What happens when you loose a satellite
With things like the Falcon launch failure you obviously loose the satellite, but do you get another launch having paid you money or is that it. You loose everything if the launch fails
If the later then the launch of P3E and P5A could prove very expensive if the launch fails.
Keith & Jenny Sloan wrote:
With things like the Falcon launch failure you obviously loose the satellite, but do you get another launch having paid you money or is that it. You loose everything if the launch fails
If the later then the launch of P3E and P5A could prove very expensive if the launch fails.
From what I've heard, there's insurance for both the loss of the launch and the payload.
Neither are cheap, from what I can gather as a casual bystander.
You can find references to the insurance in news articles about failed launches of bigger "stuff", like the Dish Network failure to attain orbit earlier this year.
It was up to Dish, the launcher, the operator, and the insurance company as to what they would do when they realized they had a stage fail and didn't get as high as they wanted to.
There was an option of using a moon-slingshot to get the bird to its final orbit, but my reading of the articles led to them having two problems: It would use a LOT of propellant, meaning the bird would have a lot less useful life on-station than was originally expected, and Boeing claims to have a PATENT on the technique. (Rolls eyes.)
Last I read, the mixture of those two things caused them to decide to scrap the bird and take the insurance money.
Then I assume such a bird becomes the property of the Insurance company and if possible, I assume they splash the bird, to "get it out of the way" if possible (depending on the failure).
All of that can probably take a very long time if there's any variables that might change things... but I don't know. This is all conjecture on my part. Maybe it'll spurn some of the experts to come forward and tell it like it really is? :-)
I'm sure those are lovely meetings, full of lots of lawyers. :-)
Nate WY0X
--- On Thu, 7/8/08, Keith & Jenny Sloan keith@sloan-home.co.uk wrote:
With things like the Falcon launch failure you obviously loose the satellite, but do you get another launch having paid you money or is that it. You loose everything if the launch fails
If the later then the launch of P3E and P5A could prove very expensive if the launch fails.
I'm not aware of any Amateur satellites that have had launch insurance. If the launch fails you lose everything.
The bottom line is money, Amateur groups don't have a spare half million dollars to buy insurance.
Many 'free' or very low cost launches tend to be on those rockets with the highest risk of failure.
73 Trevor M5AKA
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Launch insurance...
I could be wrong but I think that Phase 3A had an insurance policy (if memory serves)...the Ariane IV went Bang...
do I recall this correctly?
Robert WB5MZO> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:44:13 +0000> From: m5aka@yahoo.co.uk> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Keith & Jenny Sloan keith@sloan-home.co.uk wrote:> > With things like the Falcon launch failure you obviously> > loose the > > satellite, but do you get> > another launch having paid you money or is that it. You> > loose everything > > if the launch fails> > > > If the later then the launch of P3E and P5A could prove> > very expensive > > if the launch fails.> > I'm not aware of any Amateur satellites that have had launch insurance. > If the launch fails you lose everything. > > The bottom line is money, Amateur groups don't have a spare half million dollars to buy insurance. > > Many 'free' or very low cost launches tend to be on those rockets with the highest risk of failure.> > 73 Trevor M5AKA> > > > __________________________________________________________> Not happy with your email address?.> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html%3E > _______________________________________________> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _________________________________________________________________ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGL...
Rocky Jones wrote:
Launch insurance...
I could be wrong but I think that Phase 3A had an insurance policy (if memory serves)...the Ariane IV went Bang...
do I recall this correctly?
To my knowledge it was P3-B (OSCAR-10) with Ariane-1 L06. And yes, they had to pay some money because P3-B was bumped by the last rocket stage and did not get it to the planned orbit....
But forget it... in the early days it was still expensive, but not comparable what you nowadays have to pay for such insurance. However, some launch providers (like Arianespace) will give you now a free launch in case the launcher failed...
73s Peter DB2OS
BTW:* SpaceX updated its launch manifest. Most notably, the NASA COTS missions are moved down the list.*
ATSB (Malaysia) Q3 2008* Falcon 1 Kwajalein
US Government Q4 2008* Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Avanti Communications (UK) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 1 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 2 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
SpaceDev 2009 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
NASA COTS – Demo 3 2010 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Swedish Space Corp. (Sweden) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Bigelow Aerospace 2011 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Peter I am pretty sure it was not Oscar 10 but the launch before it...AS I recall Phase3A was launched with a spacecraft called "firefly"...and one more which I dont remember (AMPTE?)and of course all three were lost..
But I agree now days the money is absurd.
Sure wish we had Oscar 10 back...
Robert WB5MZO
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:52:41 +0200 From: peter.guelzow@kourou.de To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite
Rocky Jones wrote:
Launch insurance...
I could be wrong but I think that Phase 3A had an insurance policy (if memory serves)...the Ariane IV went Bang...
do I recall this correctly?
To my knowledge it was P3-B (OSCAR-10) with Ariane-1 L06. And yes, they had to pay some money because P3-B was bumped by the last rocket stage and did not get it to the planned orbit....
But forget it... in the early days it was still expensive, but not comparable what you nowadays have to pay for such insurance. However, some launch providers (like Arianespace) will give you now a free launch in case the launcher failed...
73s Peter DB2OS
BTW:* SpaceX updated its launch manifest. Most notably, the NASA COTS missions are moved down the list.*
ATSB (Malaysia) Q3 2008* Falcon 1 Kwajalein
US Government Q4 2008* Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Avanti Communications (UK) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 1 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 2 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
SpaceDev 2009 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
NASA COTS – Demo 3 2010 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Swedish Space Corp. (Sweden) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Bigelow Aerospace 2011 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Hi Robert, WB5MZO
P3-A the first HEO built by AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-NA was similar to OSCAR-10 but it was lost in the atlantic ocean with the main satellite called "Firewheel" and another small satellite called Subsat because a pump of fuel of the first stage of the ARIANE 1 flight L-02 failed and the 23 may 1980 was a black day for all of us but I don't remember if P3-A had an insurance policy or not.
Peter DB2OS should have this information.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Jones" orbitjet@hotmail.com To: "Peter Guelzow" peter.guelzow@kourou.de; "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite
Peter I am pretty sure it was not Oscar 10 but the launch before it...AS I recall Phase3A was launched with a spacecraft called "firefly"...and one more which I dont remember (AMPTE?)and of course all three were lost..
But I agree now days the money is absurd.
Sure wish we had Oscar 10 back...
Robert WB5MZO
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:52:41 +0200 From: peter.guelzow@kourou.de To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite
Rocky Jones wrote:
Launch insurance...
I could be wrong but I think that Phase 3A had an insurance policy (if
memory serves)...the Ariane IV went Bang...
do I recall this correctly?
To my knowledge it was P3-B (OSCAR-10) with Ariane-1 L06. And yes, they had to pay some money because P3-B was bumped by the last rocket stage and did not get it to the planned orbit....
But forget it... in the early days it was still expensive, but not comparable what you nowadays have to pay for such insurance. However, some launch providers (like Arianespace) will give you now a free launch in case the launcher failed...
73s Peter DB2OS
BTW:* SpaceX updated its launch manifest. Most notably, the NASA COTS missions are moved down the list.*
ATSB (Malaysia) Q3 2008* Falcon 1 Kwajalein
US Government Q4 2008* Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Avanti Communications (UK) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 1 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 2 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
SpaceDev 2009 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
NASA COTS – Demo 3 2010 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Swedish Space Corp. (Sweden) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Bigelow Aerospace 2011 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_________________________________________________________________ Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008 _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Domenico i8CVS thanks for the correction..."fire" stuck in my mind...but I was working off of memory and sometimes on somethings my mind is like a shelf...you put something on it somethingelse has to fall off!
BTW your post here are usually quite impressive...nice going.
73's
Robert
From: domenico.i8cvs@tin.it To: orbitjet@hotmail.com; peter.guelzow@kourou.de; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 21:11:58 +0200
Hi Robert, WB5MZO
P3-A the first HEO built by AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-NA was similar to OSCAR-10 but it was lost in the atlantic ocean with the main satellite called "Firewheel" and another small satellite called Subsat because a pump of fuel of the first stage of the ARIANE 1 flight L-02 failed and the 23 may 1980 was a black day for all of us but I don't remember if P3-A had an insurance policy or not.
Peter DB2OS should have this information.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Jones" To: "Peter Guelzow" ; "AMSAT BB"
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite
Peter I am pretty sure it was not Oscar 10 but the launch before it...AS I recall Phase3A was launched with a spacecraft called "firefly"...and one more which I dont remember (AMPTE?)and of course all three were lost..
But I agree now days the money is absurd.
Sure wish we had Oscar 10 back...
Robert WB5MZO
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:52:41 +0200 From: peter.guelzow@kourou.de To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: What happens when you loose a satellite
Rocky Jones wrote:
Launch insurance...
I could be wrong but I think that Phase 3A had an insurance policy (if
memory serves)...the Ariane IV went Bang...
do I recall this correctly?
To my knowledge it was P3-B (OSCAR-10) with Ariane-1 L06. And yes, they had to pay some money because P3-B was bumped by the last rocket stage and did not get it to the planned orbit....
But forget it... in the early days it was still expensive, but not comparable what you nowadays have to pay for such insurance. However, some launch providers (like Arianespace) will give you now a free launch in case the launcher failed...
73s Peter DB2OS
BTW:* SpaceX updated its launch manifest. Most notably, the NASA COTS missions are moved down the list.*
ATSB (Malaysia) Q3 2008* Falcon 1 Kwajalein
US Government Q4 2008* Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Avanti Communications (UK) 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 1 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
NASA COTS – Demo 2 2009 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
SpaceDev 2009 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
NASA COTS – Demo 3 2010 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
MDA Corp. (Canada) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Swedish Space Corp. (Sweden) 2010 Falcon 1 Kwajalein
Bigelow Aerospace 2011 Falcon 9 Cape Canaveral
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008 _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_________________________________________________________________ Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008
participants (6)
-
i8cvs -
Keith & Jenny Sloan -
Nate Duehr -
Peter Guelzow -
Rocky Jones -
Trevor