Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
In the case of EMP, all communications will revert to 3.885 MHz...
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: sco@sco-inc.com To: "amsat-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Safekeep Sat Radios
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
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3.885 MHz on a TUBE radio... MAYBE... if you're lucky. The military did a HEMP test above the south pacific in the 1960's. It killed 1960's cars (no microprocessors) as far away as Hawaii. If that happens, the scrap metal market will drop out because of the sudden surplus of everything with a microprocessor in it. (I counted 15 microprocessors within line of sight sitting here in my living room)
If you want to get on the air (it will be VERY quiet) after one of those events, put an entire station in a really nicely shielded box right now and leave it there. In fact, that may be a really great time to get on the air! Think of all the RF hash that will disappear! No pesky internet over power lines to deal with! Of course, you'll have to power everything by battery, or solar..... if you can get home from work... after your car becomes a big paperweight. Even today's diesel engines have micros stuck all over them.
My parents have some amish families living around them. They won't even know anything happened except that they won't have cars swerving around them anymore.
There's always soup cans and string.
Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kolakowski" rogerkola@aol.com To: "amsat-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org; sco@sco-inc.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 5:50 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Safekeep Sat Radios
In the case of EMP, all communications will revert to 3.885 MHz...
Roger WA1KAT
----- Original Message ----- From: sco@sco-inc.com To: "amsat-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:11 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Safekeep Sat Radios
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
In a nuclear war, the satellites are targeted first to blind and cause chaos to the enemy.
While in the military we learned to rely on absolutely nothing satellite based. It is great when it works, but, is a very easy target and easy to destroy.
What would the radios kept in a "safebox" talk to with the satellites gone?
73 Glenn WB4UIV
At 02:11 AM 12/14/07, sco@sco-inc.com wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
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well I am talking about terrorists attacks not missile attacks. Suitcase bombs. Hopefully Bin Laden and Iran can't hit our sats ... now Chuina is another story, they have already done that.
At 09:08 AM 12/14/2007, you wrote:
In a nuclear war, the satellites are targeted first to blind and cause chaos to the enemy.
While in the military we learned to rely on absolutely nothing satellite based. It is great when it works, but, is a very easy target and easy to destroy.
What would the radios kept in a "safebox" talk to with the satellites gone?
73 Glenn WB4UIV
At 02:11 AM 12/14/07, sco@sco-inc.com wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 09:59:55AM -0500, sco@sco-inc.com wrote: ...
What would the radios kept in a "safebox" talk to with the satellites gone?
Keeping HF radios in a safebox would make more sense. This would mean we could talk to each other while dying of radiation poisoning.
- 73 Diane VA3DB -- - db@FreeBSD.org db@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
As I understand it, any equipment you want to survive an EMP had better be inside a Faraday cage that's actually a solid electrically conducting case with no gaps. The ideal would be a packing crate sheathed in copper and soldered shut, not sure if you'd have to go all the way to that extreme or if a tight fitting copper lid would be OK (I'm sure there's been military research done on exactly how tight the seal would need to be). I'm pretty sure that lead-acid wet plate batteries would survive an EMP OK, most of what seems to get fried in EMP events is wire coils and semiconductor junctions due to the enormous induced voltages (a good sized spool of wire in the crate wouldn't be a bad idea, spooled up wire exposed to an EMP tends to fuse into a solid block of copper if I remember corrrectly).
I'd say enough space to house a more or less universal Extra-class coverage HF radio, a versatile and low loss antenna tuner that can load up whatever you can scrounge (probably a random wire or dipole), and a good sized spool of suitable antenna wire if you can fit it in there, and count on leaving this setup packed away ready for use at all times (i.e. treat it as "emergency use only" and don't be tempted to dig it out and put it in the shack except for periodic functionality tests). Probably better to use a less feature-rich but more rugged radio that will get you on the air with just the basics, to reduce the temptation. :)
I wouldn't count on there being too many people out there to talk to after an EMP event, though, and I'd expect there to be really tight restrictions on who was and was not allowed to transmit even on ham frequencies for some time afterward. So having a working transceiver may be of very limited use unless you're on record as belonging to a local ARES chapter and are handling disaster relief traffic ..
On Dec 14, 2007, at 1:11 AM, sco@sco-inc.com wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
HAH, YES. HE ACTUALLY SAYS IN HIS LETTER, "I BET YOU DON'T EXIST 'COS EVERYONE KNOWS ITS YORE PARENTS." OH YES, said Death, with what almost sounded like sarcasm, I'M SURE HIS PARENTS ARE JUST IMPATIENT TO BANG THEIR ELBOWS IN TWELVE FEET OF NARROW UNSWEPT CHIMNEY, I DON'T THINK.
(: HAPPY HOGSWATCH :)
Put all those old FT-101E's to bed! If there is a limited nuclear EMP then probably gov't is non-functional like Katrina! All out Nuclear exchange...pray there is anyone left to talk to.
At 07:17 AM 12/14/2007, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
As I understand it, any equipment you want to survive an EMP had better be inside a Faraday cage that's actually a solid electrically conducting case with no gaps. The ideal would be a packing crate sheathed in copper and soldered shut, not sure if you'd have to go all the way to that extreme or if a tight fitting copper lid would be OK (I'm sure there's been military research done on exactly how tight the seal would need to be). I'm pretty sure that lead-acid wet plate batteries would survive an EMP OK, most of what seems to get fried in EMP events is wire coils and semiconductor junctions due to the enormous induced voltages (a good sized spool of wire in the crate wouldn't be a bad idea, spooled up wire exposed to an EMP tends to fuse into a solid block of copper if I remember corrrectly).
I'd say enough space to house a more or less universal Extra-class coverage HF radio, a versatile and low loss antenna tuner that can load up whatever you can scrounge (probably a random wire or dipole), and a good sized spool of suitable antenna wire if you can fit it in there, and count on leaving this setup packed away ready for use at all times (i.e. treat it as "emergency use only" and don't be tempted to dig it out and put it in the shack except for periodic functionality tests). Probably better to use a less feature-rich but more rugged radio that will get you on the air with just the basics, to reduce the temptation. :)
I wouldn't count on there being too many people out there to talk to after an EMP event, though, and I'd expect there to be really tight restrictions on who was and was not allowed to transmit even on ham frequencies for some time afterward. So having a working transceiver may be of very limited use unless you're on record as belonging to a local ARES chapter and are handling disaster relief traffic ..
On Dec 14, 2007, at 1:11 AM, sco@sco-inc.com wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
HAH, YES. HE ACTUALLY SAYS IN HIS LETTER, "I BET YOU DON'T EXIST 'COS EVERYONE KNOWS ITS YORE PARENTS." OH YES, said Death, with what almost sounded like sarcasm, I'M SURE HIS PARENTS ARE JUST IMPATIENT TO BANG THEIR ELBOWS IN TWELVE FEET OF NARROW UNSWEPT CHIMNEY, I DON'T THINK.
(: HAPPY HOGSWATCH :)
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW ====================================== BP40IQ 50-MHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xpol-20, 185w DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@hotmail.com ======================================
Just use good lightng arrestors -- many will protect against EMP. Of course, since EMP is generated by exploding a bomb in the stratosphere, we don't have to worry about this in terrorist attacks.
73,
John, KD6OZH
----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Cole" kl7uw@acsalaska.net To: "Bruce Bostwick" lihan161051@sbcglobal.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 07:39 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Safekeep Sat Radios
Put all those old FT-101E's to bed! If there is a limited nuclear EMP then probably gov't is non-functional like Katrina! All out Nuclear exchange...pray there is anyone left to talk to.
At 07:17 AM 12/14/2007, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
As I understand it, any equipment you want to survive an EMP had better be inside a Faraday cage that's actually a solid electrically conducting case with no gaps. The ideal would be a packing crate sheathed in copper and soldered shut, not sure if you'd have to go all the way to that extreme or if a tight fitting copper lid would be OK (I'm sure there's been military research done on exactly how tight the seal would need to be). I'm pretty sure that lead-acid wet plate batteries would survive an EMP OK, most of what seems to get fried in EMP events is wire coils and semiconductor junctions due to the enormous induced voltages (a good sized spool of wire in the crate wouldn't be a bad idea, spooled up wire exposed to an EMP tends to fuse into a solid block of copper if I remember corrrectly).
I'd say enough space to house a more or less universal Extra-class coverage HF radio, a versatile and low loss antenna tuner that can load up whatever you can scrounge (probably a random wire or dipole), and a good sized spool of suitable antenna wire if you can fit it in there, and count on leaving this setup packed away ready for use at all times (i.e. treat it as "emergency use only" and don't be tempted to dig it out and put it in the shack except for periodic functionality tests). Probably better to use a less feature-rich but more rugged radio that will get you on the air with just the basics, to reduce the temptation. :)
I wouldn't count on there being too many people out there to talk to after an EMP event, though, and I'd expect there to be really tight restrictions on who was and was not allowed to transmit even on ham frequencies for some time afterward. So having a working transceiver may be of very limited use unless you're on record as belonging to a local ARES chapter and are handling disaster relief traffic ..
On Dec 14, 2007, at 1:11 AM, sco@sco-inc.com wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category.
Les W4SCO
HAH, YES. HE ACTUALLY SAYS IN HIS LETTER, "I BET YOU DON'T EXIST 'COS EVERYONE KNOWS ITS YORE PARENTS." OH YES, said Death, with what almost sounded like sarcasm, I'M SURE HIS PARENTS ARE JUST IMPATIENT TO BANG THEIR ELBOWS IN TWELVE FEET OF NARROW UNSWEPT CHIMNEY, I DON'T THINK.
(: HAPPY HOGSWATCH :)
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW ====================================== BP40IQ 50-MHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xpol-20, 185w DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@hotmail.com ======================================
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
At 06:14 PM 12/15/2007, you wrote:
Just use good lightng arrestors -- many will protect against EMP. Of course, since EMP is generated by exploding a bomb in the stratosphere, we don't have to worry about this in terrorist attacks.
73,
John, KD6OZH
why would you say no worry? a suitcase bomb in a private plane, owned, rented or stolen (by terrorists) would have the same effect at 10,000 feet as if it were delivered via a missile.
The EMP damage zone would exceed the blast zone and even the radiation zone if you were upwind.
Les W4SCO
participants (8)
-
Bruce Bostwick -
Diane Bruce -
Edward Cole -
Glenn Little WB4UIV -
John B. Stephensen -
Roger Kolakowski -
sco＠sco-inc.com -
Tyler Harpster