Re: IARU Region 1 - Increased Amateur Sat 2 Metre Usage
From the newsletter:
"...In particular, at least in Region 1, the segment between 144.315 and 144.365 MHz has become much quieter...."
Actually the segment from 144.360 to 144.370 is widely used by FSK441 and it would keep almost the 50% of the uplink on the trasponders since the TX period are consecutives.
Even international contests are not so much on this band, sats will be capable to reach people doing local contests (about 2-3 each weekend on region 1) with a lot of problems in order to work sats during the weekends !
In my opinion the best segment should be around 144.000 and 144040.
73 Fabio Roccatagliata
IZ1EGT / F5VKV
On 8/25/06, Trevor m5aka@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
The latest issue of the IARU Region 1 VHF-UHF-uW Newsletter contains an interesting discussion paper on "Increased Amateur Satellite Service 2 Metre Usage" - it's well worth a read.
The IARU Region 1 VHF-UHF-uW Newsletter Edition 43a PDF is at http://www.iaru-r1.org/Newsletter_43a.pdf
The newsletter webpage is at http://www.iaru-r1.org/VHF%20Newsletters.htm
73 Trevor M5AKA
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabio Roccatagliata" roccaf@gmail.com To: "Trevor" m5aka@yahoo.co.uk Cc: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IARU Region 1 - Increased Amateur Sat 2 Metre Usage
From the newsletter:
"...In particular, at least in Region 1, the segment between 144.315 and 144.365 MHz has become much quieter...."
Actually the segment from 144.360 to 144.370 is widely used by FSK441 and it would keep almost the 50% of the uplink on the trasponders since the TX period are consecutives.
Even international contests are not so much on this band, sats will be capable to reach people doing local contests (about 2-3 each weekend on region 1) with a lot of problems in order to work sats during the weekends !
In my opinion the best segment should be around 144.000 and 144040.
73 Fabio Roccatagliata
IZ1EGT / F5VKV
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Unfortunately I cannot open the page
Glad if you or Trevor can send to me the above 43a.pdf file as an attachement.
Anyway according to the actual 144-146 MHz Bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz that you propose is used world-wide for 2 meters EME (SSB & Telegraphy )...........WOW ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
I know the 144.000/144.035 is world-wide assigned to EME but actually all the EME contacts are almost made from 144.100 and above. Doing a research on the cluster there are no EME contacts on the segment I said. The newsletter proposed to use the segment 144.315-144.365 for sat uplink that, in my opinion, I think is more used.
In any case, since the bandplan covers all the 144-146Mhz segment, I suppose something has to be moved away if a sat reassignation frequencies has to be made so the question is: Which segment is more suitable for that ?
73 Fabio IZ1EGT/F5VKV
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Unfortunately I cannot open the page
Glad if you or Trevor can send to me the above 43a.pdf file as an attachement.
Anyway according to the actual 144-146 MHz Bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz that you propose is used world-wide for 2 meters EME (SSB & Telegraphy )...........WOW ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Not True! CW 2m-EME is 144.020-144.100, and digital EME is 144.100-144.700. Digital EME refers to the mode JT65 designed by W1JT which began about 2003 with JT44 (its predecessor).
The area below 144.020 is filled with birdies nearly world-wide and useless for any "weak-signal" operation Including satellite. Just because one may not hear much local activity on those frequencies does not mean that they are not occupied by eme signals. One can point a single 22 element satellite x-yagi at the Moon and with 100-200w operate digital eme these days. The signal from such a small station are not audible but the powerful JT65 sw can dig them out of the noise. I have over 70 contacts on eme with 125w at my antenna terminals, yet you would not hear my signal if over 100 miles away from me if merely listening by ear (I would detect your 10w signal even pointing above the horizon).
In Europe, I understand that 144-144.100 is used for terrestrial DX (tropo, ms, FAI and auroral propagation). You will not find the "weak signal" CW community willing to lose the last suband that they have (100 KHz out of 2 MHz). Satellite has 145.800-146 MHz at present. If 144.300 subband has been occupied by other modes it is due to inactivity by satellite. I would guess there is no spectrum available for satellite to move on the 2m band.
73's Ed - KL7UW
At 01:42 PM 8/28/2006 +0200, Fabio Roccatagliata wrote:
I know the 144.000/144.035 is world-wide assigned to EME but actually all the EME contacts are almost made from 144.100 and above. Doing a research on the cluster there are no EME contacts on the segment I
said.
The newsletter proposed to use the segment 144.315-144.365 for sat uplink that, in my opinion, I think is more used.
In any case, since the bandplan covers all the 144-146Mhz segment, I suppose something has to be moved away if a sat reassignation frequencies has to be made so the question is: Which segment is more suitable for that ?
73 Fabio IZ1EGT/F5VKV
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Unfortunately I cannot open the page
Glad if you or Trevor can send to me the above 43a.pdf file as an attachement.
Anyway according to the actual 144-146 MHz Bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz that you propose is used world-wide for 2 meters EME (SSB & Telegraphy )...........WOW ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73's, Ed - KL7UW ========================================= http://www.qsl.net/al7eb - BP40iq 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801/1402, 4xM2-xpol-20, 170w 432-EME: FT-847, mgf-1402, 1x21-ele (18.6 dBi), 60w =========================================
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabio Roccatagliata" roccaf@gmail.com To: "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it Cc: "Trevor" m5aka@yahoo.co.uk; "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: IARU Region 1 - Increased Amateur Sat 2 Metre Usage
I know the 144.000/144.035 is world-wide assigned to EME but actually all the EME contacts are almost made from 144.100 and above.
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Following the 2 meters bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.035 to 144.150 MHz is for Telegraphy. In details 144.140 to 144.150 MHz is for EME and FAI activity telegraphy and 144.150 to 144.160 MHz is for EME and FAI activity SSB so that if the EME contacts are almost made from 144.100 MHz and above it is correct.
Doing a research on the cluster there are no EME contacts on the segment I
said.
If there is no EME activity on the cluster is because 10 years ago the segment 144.000 to 145.035 was interfered by birdies coming from the old early time computers like 486 using low frequency clock and infact during the IARU Region-1 Conference 1999 the following DARC proposal was adopted:
VIE (98) 21 SOURCE: DARC SUBJECT: EME-segment in the 144-MHz-Band
SITUATION: The noisy situation in the 144 MHz Moonbounce segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz is still existing and increasing. To reduce the problems of the EME people, the DARC is in favor to create an additional EME-segment in the bandplan.
DARC proposes: The EME moonbounce activity additionally may use the segment 144.140 to 144.160 MHz
The above DARC proposal was approved and passed as an "extension" of the existing 144.000 to 144.035 MHz EME band wich was still considered for EME usage so that......... "it cannot be used for satellite".
Actually computers are using very high frequency clock so that the birdies are not a problem in the actual 144.000 to 144.035 MHz EME band
The newsletter proposed to use the segment 144.315-144.365 for sat uplink that, in my opinion, I think is more used.
I was not able to dowload the file,can you send a copy of it ?
http://www.iaru-r1.org/Newsletter_43a.pdf
but if the proposed uplink wich is wide only 50 KHz is only for NBFM I disagree because following the IARU Region-1 bandplan the segment 144.150 to 144.400 MHz is only for SSB
Much better for NBFM to reuse the already experienced 144.490 MHz for SAREX
Of coarse if the proposed uplink is only for CW and SSB it is too narrow because 50 KHz are not enough for decent satellites in the future.
In any case, since the bandplan covers all the 144-146Mhz segment, I suppose something has to be moved away if a sat reassignation frequencies has to be made so the question is: Which segment is more suitable for that ?
It is very hard to say but Jan ZS6AKV wich is the IARU Satellite Advisor should solve the problem............why not ?
73 Fabio IZ1EGT/F5VKV
Best 73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Unfortunately I cannot open the page
Glad if you or Trevor can send to me the above 43a.pdf file as an attachement.
Anyway according to the actual 144-146 MHz Bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz that you propose is used world-wide for 2 meters EME (SSB & Telegraphy )...........WOW ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Of coarse if the proposed uplink is only for CW and SSB it is too narrow because 50 KHz are not enough for decent satellites in the future.
In the very narrow 2m band, 50 Khz would be more than enough. That's over 20 simultaneous SSB QSO's and dozens of simultanelus CW contacts.. I have Never heard an AMSAT even approach that kind of load.
50 Khz would be great in my opinion.
Bob
Think Quality of the contact, not the Quantity of the contact. A 50 khz band segment would have room for aprox 10 non interfering contacts.
Here is a quick general rule of thumb for non-overlapping channel spacing for the average $ radio or home brew.
CW-HF 2 kHz SSB-HF 5 kHz AM-HF 10 kHz FM-HF (3kdev), 20 kHz FM VHF (5kdev) Terrestrial 20 kHz FM VHF Satellite 25-30 kHz FM UHF Terrestrial 25 kHz FM UHF Satellite 50 kHz
You actual mileage will vary depending on the $$$$ of your system.
73 WF1F
--- Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Of coarse if the proposed uplink is only for CW
and SSB it is
too narrow because 50 KHz are not enough for
decent
satellites in the future.
In the very narrow 2m band, 50 Khz would be more than enough. That's over 20 simultaneous SSB QSO's and dozens of simultanelus CW contacts.. I have Never heard an AMSAT even approach that kind of load.
50 Khz would be great in my opinion.
Bob
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Hi All,
The proposition is for a linear transponder DOWNLINKS only due to the high level of non amateur QRM that is active on the band in many countries/regions around the world which makes the band highly unsuitable for satellite uplinks.
The proposal would not seek to move any existing activities off or away from where they are at present as it is proposed as non exclusive usage and the low pfd would make interference from satellites to other modes fairly unlikely and transient in nature.
----- Original Message ----- From: "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it To: "Fabio Roccatagliata" roccaf@gmail.com Cc: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IARU Region 1 - Increased Amateur Sat 2 Metre Usage
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabio Roccatagliata" roccaf@gmail.com To: "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it Cc: "Trevor" m5aka@yahoo.co.uk; "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: IARU Region 1 - Increased Amateur Sat 2 Metre Usage
I know the 144.000/144.035 is world-wide assigned to EME but actually all the EME contacts are almost made from 144.100 and above.
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Following the 2 meters bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.035 to 144.150 MHz is for Telegraphy. In details 144.140 to 144.150 MHz is for EME and FAI activity telegraphy and 144.150 to 144.160 MHz is for EME and FAI activity SSB so that if the EME contacts are almost made from 144.100 MHz and above it is correct.
Doing a research on the cluster there are no EME contacts on the segment I
said.
If there is no EME activity on the cluster is because 10 years ago the segment 144.000 to 145.035 was interfered by birdies coming from the old early time computers like 486 using low frequency clock and infact during the IARU Region-1 Conference 1999 the following DARC proposal was adopted:
VIE (98) 21 SOURCE: DARC SUBJECT: EME-segment in the 144-MHz-Band
SITUATION: The noisy situation in the 144 MHz Moonbounce segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz is still existing and increasing. To reduce the problems of the EME people, the DARC is in favor to create an additional EME-segment in the bandplan.
DARC proposes: The EME moonbounce activity additionally may use the segment 144.140 to 144.160 MHz
The above DARC proposal was approved and passed as an "extension" of the existing 144.000 to 144.035 MHz EME band wich was still considered for EME usage so that......... "it cannot be used for satellite".
Actually computers are using very high frequency clock so that the birdies are not a problem in the actual 144.000 to 144.035 MHz EME band
The newsletter proposed to use the segment 144.315-144.365 for sat uplink that, in my opinion, I think is more used.
I was not able to dowload the file,can you send a copy of it ?
http://www.iaru-r1.org/Newsletter_43a.pdf
but if the proposed uplink wich is wide only 50 KHz is only for NBFM I disagree because following the IARU Region-1 bandplan the segment 144.150 to 144.400 MHz is only for SSB
Much better for NBFM to reuse the already experienced 144.490 MHz for SAREX
Of coarse if the proposed uplink is only for CW and SSB it is too narrow because 50 KHz are not enough for decent satellites in the future.
In any case, since the bandplan covers all the 144-146Mhz segment, I suppose something has to be moved away if a sat reassignation frequencies has to be made so the question is: Which segment is more suitable for that ?
It is very hard to say but Jan ZS6AKV wich is the IARU Satellite Advisor should solve the problem............why not ?
73 Fabio IZ1EGT/F5VKV
Best 73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Hi Fabio, IZ1EGT
Unfortunately I cannot open the page
Glad if you or Trevor can send to me the above 43a.pdf file as an attachement.
Anyway according to the actual 144-146 MHz Bandplan IARU Region-1 the segment 144.000 to 144.035 MHz that you propose is used world-wide for 2 meters EME (SSB & Telegraphy )...........WOW ! !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (6)
-
Edward R. Cole -
Fabio Roccatagliata -
Graham Shirville -
i8cvs -
MM -
Robert Bruninga