AMSAT has been in business for over 50 years. Could one or more of the directors please address why they feel that this denial of membership clause is needed now?
Steve AI9IN
There are a very few assh— - er, I mean, “malcontents” - who publicly and usually irrationally bash AMSAT each and every day in the public forums they are still allowed to post.
And they somehow believe that simply because they are “members” they cannot be controlled in dissemination of their tripe.
YOU wouldn’t want them in YOUR club. Heck, a rational person wouldn’t want them in their Zip Code …
As I read the proposed bylaws change, the AMSAT secretary can look at a membership app or renewal app, and “flag” it to present to the board for making a decision whether or not to allow membership.
And as long as the rational for disallowing does not violate federal discrimination statutes, a 501(c)(3) can certainly do this.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
On Apr 21, 2021, at 9:10 AM, Steve Kristoff skristof@etczone.com wrote:
AMSAT has been in business for over 50 years. Could one or more of the directors please address why they feel that this denial of membership clause is needed now?
Steve AI9IN
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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And one of these malcontents has threatened to initiate litigation against AMSAT … and “alerting” the IRS with his wild fantasies of improprieties … just about everything short of burning down AMSAT’s virtual office.
And if this simple bylaws change wasn’t in effect, he’d use his warped thinking into using his dismissal as “grounds” for even more threatened litigation.
He is suffering from “man behind the curtain” syndrome: Thinks he matters, but truly does not. But I am sure his threats are responsible for a lot of wasted time that could be better used by AMSAT officials.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
And this is why many of us will not continue our membership with this organization.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 21, 2021, at 1:12 PM, Steve Rish steverish@inbox.com wrote:
Clint, your repeated name calling does nothing to advance the discussion nor cement your image/role as an "Ambassador" of AMSAT nor self proclaimed sat guru. Suppose the secretary/BOD in accordance with the proposed bylaw change unilaterally were to proclaim membership requirements (and as written they could) would be limited to all licensed hams grade "general and above". Sure sounds arbitrary and irresponsible but as written could be done regardless of the majority of members consent
Steve
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:27:11 -0700 To: clintbradford@mac.com Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Bylaws change. Why now?
And one of these malcontents has threatened to initiate litigation against AMSAT … and “alerting” the IRS with his wild fantasies of improprieties … just about everything short of burning down AMSAT’s virtual office.
And if this simple bylaws change wasn’t in effect, he’d use his warped thinking into using his dismissal as “grounds” for even more threatened litigation.
He is suffering from “man behind the curtain” syndrome: Thinks he matters, but truly does not. But I am sure his threats are responsible for a lot of wasted time that could be better used by AMSAT officials.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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I am a *Life Membership* of AMSAT and this is the first time in my 3 years I have seen bylaws wanting to be changed. For those members that really do not follow there needs to be a mass mailing is my thought. Heck take up some room in the AMSAT Journal and post the changes there would be a truly legit way to do it Christopher
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 1:17 PM maikranze@gmail.com wrote:
And this is why many of us will not continue our membership with this organization.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 21, 2021, at 1:12 PM, Steve Rish steverish@inbox.com wrote:
Clint, your repeated name calling does nothing to advance the discussion nor cement your image/role as an "Ambassador" of AMSAT nor self proclaimed sat guru. Suppose the secretary/BOD in accordance with the proposed bylaw change unilaterally were to proclaim membership requirements (and as written they could) would be limited to all licensed hams grade "general and above". Sure sounds arbitrary and irresponsible but as written could be done regardless of the majority of members consent
Steve
-----Original Message----- *From:* amsat-bb@amsat.org *Sent:* Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:27:11 -0700 *To:* clintbradford@mac.com *Subject:* [AMSAT-BB] Re: Bylaws change. Why now?
And one of these malcontents has threatened to initiate litigation against AMSAT … and “alerting” the IRS with his wild fantasies of improprieties … just about everything short of burning down AMSAT’s virtual office.
And if this simple bylaws change wasn’t in effect, he’d use his warped thinking into using his dismissal as “grounds” for even more threatened litigation.
He is suffering from “man behind the curtain” syndrome: Thinks he matters, but truly does not. But I am sure his threats are responsible for a lot of wasted time that could be better used by AMSAT officials.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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On 4/21/21 1:34 PM, Chris Bullock wrote:
I am a */Life Membership/* of AMSAT and this is the first time in my 3 years I have seen bylaws wanting to be changed. For those members that really do not follow there needs to be a mass mailing is my thought.
There was a (snail mail) letter sent to every AMSAT member. I got mine a few days ago.
--- Zach N0ZGO
Oh, I am so sorry I offended someone.
Although I have truth on my side as a defense, I will, from now on, call those who wish to destroy AMSAT “really nice guys” so as not to offend.
Yeah, right.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
As a former member of the board, former senior officer of AMSAT and a life member this doesn't smell good.
Include the initiative on the ballot for the next directors like president's club inserts in the past and let the membership vote after the complete text of the proposed changes are included on the ballot insert.
Bob N4HY
Dr. Robert W McGwier, Ph.D. Adjunct Faculty, Virginia Tech ARDC Member of Board N4HY: ARRL, TAPR, AMSAT, EARC Sky: AAVSO, SkyHub, Auburn AS, Skyscrapers
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 2:41 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Oh, I am so sorry I offended someone.
Although I have truth on my side as a defense, I will, from now on, call those who wish to destroy AMSAT “really nice guys” so as not to offend.
Yeah, right.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
"Include the initiative on the ballot…” Agree.
Greg N3MVF
On Apr 21, 2021, at 4:03 PM, Robert McGwier rwmcgwier@gmail.com wrote:
As a former member of the board, former senior officer of AMSAT and a life member this doesn't smell good.
Include the initiative on the ballot for the next directors like president's club inserts in the past and let the membership vote after the complete text of the proposed changes are included on the ballot insert.
Bob N4HY
Dr. Robert W McGwier, Ph.D. Adjunct Faculty, Virginia Tech ARDC Member of Board N4HY: ARRL, TAPR, AMSAT, EARC Sky: AAVSO, SkyHub, Auburn AS, Skyscrapers
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 2:41 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote: Oh, I am so sorry I offended someone.
Although I have truth on my side as a defense, I will, from now on, call those who wish to destroy AMSAT “really nice guys” so as not to offend.
Yeah, right.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:18 AM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
And as long as the rational for disallowing does not violate federal discrimination statutes, a 501(c)(3) can certainly do this.
This is indeed an important point. Look at it this way:
Is AMSAT the National Association for Amateur Satellites in the United States, sort of a parallel to what ARRL is for Amateur Radio? Or is AMSAT a private club?
If they are a private club, they can do what they want. If they want to be the National Association, they need to meet a higher standard and represent every ham in the country.
A past AMSAT president asserted that AMSAT was the *Global* association, and National Associations like AMSAT-DL were its organizational members. If that is really the case, the standard would need to be even higher.
Thanks
Bruce
Hi Bruce et al,
However, as a 501(c)(3), they cannot do whatever it wants as a private club. Just pointing it out. Personally, I have no problem with a fair and ethical system, if non-discrimatory and law compliant with a membership issue. In the radio club I belonged to and other clubs, (501’s) you had to have two references before the board would even accept an application. Too cumbersome here, but a review for “violators” would restrict those that may violate the mission and purpose of the organization. Also, I think there needs to be an appeals process as well. This may prevent subjective banning based upon a personality conflict with a officer.
73 Greg N3MVF
On Apr 21, 2021, at 12:31 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:18 AM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote: And as long as the rational for disallowing does not violate federal discrimination statutes, a 501(c)(3) can certainly do this.
This is indeed an important point. Look at it this way:
Is AMSAT the National Association for Amateur Satellites in the United States, sort of a parallel to what ARRL is for Amateur Radio? Or is AMSAT a private club?
If they are a private club, they can do what they want. If they want to be the National Association, they need to meet a higher standard and represent every ham in the country.
A past AMSAT president asserted that AMSAT was the Global association, and National Associations like AMSAT-DL were its organizational members. If that is really the case, the standard would need to be even higher.
Thanks
Bruce
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Hello Bruce and all others,
I would like to make sure we all have the same understanding: AMSAT-DL is not an organizational member of AMSAT (NA) !
Nothing indicating this can be found in the by-laws of AMSAT-DL (which is publicly available on the AMSAT-DL website).
Of course AMSAT-DL has and welcomes members which are also members of other AMSAT organizations (including AMSAT-NA).
In fact AMSAT-DL and I believe also most or all other AMSAT organizations are independent.
Nevertheless most of them share the same goal: to foster R&D for ham radio satellite systems and make satellite payloads available to the ham radio community.
And finally fortunately in the past there have been very successful cooperations among AMSAT organizations in achieving this common goal.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.dehttp://www.dd1us.de
Von: Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. April 2021 18:31 An: Clint Bradford clintbradford@mac.com Cc: Steve Kristoff skristof@etczone.com; AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Betreff: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Bylaws change. Why now?
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:18 AM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.orgmailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: And as long as the rational for disallowing does not violate federal discrimination statutes, a 501(c)(3) can certainly do this.
This is indeed an important point. Look at it this way:
Is AMSAT the National Association for Amateur Satellites in the United States, sort of a parallel to what ARRL is for Amateur Radio? Or is AMSAT a private club?
If they are a private club, they can do what they want. If they want to be the National Association, they need to meet a higher standard and represent every ham in the country.
A past AMSAT president asserted that AMSAT was the Global association, and National Associations like AMSAT-DL were its organizational members. If that is really the case, the standard would need to be even higher.
Thanks
Bruce
I am hoping that a member of the board of directors will please explain. Steve AI9IN ----- Original Message ----- From: Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@amsat.org) Date: 04/21/21 12:18 To: Steve Kristoff (skristof@etczone.com) Cc: AMSAT BB (amsat-bb@amsat.org) Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Bylaws change. Why now?
There are a very few assh— - er, I mean, “malcontents” - who publicly and usually irrationally bash AMSAT each and every day in the public forums they are still allowed to post.
And they somehow believe that simply because they are “members” they cannot be controlled in dissemination of their tripe.
YOU wouldn’t want them in YOUR club. Heck, a rational person wouldn’t want them in their Zip Code …
As I read the proposed bylaws change, the AMSAT secretary can look at a membership app or renewal app, and “flag” it to present to the board for making a decision whether or not to allow membership.
And as long as the rational for disallowing does not violate federal discrimination statutes, a 501(c)(3) can certainly do this.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
On Apr 21, 2021, at 9:10 AM, Steve Kristoff skristof@etczone.com wrote:
AMSAT has been in business for over 50 years. Could one or more of the directors please address why they feel that this denial of membership clause is needed now?
Steve AI9IN
participants (10)
-
Bruce Perens -
Chris Bullock -
Clint Bradford -
Greg -
maikranze＠gmail.com -
Matthias Bopp -
Robert McGwier -
Steve Kristoff -
Steve Rish -
Zach Metzinger