logger autofilled the band field incorrectly lol.
In the few cases I couldn't get a match because of some unknown hiccup in LOTW, I have just changed the qso time by a minute or two (so lotw recognized it as a different qso record), reuploaded and got a match.
Most of the satellite lotw info I've read online has mentioned several adif fields that don't seem to make a difference. In my experience, only the callsign,gh SAT mode, satellite name, time, and mode (FM, SSB etc) have to match. Ymmv.
73
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 14, 2017, at 21:42, Frank Westphal k6fw1@verizon.net wrote:
My experience with LOTW and SAT QSO's is the frequency does matter. I have had to fool my logging program to upload the uplink frequency to get a match on a rare occasion. N5JB's guide to LOTW and satellite QSO's says 7 items must match to get a satellite verification in LOTW. Only 5 items need to match for a non-satellite QSO.
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 6:30 PM, Paul Stoetzer wrote: The convention in logging split band or mode QSOs is to use what band or mode you're transmitting on.
That said, LoTW doesn't care about the frequencies if the propagation mode is set to 'SAT'
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Frank Westphal <k6fw1@verizon.net mailto:k6fw1@verizon.net> wrote:
I use LOGIC 9 and it uploads the downlink frequency. I enter both uplink and downlink frequencies into the logging program LOCIC 9. I receive lots of matches and that seems to be the accepted convention. I know ARRL suggests uploading the uplink frequency in their documentation. LOGIC 9 does not follow that recommendation and from my experience most other sat operators are not either.
YMMV
73, Frank K6FW
On 8/14/17 10:27 AM, jerry.tuyls@telenet.be mailto:jerry.tuyls@telenet.be wrote:
Spending some time here by telling several times on AO-85 passes about bad modulation to the same stations, but they DON'T listen. Just ignoring them, because i cannot understand them on my TS-790/FT-847.No narrow FM and no PL tone. Never got a problem. And please...why do some stations upload logs with DWNlink freq on sat qso's instead of the UPlink freq? Always having some rejected qsl's because qso's don't match due to wrong band. I log with VQlog, uplink and dwnlink freq etc, so i think the TX-freq is most important for logging sat'qso's and not the RX-freq? 73's Jerry,ON4CJQ ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@ameritech.net <mailto:k8bl@ameritech.net>> Aan: "Matthew Stevens" <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>>, "Joe" <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org>> Verzonden: Maandag 14 augustus 2017 02:33:37 Onderwerp: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 "...food in the mic hole, etc."!!! LOL!!! - Bob K8BL From: Matthew Stevens <matthew@mrstevens.net <mailto:matthew@mrstevens.net>> To: Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Modulation levels on AO-85 Like Jerry said, its more an issue with mic gain or poor mic technique than anything else. - Matthew nj4y Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 19:18, Joe <nss@mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> wrote: Plus a LOT of people are running Narrow Modulation now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/13/2017 6:14 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: 5 kHz is the nominal "wide" setting for ham radio equipment on the VHF/UHF bands. So a rig set to 5 kHz is what we all usually expect. 5 kHz deviation with 3 kHz audio (the usual top for most voice) would be about 16 kHz bandwidth. The deviation number alone is not equal to bandwidth. ("Carson's Rule") Low audio is usually just that, not talking loud enough, not talking into the mic properly, mic gain setting too low, food in the mic hole, etc. Jerry Buxton, NØJY On 8/13/2017 17:55, Ronald G. Parsons wrote: I’ve noticed lately that many stations on AO-85 have barely audible modulation. Yet other stations have clear audio with good quieting. I have heard the some manufacturers of hand-held and mobile rigs are setting their maximum deviation to 5 kHz or even less. I have noticed the same effect on local repeaters. Has anyone done any tests of the deviation required for reasonable quieting on AO-85? Or are more stations using lower power than in the past? Ron W5RKN _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> | _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. 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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (10)
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Adam Whitney -
Frank Westphal -
Jerry Buxton -
jerry.tuyls＠telenet.be -
Joe -
Matthew Stevens -
Mike Diehl -
Paul Stoetzer -
R.T.Liddy -
Ronald G. Parsons