I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't know if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert PTT, doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on high passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the FT-857D will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this problem with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
1. Assert PTT and start talking.
2. Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
3. Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT, tx freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was asserted)
4. My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking and letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink freq) while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best, before I slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the same way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck with the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan
Hasan,
It's a "design feature". As you said, you've been told correctly. It doesn't accept CAT commands for changing frequency whilst in TX.
73, John (M5ET)
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Hasan al-Basri Sent: 01 November 2018 13:54 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-857D and Doppler
I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't know if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert PTT, doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on high passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the FT-857D will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this problem with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
1. Assert PTT and start talking.
2. Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
3. Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT, tx freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was asserted)
4. My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking and letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink freq) while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best, before I slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the same way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck with the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hasan, is this a possible solution?
https://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/Satellite%2520Kit.pdf
Mark N8MH
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM John john@amber.org.uk wrote:
Hasan,
It's a "design feature". As you said, you've been told correctly. It doesn't accept CAT commands for changing frequency whilst in TX.
73, John (M5ET)
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Hasan al-Basri Sent: 01 November 2018 13:54 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-857D and Doppler
I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't know if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert PTT, doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on high passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the FT-857D will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this problem with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
Assert PTT and start talking.
Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT, tx
freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was asserted)
- My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking and letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink freq) while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best, before I slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the same way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck with the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'm curious, does the ft-817 behave the same way??
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:15 AM -0400, "Mark L. Hammond" marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:
Hasan, is this a possible solution?
https://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/Satellite%2520Kit.pdf
Mark N8MH
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM John wrote:
Hasan,
It's a "design feature". As you said, you've been told correctly. It doesn't accept CAT commands for changing frequency whilst in TX.
73, John (M5ET)
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB On Behalf Of Hasan al-Basri Sent: 01 November 2018 13:54 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-857D and Doppler
I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't know if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert PTT, doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on high passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the FT-857D will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this problem with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
Assert PTT and start talking.
Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT, tx
freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was asserted)
- My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking and letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink freq) while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best, before I slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the same way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck with the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The FT897D performs the same way, no CAT frequency adjustment while transmitting.
Rolf NR0T
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018, 10:52 AM <w0km@cox.net wrote:
I'm curious, does the ft-817 behave the same way??
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:15 AM -0400, "Mark L. Hammond" < marklhammond@gmail.com> wrote:
Hasan, is this a possible solution?
https://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/Satellite%2520Kit.pdf
Mark N8MH
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM John wrote:
Hasan,
It's a "design feature". As you said, you've been told correctly. It doesn't accept CAT commands for changing frequency whilst in TX.
73, John (M5ET)
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB On Behalf Of Hasan al-Basri Sent: 01 November 2018 13:54 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-857D and Doppler
I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't
know
if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert PTT, doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on high passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the
FT-857D
will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this
problem
with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
Assert PTT and start talking.
Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT,
tx
freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was
asserted)
- My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking
and
letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink freq) while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best,
before I
slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the
same
way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck
with
the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yep, it works the same way. Not sure about the FT-818, but I have no reason to believe it won’t behave the same as well.
Dan -- Daniel Holmes, danielh@holmesonics.com "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin
On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:47 AM, w0km@cox.net wrote:
I'm curious, does the ft-817 behave the same way??
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:15 AM -0400, "Mark L. Hammond" marklhammond@gmail.com wrote:
Hasan, is this a possible solution?
https://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/Satellite%2520Kit.pdf
Mark N8MH
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM John wrote:
Hasan,
It's a "design feature". As you said, you've been told correctly. It doesn't accept CAT commands for changing frequency whilst in TX.
73, John (M5ET)
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB On Behalf Of Hasan al-Basri Sent: 01 November 2018 13:54 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-857D and Doppler
I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't know if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert PTT, doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on high passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the FT-857D will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this problem with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
Assert PTT and start talking.
Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT, tx
freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was asserted)
- My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking and letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink freq) while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best, before I slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the same way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck with the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks to all of you. Now I can stop chasing my tail and concentrate on becoming skilled at manually changing my uplink VFO while PTT is asserted, and drop PTT to let doppler recover.
..and N8MH, no that won't solve it. This is a hardware issue in the FT-857D/817/818 series. I don't know if it applies to any others.
As it turns out, while a bit klunky, the 857d works very well. Participated in a 5 way SSB qso on CAS-4A earlier today and had 5 consecutive SSB qsos with VE3ECO on various birds, using the manual uplink adjustment, with snap back after PTT release.
I am using the FT-857d with M2 Eggbeaters up only seven feet, with a LOT of vegetation loss on the uplink.
thanks for the info, 73, N0AN Hasan
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:44 PM Daniel Holmes danielh@holmesonics.com wrote:
Yep, it works the same way. Not sure about the FT-818, but I have no reason to believe it won’t behave the same as well.
Dan
Daniel Holmes, danielh@holmesonics.com "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin
On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:47 AM, w0km@cox.net wrote:
I'm curious, does the ft-817 behave the same way??
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:15 AM -0400, "Mark L. Hammond" <
marklhammond@gmail.com> wrote:
Hasan, is this a possible solution?
https://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/Satellite%2520Kit.pdf
Mark N8MH
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM John wrote:
Hasan,
It's a "design feature". As you said, you've been told correctly. It doesn't accept CAT commands for changing frequency whilst in TX.
73, John (M5ET)
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB On Behalf Of Hasan al-Basri Sent: 01 November 2018 13:54 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-857D and Doppler
I have been told that this radio will not accept CAT doppler adjustments while it is transmitting. I definitely see that it doesn't, but don't
know
if I might be doing something wrong.
Here is how it behaves:
If not transmitting, doppler correction works perfectly. As I assert
PTT,
doppler adjustment stops and I slide up the band...pretty quickly on
high
passes. If I hold the ptt for more than a couple of seconds, I will go right out of the passband of my 2.2 kHz filter...and of course become unintelligible.
As soon as I drop PTT, and key the mike again, I'm dead on freq...and as long as I hold the PTT on, I drift up the band. *It appears the the
FT-857D
will not accept CAT commands while PTT is asserted.*
At this point I need to know that there is no real solution to this
problem
with this radio. If that's true, I can get pretty good at doing this:
Assert PTT and start talking.
Grab VFO knob, adjust as I talk to keep sounding good.
Drop PTT and begin to listen to other station. (at the drop of PTT,
tx
freq snaps to "proper" place that it couldn't get to when PTT was
asserted)
- My turn to talk: Assert PTT and I'm dead on freq where I belong.
Basically, I'm doing manual uplink adjustment to freq while I'm talking
and
letting the CAT adjustment for doppler to take place (to the uplink
freq)
while I'm listening.
*If there is a better way to do this, please advise*.
Note, it is not practical to drop PTT quickly enough and often enough to prevent the problem...I can only speak a couple syllables at best,
before I
slide away.
Equipment and Setup:
Rx: SDRPlay RSP2 Sofware Defined Radio with SDR Console v 3.03 providing Doppler to Rx
Tx: Yaesu FT-857D controlled as External Radio by SDR Console v 3.03 providing doppler correction to the External Radio.
p.s. I have tried other doppler control programs and they behave the
same
way.
Any and all help would be most appreciated, even simply: You are stuck
with
the way you are currently doing it.
73, N0AN
Hasan _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (6)
-
Daniel Holmes -
Hasan al-Basri -
John -
Mark L. Hammond -
Rolf Krogstad -
w0km＠cox.net