So last week, Fox 1E was opened up to, well, challenging use. Downlink power is quite low so the encouragement is to use highly efficient modes like FT4 or CW as SSB may prove difficult.
Since that announcement, I have not heard much from BB members, on whether they have been able to make contacts, and if so, how much/little power was needed to get through. The article on "Characterization" of the bird, and the subsequent info on it's being opened for what use can be made of it, did not address this topic. If one were to try it, I am sure they may feel it would take a quite substantial uplink power to be heard back. B ut maybe not so much power anyway.
I, and I am sure others, are interested in hearing from folks who have attempted and failed, or succeeded in at least hearing themselves, or even making a QSO, as to how much uplink power it did take.
Hi Tom,
Try around 100-500W EIRP. The issue is complicated further because the bird spins and signals vary tremendously. When ideal, 5W into M2 Leo Pack can work. When poor, it’s like 100W in shack to a 10’ yagi isn’t enough.
So, 5-100W into a yagi. Wide range.
The downlink is very weak as well. So several element yagi with good preamp.
Mark N8MH
On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 5:14 PM tjschuessler--- via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
So last week, Fox 1E was opened up to, well, challenging use. Downlink power is quite low so the encouragement is to use highly efficient modes like FT4 or CW as SSB may prove difficult.
Since that announcement, I have not heard much from BB members, on whether they have been able to make contacts, and if so, how much/little power was needed to get through. The article on “Characterization” of the bird, and the subsequent info on it’s being opened for what use can be made of it, did not address this topic. If one were to try it, I am sure they may feel it would take a quite substantial uplink power to be heard back. B ut maybe not so much power anyway.
I, and I am sure others, are interested in hearing from folks who have attempted and failed, or succeeded in at least hearing themselves, or even making a QSO, as to how much uplink power it did take.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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No luck on two cw skeds. Couldn’t hear my downlink and other stations couldn’t hear theirs. How much power was reacing the bird is hard to say in my case because the antennas are in the attic. RayKN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Sunday, August 1, 2021, 5:13 PM, tjschuessler--- via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
<!--#yiv1646859834 _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv1646859834 #yiv1646859834 p.yiv1646859834MsoNormal, #yiv1646859834 li.yiv1646859834MsoNormal, #yiv1646859834 div.yiv1646859834MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv1646859834 span.yiv1646859834EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv1646859834 .yiv1646859834MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv1646859834 div.yiv1646859834WordSection1 {}--> So last week, Fox 1E was opened up to, well, challenging use. Downlink power is quite low so the encouragement is to use highly efficient modes like FT4 or CW as SSB may prove difficult.
Since that announcement, I have not heard much from BB members, on whether they have been able to make contacts, and if so, how much/little power was needed to get through. The article on “Characterization” of the bird, and the subsequent info on it’s being opened for what use can be made of it, did not address this topic. If one were to try it, I am sure they may feel it would take a quite substantial uplink power to be heard back. B ut maybe not so much power anyway.
I, and I am sure others, are interested in hearing from folks who have attempted and failed, or succeeded in at least hearing themselves, or even making a QSO, as to how much uplink power it did take.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Thanks, Ray and Mark. That answers the curious question, confirming the “Challenging” aspect of the bird. Probably not going to be one I try much just because of the limited station I can run.
If the antennas did not, and/or won’t deploy, that would severely compromise the radiation pattern. You would have an easier time if the face with the antennas still in the stowed position was directly facing both stations. Broadside or blocked by the cube would be blocked by the structure/boards would limit RF in and out. Kind of like body blocking technique used in close in transmitter hunting. Take the antenna off the radio and use your body to block the signals. If your radio was not exactly facing the “Fox”, but blocked by your tissue, the signal would be lower.
From: crohtun via AMSAT-BB [email protected] Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 4:47 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
No luck on two cw skeds. Couldn’t hear my downlink and other stations couldn’t hear theirs. How much power was reacing the bird is hard to say in my case because the antennas are in the attic.
Ray
KN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661
On Sunday, August 1, 2021, 5:13 PM, tjschuessler--- via AMSAT-BB <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote:
So last week, Fox 1E was opened up to, well, challenging use. Downlink power is quite low so the encouragement is to use highly efficient modes like FT4 or CW as SSB may prove difficult.
Since that announcement, I have not heard much from BB members, on whether they have been able to make contacts, and if so, how much/little power was needed to get through. The article on “Characterization” of the bird, and the subsequent info on it’s being opened for what use can be made of it, did not address this topic. If one were to try it, I am sure they may feel it would take a quite substantial uplink power to be heard back. B ut maybe not so much power anyway.
I, and I am sure others, are interested in hearing from folks who have attempted and failed, or succeeded in at least hearing themselves, or even making a QSO, as to how much uplink power it did take.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Any news in this ao-109? Why does it have an OSCAR number if it never worked? Yet? Is the dashboard data valid? The solar V all seem correct.? I am not trying to be negative but the facts speak for themselves. Not that I am saying that I personally have the right to know these facts. But the members do pay to run this show. Maybe I am confused as usual.
KFoG
There was a post about it from Robert Bankston to amsat members August 6th.
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 6:29 PM [email protected] wrote:
Any news in this ao-109? Why does it have an OSCAR number if it never worked? Yet? Is the dashboard data valid? The solar V all seem correct.? I am not trying to be negative but the facts speak for themselves. Not that I am saying that I personally have the right to know these facts. But the members do pay to run this show. Maybe I am confused as usual.
KFoG
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I did with 70 watts uplink on FT-4 and I can decode my echo last week. The signal was very weak.
Yesterday I saw VU3XFO on AO-109, tried to reply but it might be already too low for him.
73 de Yono - YD0NXX
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 17, 2021, at 7:29 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Any news in this ao-109? Why does it have an OSCAR number if it never worked? Yet? Is the dashboard data valid? The solar V all seem correct.? I am not trying to be negative but the facts speak for themselves. Not that I am saying that I personally have the right to know these facts. But the members do pay to run this show. Maybe I am confused as usual.
KFoG
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Robert,
To answer your first question, AO-109 has an OSCAR number because it DOES work, albeit at low power. People have made QSOs via FT4 and CW. The telemetry is perfectly valid, although only a few stations with big antennas and good passes have been able to receive signals that can be decoded. You can look on the dashboard as you have done, or download the whole body of telemetry via the free FoxTelem software. Looking at the telemetry, you can easily see the main problem with 109--the power output, which is being measured as somewhere around 7-8mW.
For details, see the article that N8MH and I wrote in the latest AMSAT journal (May-June 2021) and an update (linked from the front page of the AMSAT web site): https://www.amsat.org/debugging-ao-109-an-update/. We are trying to be transparent with these articles. As you can see from the length of these articles, it's hard to be thorough in a quick post on the BB or Twitter.
73,
Burns WB1FJ AMSAT Flight Software Volunteer
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 8:29 PM [email protected] wrote:
Any news in this ao-109? Why does it have an OSCAR number if it never worked? Yet? Is the dashboard data valid? The solar V all seem correct.? I am not trying to be negative but the facts speak for themselves. Not that I am saying that I personally have the right to know these facts. But the members do pay to run this show. Maybe I am confused as usual.
KFoG
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NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am concerned. let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you want to hear it or not. that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the funds, playing games. nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
I concur, which is why I am not renewing my AMSAT membership. It was mentioned on this list a while ago that they are months behind in putting together an updated chart of satellites and frequencies. We used to be able to count on getting one of those on an annual basis. Much unusable hardware circling the Earth. No specific publicly known plans for upcoming launches. I will donate to ARISS, but I'm probably finished with AMSAT.
Steve AI9IN ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Date: 08/17/21 11:08 To: [email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am concerned. let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you want to hear it or not. that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the funds, playing games. nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Guys,
This is a very hard stand which I fully understand as at sometimes had the same kind of reaction. However after second thought:
1) We are all volunteers in that game including many leaders devoting time and effort to promote the hobby and space, 2) About 20% of CubeSat sent to space fail due to transmission/radio issues; 3) AMSAT-NL got a series of bad luck with the batteries and Rx on AO-109; 4) Yes, the management may have some shortcomings, but again they are volunteers and trying to do their best, may be others could do better but the reality is just that they are elected members by a majority (I may have not vote for them but respect the majority rule). 5) I believe all AMSAT organisation globally need our financial support to put the birds up there, I am a member of both AMSAT-NL and AMSAT-DL and given a few cents as donation as sincerely believe that many drops can create a river. 6) All may criticize (I did so in the past) but providing ideas and suggestions for improvement would be much more positive but understand that it is not really easy.
Our organisations worldwide need our support to put birds in space (as there is no cheap solution) and if all stop supporting theses organisations very soon we will have no satellites at all.
I therefore suggest that one an all continue to support AMSAT worldwide with their membership and donations, in case not happy with a particular AMSAT organisation there are others around the world to support so that we keep our presence in space.
Just a wishful thinking.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Aug 17, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Steve Kristoff [email protected] wrote:
I concur, which is why I am not renewing my AMSAT membership. It was mentioned on this list a while ago that they are months behind in putting together an updated chart of satellites and frequencies. We used to be able to count on getting one of those on an annual basis. Much unusable hardware circling the Earth. No specific publicly known plans for upcoming launches. I will donate to ARISS, but I'm probably finished with AMSAT.
Steve AI9IN
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Date: 08/17/21 11:08 To: [email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am concerned. let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you want to hear it or not. that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the funds, playing games. nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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"what he said"!
Thank you Jean Marc.
Chuck N7BFO
On 8/17/2021 9:00 AM, Jean Marc Momple wrote:
Guys,
This is a very hard stand which I fully understand as at sometimes had the same kind of reaction. However after second thought:
- We are all volunteers in that game including many leaders devoting time and effort to promote the hobby and space,
- About 20% of CubeSat sent to space fail due to transmission/radio issues;
- AMSAT-NL got a series of bad luck with the batteries and Rx on AO-109;
- Yes, the management may have some shortcomings, but again they are volunteers and trying to do their best, may be others could do better but the reality is just that they are elected members by a majority (I may have not vote for them but respect the majority rule).
- I believe all AMSAT organisation globally need our financial support to put the birds up there, I am a member of both AMSAT-NL and AMSAT-DL and given a few cents as donation as sincerely believe that many drops can create a river.
- All may criticize (I did so in the past) but providing ideas and suggestions for improvement would be much more positive but understand that it is not really easy.
Our organisations worldwide need our support to put birds in space (as there is no cheap solution) and if all stop supporting theses organisations very soon we will have no satellites at all.
I therefore suggest that one an all continue to support AMSAT worldwide with their membership and donations, in case not happy with a particular AMSAT organisation there are others around the world to support so that we keep our presence in space.
Just a wishful thinking.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Aug 17, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Steve Kristoff [email protected] wrote:
I concur, which is why I am not renewing my AMSAT membership. It was mentioned on this list a while ago that they are months behind in putting together an updated chart of satellites and frequencies. We used to be able to count on getting one of those on an annual basis. Much unusable hardware circling the Earth. No specific publicly known plans for upcoming launches. I will donate to ARISS, but I'm probably finished with AMSAT.
Steve AI9IN
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Date: 08/17/21 11:08 To: [email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am concerned. let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you want to hear it or not. that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the funds, playing games. nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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It was mentioned on this list a while ago that "they" are months behind in putting together an updated chart of satellites and frequencies. Steve AI9IN
Who is this "they". In a volunteer organization, the "they" is "us".
Maybe you could volunteer to do that? Just research the published info and various status pages and assemble the info and put it out.
I put togetther a simple page so summarize all the APRS satelitees which includes all the links to their info and live telemetry: http://aprs.org/sats.html
Yes, it is just one list of many. But it is still part of the needed info. Bob, Wb4APR
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Date: 08/17/21 11:08 To: [email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am
concerned.
let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you
want to hear it or not.
that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the
funds, playing games.
nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
Bob – You are right, of course.
Steve – The updated chart of satellites was posted to the website. Is this what you wanted? https://launch.amsat.org/resources/Documents/Frequency%20Guide/AMSAT%20Frequ...
73, Steve N9IP -- Steve Belter, [email protected]mailto:[email protected]
From: Bob Bruninga [email protected] Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 3:04 PM To: Steve Kristoff [email protected] Cc: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
It was mentioned on this list a while ago that "they" are months behind in putting together an updated chart of satellites and frequencies. Steve AI9IN
Who is this "they". In a volunteer organization, the "they" is "us".
Maybe you could volunteer to do that? Just research the published info and various status pages and assemble the info and put it out. I put togetther a simple page so summarize all the APRS satelitees which includes all the links to their info and live telemetry: https://link.edgepilot.com/s/2da33c37/3EUaftqCOkylw9lvnfjctQ?u=http://aprs.o...
Yes, it is just one list of many. But it is still part of the needed info. Bob, Wb4APR
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected]mailto:[email protected] Date: 08/17/21 11:08 To: [email protected]mailto:[email protected] Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am concerned. let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you want to hear it or not. that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the funds, playing games. nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
The latest frequency chart (August 2021) was published on the AMSAT site a week or so ago.
satfreqguide0510 (amsat.org)
From: Robert Bruninga Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:03 PM To: Steve Kristoff Cc: amsat bb Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: AO-109, how much uplink power needed.
It was mentioned on this list a while ago that "they" are months behind in putting together an updated chart of satellites and frequencies. Steve AI9IN
On 08/17/21 10:08, [email protected] wrote:
calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base.
Hello Robert,
It works better than empty space, which would not translate your signals from one band to another and send them back to you.
Think of it as an exercise in weak-signal work; you might need this experience in the future for a higher-orbit satellite.
As always, AMSAT welcomes volunteers! If you'd like to be part of the hard-working corps designing, building, documenting, and launching satellites, please visit:
https://www.amsat.org/volunteer-for-amsat/
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Here's a news flash: When you paid your dues to AMSAT there was no contract. You neither purchased a product nor subscribed to a service. YOU JOINED A CLUB. No one cheated you out of anything, because nobody promised you anything, other than that you could be part of the club. You can take your ball and go home if you like. Or you can participate in the club and try to make it better, as many of the rest of us are doing. Nobody is getting paid to serve you. We're all in the club to have a good time.
Just today, I transmitted a signal to AO-109 and saw it come back for the first time. Those who have been helping me with the project will attest that I'm no technical genius. I'm using 75 watts and a LEOpack -- not an exotic station. I'm close to having a contact on that bird, but it's going to take more than the day-and-a-half I've been working on it. And I'll have to learn something along the way. But that's why it's a hobby. I'm having fun with the challenge.
There are no American business people lying to you here, because we aren't doing business with you. It's not a business, just an organization. You didn't buy anything from AMSAT, you joined it. -- Mark D. Johns, KØJM AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd ----------------------------------------------- "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ---Mark Twain
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:08 AM [email protected] wrote:
NO that would be not true. calling 8mW from something that should be putting out 440mW is not WORKING it is barely limping along and unusable for the user base. calling it "working" is spin and borders on a lie as far as i am concerned. let's not play games and say untrue statements please. how many bad satellites now? ok? it does not look very good whether you want to hear it or not. that is the truth amsat. i am tired of being lied to by american business people. i pay for a membership. that does not give anybody the right to abuse the funds, playing games. nobody seems to know why nothing is working lately.
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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I was going to let this go because a number of people have commented, but I do want to say one thing as a volunteer who helps build satellites.
I tried to answer a question as truthfully and candidly as possible. I was essentially called a liar. When people get called liars trying to answer questions, they are less likely to try to answer questions in the future. I urge everyone on this list (and every other list, FB group and other social media platform for that matter) to read what you wrote before you hit send and think about whether you would say that in person.
I will also add that those of us who worked for years on Fox-1E are also terribly disappointed in its performance. Believe me, we understand and don't expect anyone to be happy about it! However, I AM pleased that in the last few months it seems to have changed from a DEAD satellite to one that at least some people can use and from which we can get some telemetry to make future satellites better. The paper that I referred to earlier, especially the followup on the AMSAT website, DOES tell our best guesses as to the problem, and believe me, we are trying to find ways for future satellites to avoid every problem that we have hypothesized.
Burns WB1FJ
Burns,
I fully understand your disappointment as having made a few projects which failed in spite of hard work but fully compensated by many others which were successful. You did not really failed as you just did the best that you could as a volunteer and that the learnings we have acquired from that mission will help for the future ones.
Let’s all look at the future together and stop the blaming game which is unproductive.
My one cent final input on that subject, and all the best for future AMSAT missions.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Aug 17, 2021, at 9:41 PM, Burns Fisher [email protected] wrote:
I was going to let this go because a number of people have commented, but I do want to say one thing as a volunteer who helps build satellites.
I tried to answer a question as truthfully and candidly as possible. I was essentially called a liar. When people get called liars trying to answer questions, they are less likely to try to answer questions in the future. I urge everyone on this list (and every other list, FB group and other social media platform for that matter) to read what you wrote before you hit send and think about whether you would say that in person.
I will also add that those of us who worked for years on Fox-1E are also terribly disappointed in its performance. Believe me, we understand and don't expect anyone to be happy about it! However, I AM pleased that in the last few months it seems to have changed from a DEAD satellite to one that at least some people can use and from which we can get some telemetry to make future satellites better. The paper that I referred to earlier, especially the followup on the AMSAT website, DOES tell our best guesses as to the problem, and believe me, we are trying to find ways for future satellites to avoid every problem that we have hypothesized.
Burns WB1FJ
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Just to be clear, you can get an OSCAR number without a working transponder too.
Needs downlink only. See AO-95 as an example.
https://www.amsat.org/oscar-numbers-policy/
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 09:00 Burns Fisher [email protected] wrote:
Robert,
To answer your first question, AO-109 has an OSCAR number because it DOES work, albeit at low power. People have made QSOs via FT4 and CW. The telemetry is perfectly valid, although only a few stations with big antennas and good passes have been able to receive signals that can be decoded. You can look on the dashboard as you have done, or download the whole body of telemetry via the free FoxTelem software. Looking at the telemetry, you can easily see the main problem with 109--the power output, which is being measured as somewhere around 7-8mW.
For details, see the article that N8MH and I wrote in the latest AMSAT journal (May-June 2021) and an update (linked from the front page of the AMSAT web site): https://www.amsat.org/debugging-ao-109-an-update/. We are trying to be transparent with these articles. As you can see from the length of these articles, it's hard to be thorough in a quick post on the BB or Twitter.
73,
Burns WB1FJ AMSAT Flight Software Volunteer
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 8:29 PM [email protected] wrote:
Any news in this ao-109? Why does it have an OSCAR number if it never worked? Yet? Is the dashboard data valid? The solar V all seem correct.? I am not trying to be negative but the facts speak for themselves. Not that I am saying that I personally have the right to know these facts. But the members do pay to run this show. Maybe I am confused as usual.
KFoG
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Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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cool. ao-109 is the new EME /GEO testing and training satellite, right ?
i will just pray to the gods of the spectrum that it is flying down the middle of the atlantic one day, and gets hit by a yuge CME, and the problem gets fused together, and the darn thing starts working.
it could happen.
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Burns Fisher -
CEE -
Charles Reiche -
crohtun -
Glenn Miller -
Jean Marc Momple -
John Brier -
Mark Johns, K0JM -
Mark L. Hammond -
Robert Bruninga -
robertinorbit＠webtv.net -
Stephen E. Belter -
Steve Kristoff -
tjschuessler＠verizon.net -
Yono Adisoemarta -
Zach Metzinger