Standard for AMSAT status board observations of FS-3
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded, then clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive any APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the same configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm working FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand ol' time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that appropriate? I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later today.
73, Ryan AI6DO
Hi Ryan, the PBBS on FS-3 is working great. You’re right, it’s hard to see if it’s working on APRS—though working full duplex you should copy yourself right?
I checked my log files and confirm that the digipeater is ON. Also, I looked at the last couple KISS log files and can’t see your call. Double check things is my suggestion. ??
I suggest you report as uplink and downlink active, unless you are positive that uplinks aren’t working; recently they have been from my QTH.
73, Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:47 AM Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded, then clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive any APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the same configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm working FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand ol' time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that appropriate? I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later today.
73, Ryan AI6DO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi, Mark.
I do not receive any visible notification of receiving my own packets on the TH-D72A despite operating full duplex. My understanding is that Patrick WD9EWK has previously reported this is a limitation of the TH-D72A that is not shared by the TH-D74A. I only go by the real-time readout on the home screen, the stored list of decoded APRS packets ("LIST"), and the stored list ("MSG") of received APRS messages. I have not inspected log files that might be stored on the radio.
I sent my beacon several times during each of the 0030Z and 1420Z passes on Thu 5/31, at 5W through an Arrow on the first pass and an Elk on the second. I verified the APRS settings before and after each pass. I was digipeated on three separate passes on Mon 5/28, and had QSOs over the weekend, with those same settings on the same radio with the same antennas and cables.
I'm hesitant to report the uplink as active unless the undecoded packets I receive are evidence that the uplink is active. On every pass I receive undecoded packets from PFS3-1 and PFS3-11, and occasionally PFS3-12. Does one or more of those SSIDs indicate that an operator had successfully uplinked to the satellite on that pass? I read the status packets description document and nothing stood out to me as being indicative of an uplink.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:10:38 AM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote:
Hi Ryan, the PBBS on FS-3 is working great. You’re right, it’s hard to see if it’s working on APRS—though working full duplex you should copy yourself right? I checked my log files and confirm that the digipeater is ON. Also, I looked at the last couple KISS log files and can’t see your call. Double check things is my suggestion. ?? I suggest you report as uplink and downlink active, unless you are positive that uplinks aren’t working; recently they have been from my QTH. 73,Mark N8MH
I sent my beacon several times during each of the 0030Z and 1420Z passes on Thu 5/31 ...
Sorry, meant to write 2120Z (1420 PDT), not 1420Z.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:55:19 AM PDT, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hi, Mark.
I do not receive any visible notification of receiving my own packets on the TH-D72A despite operating full duplex. My understanding is that Patrick WD9EWK has previously reported this is a limitation of the TH-D72A that is not shared by the TH-D74A. I only go by the real-time readout on the home screen, the stored list of decoded APRS packets ("LIST"), and the stored list ("MSG") of received APRS messages. I have not inspected log files that might be stored on the radio.
I sent my beacon several times during each of the 0030Z and 1420Z passes on Thu 5/31, at 5W through an Arrow on the first pass and an Elk on the second. I verified the APRS settings before and after each pass. I was digipeated on three separate passes on Mon 5/28, and had QSOs over the weekend, with those same settings on the same radio with the same antennas and cables.
I'm hesitant to report the uplink as active unless the undecoded packets I receive are evidence that the uplink is active. On every pass I receive undecoded packets from PFS3-1 and PFS3-11, and occasionally PFS3-12. Does one or more of those SSIDs indicate that an operator had successfully uplinked to the satellite on that pass? I read the status packets description document and nothing stood out to me as being indicative of an uplink.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:10:38 AM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote:
Hi Ryan, the PBBS on FS-3 is working great. You’re right, it’s hard to see if it’s working on APRS—though working full duplex you should copy yourself right? I checked my log files and confirm that the digipeater is ON. Also, I looked at the last couple KISS log files and can’t see your call. Double check things is my suggestion. ?? I suggest you report as uplink and downlink active, unless you are positive that uplinks aren’t working; recently they have been from my QTH. 73,Mark N8MH
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:52 AM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I do not receive any visible notification of receiving my own packets on the TH-D72A despite operating full duplex. My understanding is that Patrick WD9EWK has previously reported this is a limitation of the TH-D72A that is not shared by the TH-D74A.
At the risk of introducing confusion based on my inexperience using FS-3, I will say that I do know when using the D72 with the ISS digipeater or with any standard simplex digipeater, when your packet is repeated you do get realtime visual and audio indication it was repeated. The radio makes a unique audio alert when it receives its own packets repeated back and the screen flashes "MY POSITION" above "via RS0ISS" or whatever the callsign of the digipeater is. This can be seen in my video below. The limitation I am familiar with is that your repeated/received packets do not then show up in the LIST, which can be confusing, as it was for me as seen in the below. video. I believe the D74 does allow you to view your repeated/received packets in its LIST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woSzJ-PtH2M&feature=youtu.be&t=36
73, John Brier KG4AKV
John,
Normally, working FalconSat-3 should be the same as any other orbiting digipeater, where you would see a "My Message" or "My Position" notification on your HT's screen when you are digipeated. FalconSat-3 sends down so much data, that it is possible your HT misses the digipeated packet, or it received it with a series of other packets so fast you miss the on-screen notification. That's why I find myself checking the listing of stations heard and message listings during a FalconSat-3 pass, in case I missed something.
Working FalconSat-3's digipeater with a single D74 is basically a no-go, since its TNC can only work with one VFO. It can't be set to receive from one VFO and transmit from the other, something the D72, D7, and the Kenwood APRS mobiles can do. Even though I might not see many of the "My Message" or "My Position" notifications on the screen, I do fine working FalconSat-3 with my D72, and hope to try it later today and tomorrow afternoon.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK - Prescott, Arizona http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:56 PM, John Brier [email protected] wrote:
At the risk of introducing confusion based on my inexperience using FS-3, I will say that I do know when using the D72 with the ISS digipeater or with any standard simplex digipeater, when your packet is repeated you do get realtime visual and audio indication it was repeated. The radio makes a unique audio alert when it receives its own packets repeated back and the screen flashes "MY POSITION" above "via RS0ISS" or whatever the callsign of the digipeater is. This can be seen in my video below. The limitation I am familiar with is that your repeated/received packets do not then show up in the LIST, which can be confusing, as it was for me as seen in the below. video. I believe the D74 does allow you to view your repeated/received packets in its LIST.
The pass I just got on had a much more sedate downlink, with a roughly-estimated average of about one PFS3-1 or PFS3-11 undecoded packet about every 4 seconds or so over the course of the pass. Despite seeing a bunch of beacon and message traffic by WD9EWK and KB6LTY and completing a QSO with WD9EWK, I was able to get that My Message indication for the first time in quite a while, and see my beacons and messages get sent with no more than a second or two delay. A huge change from the past couple of days, with no change in my configuration.
I can certainly report FS-3 was Blue for this pass. Thanks for the QSO, Patrick! It seemed like you got a steady stream of traffic on AO-91 just before, enough that I couldn't get through myself, which is my typical experience on the FM birds during daylight hours.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:31:01 PM PDT, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) [email protected] wrote:
John,
Normally, working FalconSat-3 should be the same as any other orbiting digipeater, where you would see a "My Message" or "My Position" notification on your HT's screen when you are digipeated. FalconSat-3 sends down so much data, that it is possible your HT misses the digipeated packet, or it received it with a series of other packets so fast you miss the on-screen notification. That's why I find myself checking the listing of stations heard and message listings during a FalconSat-3 pass, in case I missed something.
Ryan,
Thanks for the FalconSat-3 QSO a few minutes ago! I never saw the notifications for my packets being digipeated, but saw your messages, your position, and received the ACK from a message I sent you. I also exchanged messages with KB6LTY, although I never saw her position packets. With our activity through the digipeater, that was definitely "Uplink and Downlink Active". :-)
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:04 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
The pass I just got on had a much more sedate downlink, with a roughly-estimated average of about one PFS3-1 or PFS3-11 undecoded packet about every 4 seconds or so over the course of the pass. Despite seeing a bunch of beacon and message traffic by WD9EWK and KB6LTY and completing a QSO with WD9EWK, I was able to get that My Message indication for the first time in quite a while, and see my beacons and messages get sent with no more than a second or two delay. A huge change from the past couple of days, with no change in my configuration.
I can certainly report FS-3 was Blue for this pass. Thanks for the QSO, Patrick! It seemed like you got a steady stream of traffic on AO-91 just before, enough that I couldn't get through myself, which is my typical experience on the FM birds during daylight hours.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:31:01 PM PDT, Patrick STODDARD(WD9EWK/VA7EWK) [email protected] wrote:
John,
Normally, working FalconSat-3 should be the same as any other orbiting digipeater, where you would see a "My Message" or "My Position" notification on your HT's screen when you are digipeated. FalconSat-3 sends down so much data, that it is possible your HT misses the digipeated packet, or it received it with a series of other packets so fast you miss the on-screen notification. That's why I find myself checking the listing of stations heard and message listings during a FalconSat-3 pass, in case I missed something.
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Great. Yes less PBBS means better Digi. I am convinced the attitude of FS-3 varies, and it matters. Elevation alone sometimes isn’t enough!
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 5:38 PM Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
The pass I just got on had a much more sedate downlink, with a roughly-estimated average of about one PFS3-1 or PFS3-11 undecoded packet about every 4 seconds or so over the course of the pass. Despite seeing a bunch of beacon and message traffic by WD9EWK and KB6LTY and completing a QSO with WD9EWK, I was able to get that My Message indication for the first time in quite a while, and see my beacons and messages get sent with no more than a second or two delay. A huge change from the past couple of days, with no change in my configuration.
I can certainly report FS-3 was Blue for this pass. Thanks for the QSO, Patrick! It seemed like you got a steady stream of traffic on AO-91 just before, enough that I couldn't get through myself, which is my typical experience on the FM birds during daylight hours.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:31:01 PM PDT, Patrick STODDARD(WD9EWK/VA7EWK) [email protected] wrote:
John,
Normally, working FalconSat-3 should be the same as any other orbiting digipeater, where you would see a "My Message" or "My Position" notification on your HT's screen when you are digipeated. FalconSat-3 sends down so much data, that it is possible your HT misses the digipeated packet, or it received it with a series of other packets so fast you miss the on-screen notification. That's why I find myself checking the listing of stations heard and message listings during a FalconSat-3 pass, in case I missed something.
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'd agree that the attitude of the satellite affects link margin, given the geometry of the antennas in the satellite drawings I've seen.
This FS-3 pass I just tried must have had a lot more PBBS traffic, not quite as much as Wed or Thu, but much more than two hours ago, maybe one packet every 2 seconds or so. I wasn't iGated, despite sending my beacon several times manually. If the downlink is this full of PBBS packets, is that clear evidence that the uplink is active, since only a successful uplink to the PBBS would trigger the flood of packets?
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 3:06:13 PM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote:
Great. Yes less PBBS means better Digi. I am convinced the attitude of FS-3 varies, and it matters. Elevation alone sometimes isn’t enough! Mark N8MH
Sounds like good logic, Ryan!
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 7:28 PM Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
I'd agree that the attitude of the satellite affects link margin, given the geometry of the antennas in the satellite drawings I've seen.
This FS-3 pass I just tried must have had a lot more PBBS traffic, not quite as much as Wed or Thu, but much more than two hours ago, maybe one packet every 2 seconds or so. I wasn't iGated, despite sending my beacon several times manually. If the downlink is this full of PBBS packets, is that clear evidence that the uplink is active, since only a successful uplink to the PBBS would trigger the flood of packets?
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 3:06:13 PM PDT, Mark L. Hammond <[email protected]> wrote:
Great. Yes less PBBS means better Digi. I am convinced the attitude of FS-3 varies, and it matters. Elevation alone sometimes isn’t enough! Mark N8MH
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
So, to be clear, you're saying that the flood of PFS3-1, -11, -12 packets is only initiated by a PBBS user's uplink, and is not autonomously initiated by the satellite based on time, location, insolation, or some other stimulus that is not communicated to the satellite via the 145.840 MHz uplink, correct?
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 5:10:44 PM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote:
Sounds like good logic, Ryan! Mark N8MH On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 7:28 PM Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
I'd agree that the attitude of the satellite affects link margin, given the geometry of the antennas in the satellite drawings I've seen.
This FS-3 pass I just tried must have had a lot more PBBS traffic, not quite as much as Wed or Thu, but much more than two hours ago, maybe one packet every 2 seconds or so. I wasn't iGated, despite sending my beacon several times manually. If the downlink is this full of PBBS packets, is that clear evidence that the uplink is active, since only a successful uplink to the PBBS would trigger the flood of packets?
73, Ryan AI6DO
Hi Ryan,
Extra! Extra! Read all about it ;) https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/FalconSAT-3-Statu...
The "flood" is from a ground station requesting a directory update and/or a file download. Specifics in the above PDF will spell it all out.
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
So, to be clear, you're saying that the flood of PFS3-1, -11, -12 packets is only initiated by a PBBS user's uplink, and is not autonomously initiated by the satellite based on time, location, insolation, or some other stimulus that is not communicated to the satellite via the 145.840 MHz uplink, correct?
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 5:10:44 PM PDT, Mark L. Hammond <[email protected]> wrote:
Sounds like good logic, Ryan! Mark N8MH On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 7:28 PM Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I'd agree that the attitude of the satellite affects link margin, given the geometry of the antennas in the satellite drawings I've seen.
This FS-3 pass I just tried must have had a lot more PBBS traffic, not quite as much as Wed or Thu, but much more than two hours ago, maybe one packet every 2 seconds or so. I wasn't iGated, despite sending my beacon several times manually. If the downlink is this full of PBBS packets, is that clear evidence that the uplink is active, since only a successful uplink to the PBBS would trigger the flood of packets?
73, Ryan AI6DO
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I've read this document before and it doesn't really answer my question; that's beyond the scope of the document's intent. However, I trust your operational experience that the flood of (primarily) PFS3-11 packets is the manifestation of specific PBBS operations that can only be initiated by user command sent via the uplink.
Thanks and 73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 7:02:07 PM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote:
Hi Ryan, Extra! Extra! Read all about it ;) https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/FalconSAT-3-Statu... The "flood" is from a ground station requesting a directory update and/or a file download. Specifics in the above PDF will spell it all out.
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
So, to be clear, you're saying that the flood of PFS3-1, -11, -12 packets is only initiated by a PBBS user's uplink, and is not autonomously initiated by the satellite based on time, location, insolation, or some other stimulus that is not communicated to the satellite via the 145.840 MHz uplink, correct?
73, Ryan AI6DO
Actually, I think the answer is in there to match my remarks:
"PFS3-11 > QST-1 :<BBS Broadcast> This is a packet containing information from the file system, either directory updates or a part of a file. The words between the < > are inserted to avoid filling up the screen with potentially unprintable characters and strings of text in a message.
So, it's these packets that you see in response to a directory or file request. They are the "flood" initiated by ground stations...the other status type PFS3-11 packets are much less frequent (we can command the bird to change their frequency, within limits).
Yes, in this case it's safe trust my operational experience ;) Been doing these birds since AO-16/DO-17/WO-18/LO-19. The basic PBBS is the same, for all these years. Grateful the Wisp client still runs on Win10!
Mark N8MH
At 02:42 PM 6/2/2018 +0000, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB wrote:
I've read this document before and it doesn't really answer my question; that's beyond the scope of the document's intent. However, I trust your operational experience that the flood of (primarily) PFS3-11 packets is the manifestation of specific PBBS operations that can only be initiated by user command sent via the uplink. Thanks and 73, Ryan AI6DO On Friday, June 1, 2018, 7:02:07 PM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote: Hi Ryan, Extra! Extra! Read all about it ;)  https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/FalconSAT-3-Statu... The "flood" is from a ground station requesting a directory update and/or a file download. Specifics in the above PDF will spell it all out. Mark N8MH On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:  So, to be clear, you're saying that the flood of PFS3-1, -11, -12 packets is only initiated by a PBBS user's uplink, and is not autonomously initiated by the satellite based on time, location, insolation, or some other stimulus that is not communicated to the satellite via the 145.840 MHz uplink, correct? 73, Ryan AI6DO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mark,
The document does not define the complete set of conditions under which a given packet type could be transmitted. To be fair, that was not the document's intent. The combination of the document and your operational experience together tells the story adequately for my purposes (as an amateur operator, not as a professional systems engineer for high-reliability space systems), but the document does not do so by itself.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Saturday, June 2, 2018, 8:19:31 AM PDT, Mark L. Hammond [email protected] wrote:
Actually, I think the answer is in there to match myremarks:
"PFS3-11 > QST-1 :<BBS Broadcast> This is a packet containing information from the file system, either directory updates or a part of a file. The words between the < > are inserted to avoid filling up thescreen with potentially unprintable characters and strings of textin a message.
So, it's these packets that you see in response to a directory or filerequest. They are the "flood" initiated by groundstations...the other status type PFS3-11 packets are much less frequent(we can command the bird to change their frequency, within limits).
Yes, in this case it's safe trust my operational experience ;) Beendoing these birds since AO-16/DO-17/WO-18/LO-19. The basic PBBS isthe same, for all these years. Grateful the Wisp client still runson Win10!
Mark N8MH
PFS3-1 is the path for APRS digipeating, correct? I assume all the other passes displayed are from the BBS. Is there a list of what I would expect to see? 73, Rob KA2CZU
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 5:06:51 PM EDT, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
The pass I just got on had a much more sedate downlink, with a roughly-estimated average of about one PFS3-1 or PFS3-11 undecoded packet about every 4 seconds or so over the course of the pass. Despite seeing a bunch of beacon and message traffic by WD9EWK and KB6LTY and completing a QSO with WD9EWK, I was able to get that My Message indication for the first time in quite a while, and see my beacons and messages get sent with no more than a second or two delay. A huge change from the past couple of days, with no change in my configuration.
I can certainly report FS-3 was Blue for this pass. Thanks for the QSO, Patrick! It seemed like you got a steady stream of traffic on AO-91 just before, enough that I couldn't get through myself, which is my typical experience on the FM birds during daylight hours.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:31:01 PM PDT, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) [email protected] wrote:
John,
Normally, working FalconSat-3 should be the same as any other orbiting digipeater, where you would see a "My Message" or "My Position" notification on your HT's screen when you are digipeated. FalconSat-3 sends down so much data, that it is possible your HT misses the digipeated packet, or it received it with a series of other packets so fast you miss the on-screen notification. That's why I find myself checking the listing of stations heard and message listings during a FalconSat-3 pass, in case I missed something.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
This document describes the format of the packets: https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/FalconSAT-3-Statu...
PFS3-1 is the PATH you use for digipeating, but that call is not only used for the digipeating function.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Saturday, June 2, 2018, 5:00:24 AM PDT, Robert Switzer [email protected] wrote:
PFS3-1 is the path for APRS digipeating, correct? I assume all the other passes displayed are from the BBS. Is there a list of what I would expect to see? 73, Rob KA2CZU
Hi, John.
I don't recall ever receiving that indication that I've received one of my own packets repeated by FS-3, even when I've been iGated or completed a QSO. However, I'm usually being bombarded by so many non-APRS packets in the downlink on nearly a continuous basis for almost the entire pass that I wouldn't be surprised if the D72's user interface or decoding processing just isn't able to keep up in real time.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 11:56:50 AM PDT, John Brier [email protected] wrote:
At the risk of introducing confusion based on my inexperience using FS-3, I will say that I do know when using the D72 with the ISS digipeater or with any standard simplex digipeater, when your packet is repeated you do get realtime visual and audio indication it was repeated. The radio makes a unique audio alert when it receives its own packets repeated back and the screen flashes "MY POSITION" above "via RS0ISS" or whatever the callsign of the digipeater is. This can be seen in my video below. The limitation I am familiar with is that your repeated/received packets do not then show up in the LIST, which can be confusing, as it was for me as seen in the below. video. I believe the D74 does allow you to view your repeated/received packets in its LIST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woSzJ-PtH2M&feature=youtu.be&t=36 73, John Brier KG4AKV
one "should" see decoded Msgs in the "MSG" list on the D72A, however. Correct? Rob KA2CZU
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 3:48:07 PM EDT, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hi, John.
I don't recall ever receiving that indication that I've received one of my own packets repeated by FS-3, even when I've been iGated or completed a QSO. However, I'm usually being bombarded by so many non-APRS packets in the downlink on nearly a continuous basis for almost the entire pass that I wouldn't be surprised if the D72's user interface or decoding processing just isn't able to keep up in real time.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 11:56:50 AM PDT, John Brier [email protected] wrote:
At the risk of introducing confusion based on my inexperience using FS-3, I will say that I do know when using the D72 with the ISS digipeater or with any standard simplex digipeater, when your packet is repeated you do get realtime visual and audio indication it was repeated. The radio makes a unique audio alert when it receives its own packets repeated back and the screen flashes "MY POSITION" above "via RS0ISS" or whatever the callsign of the digipeater is. This can be seen in my video below. The limitation I am familiar with is that your repeated/received packets do not then show up in the LIST, which can be confusing, as it was for me as seen in the below. video. I believe the D74 does allow you to view your repeated/received packets in its LIST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woSzJ-PtH2M&feature=youtu.be&t=36 73, John Brier KG4AKV
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I used to know the answer. But too old to remember.
It might be that, even though the radio is full duplex, the TNC might be half duplex? And since the satellite turns around the packet INSTANTLY to the downlink, that the TNC is not ready to receive packets quick enough?
This can be proved not true if anyone has ever seen their own downlink packet.
BUT Wait, all it takes is anything else queued up on a busy downlink to cause the data to be queued up a bit and then you will see your own packet because every thing is waiting a few milliseconds.
So Seeing or not-seeing your own packets may or may not prove anything about this theory.
Back under my rock. Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 4:15 PM To: AMSAT BB [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Standard for AMSAT status board observations of FS-3
one "should" see decoded Msgs in the "MSG" list on the D72A, however. Correct? Rob KA2CZU
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 3:48:07 PM EDT, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hi, John.
I don't recall ever receiving that indication that I've received one of my own packets repeated by FS-3, even when I've been iGated or completed a QSO. However, I'm usually being bombarded by so many non-APRS packets in the downlink on nearly a continuous basis for almost the entire pass that I wouldn't be surprised if the D72's user interface or decoding processing just isn't able to keep up in real time.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 11:56:50 AM PDT, John Brier [email protected] wrote:
At the risk of introducing confusion based on my inexperience using FS-3, I will say that I do know when using the D72 with the ISS digipeater or with any standard simplex digipeater, when your packet is repeated you do get realtime visual and audio indication it was repeated. The radio makes a unique audio alert when it receives its own packets repeated back and the screen flashes "MY POSITION" above "via RS0ISS" or whatever the callsign of the digipeater is. This can be seen in my video below. The limitation I am familiar with is that your repeated/received packets do not then show up in the LIST, which can be confusing, as it was for me as seen in the below. video. I believe the D74 does allow you to view your repeated/received packets in its LIST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woSzJ-PtH2M&feature=youtu.be&t=36 73, John Brier KG4AKV
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
No, I see the messages that I sent. I don't think I'm seeing messages that I sent and then received back and decoded. The radio knows (and stores) what I sent even if it never receives it back. And I can't see the beacons that I sent.
73, Ryan AI6DO
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 1:16:14 PM PDT, Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
one "should" see decoded Msgs in the "MSG" list on the D72A, however. Correct? Rob KA2CZU
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 3:48:07 PM EDT, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hi, John.
I don't recall ever receiving that indication that I've received one of my own packets repeated by FS-3, even when I've been iGated or completed a QSO. However, I'm usually being bombarded by so many non-APRS packets in the downlink on nearly a continuous basis for almost the entire pass that I wouldn't be surprised if the D72's user interface or decoding processing just isn't able to keep up in real time.
73, Ryan AI6DO
Hi Ryan!
I'm with you on how to report on the AMSAT status page. If I don't see my packets being digipeated when using my TH-D72 or TM-D710, I mark my reports as "Downlink Only". If I see my packets being digipeated, or I see other stations using the digipeater, I'll go with "Uplink and Downlink Active".
As for the pass times, they gradually move earlier in the day. I have what should be some decent passes this afternoon, and I hope to work one or two of them from the Prescott Hamfest in north-central Arizona later with my TH-D72 & Elk - same setup I used last week, when I worked you via FalconSat-3.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded, then clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive any APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the same configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm working FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand ol' time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that appropriate? I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later today.
73, Ryan AI6DO
Hi All,
I guess this Is a difference between the general user and me as a command station :-) if I see a report that it’s downlink only, it triggers a bit of anxiety regarding the operation of the satellite.
If I were to listen to AO-92, but was unable to hear myself when transmitting, should I report downlink only? Different, but similar.
I guess my point is this, not hearing anything doesn’t mean it’s not working. A report of Downlink only to me, anyhow, implies something is wrong with the satellite. See the subtlety?
Here’s another nuance, figure the status report is a satellite status report, not a users experience report.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter :-) I’m glad to see the reports are being made for our satellites. It’s helpful, sometimes even when it’s not very precise.
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Ryan!
I'm with you on how to report on the AMSAT status page. If I don't see my packets being digipeated when using my TH-D72 or TM-D710, I mark my reports as "Downlink Only". If I see my packets being digipeated, or I see other stations using the digipeater, I'll go with "Uplink and Downlink Active".
As for the pass times, they gradually move earlier in the day. I have what should be some decent passes this afternoon, and I hope to work one or two of them from the Prescott Hamfest in north-central Arizona later with my TH-D72 & Elk - same setup I used last week, when I worked you via FalconSat-3.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded,
then
clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive
any
APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the
same
configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm
working
FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand
ol'
time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that appropriate? I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later
today.
73, Ryan AI6DO
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mark,
Serious question from a newbie:
Case 1: I hear no traffic from the bird, and nothing I send digipeats. How should we report it? Case 2: I hear other traffic from the bird, but nothing I send digipeats. How should we report it?
In case 1, are we supposed to assume that since we can hear traffic from other users, the uplink and downlink are both active?
In case 2, how do we distinguish between "something is wrong with the bird" and "something is wrong with how I'm trying to send?"
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected] web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 12:45 PM To: [email protected] Cc: AMSAT [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Standard for AMSAT status board observations of FS-3
Hi All,
I guess this Is a difference between the general user and me as a command station :-) if I see a report that it’s downlink only, it triggers a bit of anxiety regarding the operation of the satellite.
If I were to listen to AO-92, but was unable to hear myself when transmitting, should I report downlink only? Different, but similar.
I guess my point is this, not hearing anything doesn’t mean it’s not working. A report of Downlink only to me, anyhow, implies something is wrong with the satellite. See the subtlety?
Here’s another nuance, figure the status report is a satellite status report, not a users experience report.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter :-) I’m glad to see the reports are being made for our satellites. It’s helpful, sometimes even when it’s not very precise.
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Ryan!
I'm with you on how to report on the AMSAT status page. If I don't see my packets being digipeated when using my TH-D72 or TM-D710, I mark my reports as "Downlink Only". If I see my packets being digipeated, or I see other stations using the digipeater, I'll go with "Uplink and Downlink Active".
As for the pass times, they gradually move earlier in the day. I have what should be some decent passes this afternoon, and I hope to work one or two of them from the Prescott Hamfest in north-central Arizona later with my TH-D72 & Elk - same setup I used last week, when I worked you via FalconSat-3.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded,
then
clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive
any
APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the
same
configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm
working
FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand
ol'
time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that appropriate? I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later
today.
73, Ryan AI6DO
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Devin, guess my advice is to use good judgment and logic :) I’m no expert on how we should report. Just making the point about the possible ambiguity in some reporting.
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 4:17 PM Devin L. Ganger [email protected] wrote:
Mark,
Serious question from a newbie:
Case 1: I hear no traffic from the bird, and nothing I send digipeats. How should we report it? Case 2: I hear other traffic from the bird, but nothing I send digipeats. How should we report it?
In case 1, are we supposed to assume that since we can hear traffic from other users, the uplink and downlink are both active?
In case 2, how do we distinguish between "something is wrong with the bird" and "something is wrong with how I'm trying to send?"
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected] web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 12:45 PM To: [email protected] Cc: AMSAT [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Standard for AMSAT status board observations of FS-3
Hi All,
I guess this Is a difference between the general user and me as a command station :-) if I see a report that it’s downlink only, it triggers a bit of anxiety regarding the operation of the satellite.
If I were to listen to AO-92, but was unable to hear myself when transmitting, should I report downlink only? Different, but similar.
I guess my point is this, not hearing anything doesn’t mean it’s not working. A report of Downlink only to me, anyhow, implies something is wrong with the satellite. See the subtlety?
Here’s another nuance, figure the status report is a satellite status report, not a users experience report.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter :-) I’m glad to see the reports are being made for our satellites. It’s helpful, sometimes even when it’s not very precise.
Mark N8MH
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Ryan!
I'm with you on how to report on the AMSAT status page. If I don't see my packets being digipeated when using my TH-D72 or TM-D710, I mark my reports as "Downlink Only". If I see my packets being digipeated, or I see other stations using the digipeater, I'll go with "Uplink and Downlink Active".
As for the pass times, they gradually move earlier in the day. I have what should be some decent passes this afternoon, and I hope to work one or two of them from the Prescott Hamfest in north-central Arizona later with my TH-D72 & Elk - same setup I used last week, when I worked you via FalconSat-3.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded,
then
clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive
any
APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the
same
configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm
working
FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand
ol'
time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that
appropriate?
I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later
today.
73, Ryan AI6DO
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I thought it was only me... I tried yesterday and was unable to get digipeated. Rob KA2CZU
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 10:29:38 AM EDT, Ryan Noguchi via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
I've been reporting my observations on the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satellite Status page. For the FM and linear satellites, it's a no-brainer: if I hear live traffic on the bird, or if I hear myself being transponded, then clearly "Uplink and Downlink Active" is appropriate.
However, for the packet satellites, what's the criteria for reporting the uplink as active? The past two days, I've received continuous streams of non-APRS packets from FalconSat-3 on two passes, but despite manually sending my beacons many times on each pass, I don't get digipeated (at least no iGate seems to be picking up the traffic) and I don't receive any APRS packets from anyone else. My TH-D72A is properly configured per Patrick WD9EWK's excellent tutorial, and I've made QSOs earlier in the week with the radio in the same configuration it's in now. The only difference seems to be that I'm working FS-3 much earlier in the day, on a weekday, than I have in the past. I'm just using a TH-D72A, so for all I know, a dozen ops are having a grand ol' time on the BBS.
I've been reporting these passes as "Downlink Only." Is that appropriate? I seem to be the only one this week who reported FalconSat-3 as anything but open for business. I'm planning to try one or more passes later today.
73, Ryan AI6DO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (7)
-
Devin L. Ganger -
John Brier -
Mark L. Hammond -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Robert Bruninga -
Robert Switzer -
Ryan Noguchi