Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bruninga" bruninga@usna.edu To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations
There seems to be a proliferation of satellites using the Amateur bands as cheap down links, and using Radio Amateurs as a cheap way of collecting their data. It is MY personal belief that a satellite should only use our hard-earned and much coveted frequencies if they REALLY do carry an Amateur Radio payload... I.E. a Transponder!
While I too like to see transponders, I do not like to see all the negativizim, hate and rabble-rousing against those who actually get something into space. The self-richeous nay-saying comments are about as practical as these:
"Those HF contesters should not be using the Amateur Bands, they should be passing useful communications or traffic!"
"Those Traffic passers are not real amateur operators, because they will not respond with QSL's!"
"Those old fud rag chewers on HF think they own the frequency. They should let others use the frequency for more useful communications"
"Those FM commuters are just wasting air time, saying the same old thing every day. Why don't they just use a cell phone!"
"Those AM guys are just wasting 6 KHz of spectrum, they should be made illegal on the amateur bands"
"Who wants to look at all those SSTV pictures, Its just the same old post-card! They should not be using 3 KHz of bandwidth for such stupid applications"...
"Those Winlink guys are killing amateur radio by turning the bands into an automatic communications system."
"Those Echolink and IRLP links are bad for ham radio. Why don't they just use HF or a phone if they want to talk to someone far away."
"Those Radio control Airplanes operating on the Amateur band should never be there, they are not communications".
"Those experimental Balloons just transmit pictures and telemetry, without a transponder, they have no purpose in Amateur Radio"
And on and on...
Face, it.. Ham radio is as rich in applications as there are innovative and resourceful people. If you want something done, then go do it. If you don't like what others are doing with their hobby, then get out of the way.
Public negativizim and constant complaining never accomplishes anything except darken our collective hobby. Save that for the politicians who are supposed to respond to their constituents. For a hobby that is just the collective "us" with each licensed individual having the same equal opportunities as everyone else, complaining about what others do is just pointless.
Bob, WB4APR
Hi Bob, WB4APR
You cannot get out of the way those Amateur Radio users actually requesting OSCAR's Satellites with on board transponders because the Amateur Satellite Service started when in 1972 OSCAR-6 was launched and thousand's of the above maltreated and by you offended HF users decided to abandone the Amateur Service to enter into a more bright and promising Amateur Satellite Service. The above thousand's HF users invested worldwide a lot of money and a lot of efforts to convert their HF stations into VHF/UHF/SHF Satellite Stations with the purpose to get a more communication efficiency against the problems due of propagation using short waves. Without the above prerequisite the Amateur Satellite Service never would had spring up.
Read please this "Brief History" written into page-1 of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR-13 Operations and Technical Handbook 1989
"Amateur radio satellites have gone through three phases; phase 1: experimentation to find the possible; phase 2: long life, low orbit satellites to gain experience; and phase 3: high altitude orbits with complex transponding and control systems.
Phase 1 started when OSCAR-1 was launched on 12 December 1961 and phase 2 was led by OSCAR-6 in October 1972. Amsat's first attemp for phase 3 (the satellite known only as phase 3A ) failed when the experimental Ariane rocked plunged into the South Atlantic in May 1980 . Amsat second attemp for phase 3 partially succeeded in June 1993 when OSCAR-10 was released into space . The world's radio amateurs after more than 10 years of low orbit satellites and associated short visibility periods, at last tasted Amsat's policy of equivalence to a permantly open 14 MHz band with practically world wide communications.
OSCAR stands for Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio and a satellite is a package equipped with solar cells, batteries, receivers, and transmitters, aerials and control electronics. The batteries are charged by the solar cells whenever the satellite is in sunlight. Signal received in part of one amateur band are retransmitted in part of another amateur band. Unlike terrestrial, single frequency, analog repeaters ,the satellite relay system (called a transponder ) will translate linearly any type of narrow-band signal such as CW, SSB, RTTY, NBFM, or AM although only the first four are recommended, being power-efficient and RF low duty cycle -------------------- Bob, This is why the above thousands Satellite Experimenter's and User's mostly coming from the HF are actually waiting for P3-E and her transponders. Read again please:
".................when OSCAR-10 was released into space . The world's radio amateurs after more than 10 years of low orbit satellites and associated short visibility periods, at last tasted Amsat's policy of equivalence to a permanently open 14 MHz band with practically world wide communications."
I hope that the original unchanged AMSAT's policy will be now clear for you.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico Past President AMSAT-Italia
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
i8cvs wrote:
| You cannot get out of the way those Amateur Radio users actually requesting | OSCAR's Satellites with on board transponders because the Amateur Satellite | Service started when in 1972 OSCAR-6 was launched and thousand's of the | above maltreated and by you offended HF users decided to abandone the | Amateur Service to enter into a more bright and promising Amateur Satellite | Service.
*snip*
| Read please this "Brief History" written into page-1 of the AMSAT-UK | OSCAR-13 Operations and Technical Handbook 1989
*snip*
| OSCAR stands for Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio and a satellite is | a package equipped with solar cells, batteries, receivers, and transmitters, | aerials and control electronics.
This seems to fit the definition of RS-30 perfectly. Just because it isn't configured for transponder use (as far as we know; did I miss a definitive answer on this?) doesn't make it any less of an "Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio".
RS-30 seems to fit the checklist perfectly:
* Satellite - Check! * Orbiting - Check! * Carrying Amateur Radio - Check!
*grin*
| I hope that the original unchanged AMSAT's policy will be now clear for | you.
I don't understand how RS-30 doesn't meet AMSAT's policy and Bob's statement is correct, complaining about another satellite in orbit isn't constructive in any way shape or form.
Robert Bruninga wrote:
| Face, it.. Ham radio is as rich in applications as there are | innovative and resourceful people. If you want something done, | then go do it. If you don't like what others are doing with | their hobby, then get out of the way.
This is 100% on the money. The nay-sayers can complain all they want but the issue at hand is that if they want something done, they need to roll up their sleeves and do it. Otherwise they should not complain.
Amateur Radio is about experimentation. If another person's experiments don't suit you, don't get involved with them. Don't start insulting them.
- -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj <at> innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
Folks: Is it too much to ask for just a little bit of accountability for projects that exist as a result of public donations? If any organization can't do that then they shouldn't solicit donations. It is really a very simple concept. One shouldn't get their head snapped off just for asking the question about the status of a given satellite project! BTW: What is the latest status on PE3?
For Christ Sake LIGHTEN UP! Either it is a viable project or it isn't. If benchmarks and milestones were applied to the project and they were made TRULY public undoubtly donations would go through the roof! .
Most folks on this board got a taste of the early RS Satellites, AO-10 and AO-40 and got a great deal of satisfaction from working those. I"m confident that if the people on this board were to vote, most would vote for HEOs. with linear transponders and not in airborne FM Repeaters. NEWS FLASH it ain't rocket science!
Please get off of your self righteous high horses. most of us don't have the luxury of working in the satellite field on a daily basis.
Finally I will support any project that is dedicated to getting the first HEO with linear transponders deployed as long as the leadership is result oriented and devoted to accontability. Is that really too much to ask from ANY orgnization? Even my local Amateur Radio Club can manage that!
One final note, we can work repeaters any time on 146.340 / 94 if we wanted to.
10-4 good buddy!
dos centavos .73's DE, Joe, K7ZT ----- Original Message ----- From: "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it To: "Bob Bruninga" bruninga@usna.edu; "AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:25 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bruninga" bruninga@usna.edu To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations
There seems to be a proliferation of satellites using the Amateur bands as cheap down links, and using Radio Amateurs as a cheap way of collecting their data. It is MY personal belief that a satellite should only use our hard-earned and much coveted frequencies if they REALLY do carry an Amateur Radio payload... I.E. a Transponder!
While I too like to see transponders, I do not like to see all the negativizim, hate and rabble-rousing against those who actually get something into space. The self-richeous nay-saying comments are about as practical as these:
"Those HF contesters should not be using the Amateur Bands, they should be passing useful communications or traffic!"
"Those Traffic passers are not real amateur operators, because they will not respond with QSL's!"
"Those old fud rag chewers on HF think they own the frequency. They should let others use the frequency for more useful communications"
"Those FM commuters are just wasting air time, saying the same old thing every day. Why don't they just use a cell phone!"
"Those AM guys are just wasting 6 KHz of spectrum, they should be made illegal on the amateur bands"
"Who wants to look at all those SSTV pictures, Its just the same old post-card! They should not be using 3 KHz of bandwidth for such stupid applications"...
"Those Winlink guys are killing amateur radio by turning the bands into an automatic communications system."
"Those Echolink and IRLP links are bad for ham radio. Why don't they just use HF or a phone if they want to talk to someone far away."
"Those Radio control Airplanes operating on the Amateur band should never be there, they are not communications".
"Those experimental Balloons just transmit pictures and telemetry, without a transponder, they have no purpose in Amateur Radio"
And on and on...
Face, it.. Ham radio is as rich in applications as there are innovative and resourceful people. If you want something done, then go do it. If you don't like what others are doing with their hobby, then get out of the way.
Public negativizim and constant complaining never accomplishes anything except darken our collective hobby. Save that for the politicians who are supposed to respond to their constituents. For a hobby that is just the collective "us" with each licensed individual having the same equal opportunities as everyone else, complaining about what others do is just pointless.
Bob, WB4APR
Hi Bob, WB4APR
You cannot get out of the way those Amateur Radio users actually requesting OSCAR's Satellites with on board transponders because the Amateur Satellite Service started when in 1972 OSCAR-6 was launched and thousand's of the above maltreated and by you offended HF users decided to abandone the Amateur Service to enter into a more bright and promising Amateur Satellite Service. The above thousand's HF users invested worldwide a lot of money and a lot of efforts to convert their HF stations into VHF/UHF/SHF Satellite Stations with the purpose to get a more communication efficiency against the problems due of propagation using short waves. Without the above prerequisite the Amateur Satellite Service never would had spring up.
Read please this "Brief History" written into page-1 of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR-13 Operations and Technical Handbook 1989
"Amateur radio satellites have gone through three phases; phase 1: experimentation to find the possible; phase 2: long life, low orbit satellites to gain experience; and phase 3: high altitude orbits with complex transponding and control systems.
Phase 1 started when OSCAR-1 was launched on 12 December 1961 and phase 2 was led by OSCAR-6 in October 1972. Amsat's first attemp for phase 3 (the satellite known only as phase 3A ) failed when the experimental Ariane rocked plunged into the South Atlantic in May 1980 . Amsat second attemp for phase 3 partially succeeded in June 1993 when OSCAR-10 was released into space . The world's radio amateurs after more than 10 years of low orbit satellites and associated short visibility periods, at last tasted Amsat's policy of equivalence to a permantly open 14 MHz band with practically world wide communications.
OSCAR stands for Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio and a satellite is a package equipped with solar cells, batteries, receivers, and transmitters, aerials and control electronics. The batteries are charged by the solar cells whenever the satellite is in sunlight. Signal received in part of one amateur band are retransmitted in part of another amateur band. Unlike terrestrial, single frequency, analog repeaters ,the satellite relay system (called a transponder ) will translate linearly any type of narrow-band signal such as CW, SSB, RTTY, NBFM, or AM although only the first four are recommended, being power-efficient and RF low duty cycle -------------------- Bob, This is why the above thousands Satellite Experimenter's and User's mostly coming from the HF are actually waiting for P3-E and her transponders. Read again please:
".................when OSCAR-10 was released into space . The world's radio amateurs after more than 10 years of low orbit satellites and associated short visibility periods, at last tasted Amsat's policy of equivalence to a permanently open 14 MHz band with practically world wide communications."
I hope that the original unchanged AMSAT's policy will be now clear for you.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico Past President AMSAT-Italia
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On May 30, 2008, at 11:18 PM, Joe Westbrook wrote:
One final note, we can work repeaters any time on 146.340 / 94 if we wanted to.
Actually Joe, you only do that at the pleasure of the guy who built the repeater, too. Even terrestrial repeaters are taken for granted. Badly.
A modern terrestrial repeater engineered and built correctly is about a minimum of a $3000 investment by someone or some organization, and that doesn't include the many hours of time to get it right.
Maybe using terrestrial repeaters to make your point, wasn't such a good idea... those of us that build them know what it's like to be mistreated and taken for granted, just like the AMSAT folks?
Anyway... speaking of terrestrial stuff that's taken for granted... NASA Audio is available for the duration of the mission for your "listening pleasure" from IRLP Reflector 9877.
We just dealt with an uplink problem and it's sounding good right now... the uplink node automatically unkeys every 3 minutes to keep your IRLP node from timing out, and the Reflector is set up "listen only" so you can connect with any IRLP node in any configuration and it'll work... in other words, a number of "behind-the-scenes" folks did it right... again like AMSAT?
:-)
Enjoy!
-- Nate Duehr, WY0X nate@natetech.com
Hi Joe,
... support any project that is dedicated to getting the first HEO with linear transponders deployed as long as the leadership is result oriented and devoted to accontability.
Here is an opportunity to become a part of the problem ... http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/volunteers/
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
JoAnne: You know, yours is the typical response that all to often occurs on the board. I don't think that I could effectively work as a volunteer for AMSAT-DL.
I'm most interested in the next HEO scheduled to launch but has the least current information available.. That would be PE3. AMSAT-NA has done a pretty good job of keeping us informed on the Eagle project.
AMSAT-NA and UK have donated large sums of money to that effort but therecontinues to be an information vacuum comming out of Germany. I happen to think that the PE3 leadership should keep folks informed of progress on these projects. Additionally, when folks simply ask the question they shouldn't be attacked.
Regards, - Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: "JoAnne Maenpaa" k9jkm@comcast.net To: "'AMSAT-BB'" amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
Hi Joe,
... support any project that is dedicated to getting the first HEO with linear transponders deployed as long as the leadership is result oriented and devoted to accontability.
Here is an opportunity to become a part of the problem ... http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/volunteers/
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
JoAnne Maenpaa schreef:
Hi Joe,
... support any project that is dedicated to getting the first HEO with linear transponders deployed as long as the leadership is result oriented and devoted to accontability.
Here is an opportunity to become a part of the problem ... http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/volunteers/
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm@amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I volunteered 3 times on the website, never got an answer... Brougth that to the attention of BOD members, never got an answer... Gave up, now spending my energy and $$ elsewhere... -- //\arc LM2304
participants (6)
-
Ben Jackson -
i8cvs -
JoAnne Maenpaa -
Joe Westbrook -
mvm -
Nate Duehr