Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers.
We all realize that the builders and creators are working hard and puting in many volunteer hours, but for the greater satellite community to keep interested and supporting they need to hear what is happening (fairly frequently). That does take some time and effort away from direct project work but is very neccessary for a volunteer run organization.
When looking for news on P3E I can find little on-line that is recent (most dates two years old), or is only in german language (which I do not read/speak). Even if things are at a full standstill the supporting membership is owed an occassional update. That may generate a few "grousing remarks" from a few but that goes with the task.
Amsat Journal does attempt this to a degree, but I think the summary remarks should be given either on Amsat-bb or ANS which is available to all. Regular news tells the general satellite community that the leadership cares about their support.
It would be good if P3E were to share on Amsat-bb or at least post more regular reports to Amsat-DL website. As an Amsat-NA field op I get questions that I am not able to answer...that should not happen very often. Certainly the basic stuff like how are the new satellite projects coming and when can we expect them to be launched.
Since AO-10/13 there has been a long wait for the next full HEO sat. AO-40 did not last long enough and it has been a few years since then! A lot of folks are trying to be patient and need some words to help them keep the faith.
***************************************************** 73, Ed - KL7UW BP40iq, 6m - 3cm 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xp20, 185w http://www.kl7uw.com AK VHF-Up Group NA Rep. for DUBUS: [email protected] *****************************************************
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Edward Cole [email protected] wrote:
Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers.
Isn't the story very simple regarding the critical step of launching P3E: they're looking for an affordable ride, and there are none on the horizon?
I assume it is very hard to enter into negotiations looking for a cut-rate on a launch while publicly naming the party you are negotiating with. If I were that party, the first thing I'd insist is that there be no mention until a deal is reached, because my organization could end up looking like bad guys for even entertaining the idea.
On the technical side of P3E, I think we've been reasonably well-informed, but then I don't think AMSAT-DL is obliged to report in English any more than AMSAT-NA is obliged to publish its reports in Japanese and German because significant donors came from those countries. We can always get by with online translators if we don't know German. It works pretty well; I can show you how.
73, Bruce VE9QRP
Bruce: looks like you have the same question that I have.
I know how to use the on-line translators, but you still won't find the answers that donners need to know. I'm not suggesting that they disclose sensitive information, simply a statement like we have identified possible launch opportunities, they cost $xxxxxxx.00, this is the target launch date we have a remaining delta of $xxxxxxxx.00.
I fail to see how that would put a launch opportunity in jeopardy.
- Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Robertson" [email protected] To: "Edward Cole" [email protected] Cc: "AMSAT" [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Edward Cole [email protected] wrote:
Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers.
Isn't the story very simple regarding the critical step of launching P3E: they're looking for an affordable ride, and there are none on the horizon?
I assume it is very hard to enter into negotiations looking for a cut-rate on a launch while publicly naming the party you are negotiating with. If I were that party, the first thing I'd insist is that there be no mention until a deal is reached, because my organization could end up looking like bad guys for even entertaining the idea.
On the technical side of P3E, I think we've been reasonably well-informed, but then I don't think AMSAT-DL is obliged to report in English any more than AMSAT-NA is obliged to publish its reports in Japanese and German because significant donors came from those countries. We can always get by with online translators if we don't know German. It works pretty well; I can show you how.
73, Bruce VE9QRP _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Also regarding AMSAT-NA Board nominations!!
Joe - I think your question about P3E status and the AMSAT-NA donation to P3E is fair. Even a return response saying "I don't have the answer" is much better than no answer at all.
Wayne - you respond to Joe with "AMSAT is a volunteer organization. Are you volunteering to fix this accountability problem?"
Volunteer organization or professional organization - there needs to be accountability. You apparently feel there is an accountability problem. I would agree!!
The operating budget for AMSAT-NA for 2008 is approximately $398.000. That's money from you, me, the rest of the membership, grants, interest and dividends, the President's Club, etc. That's not pocket change and here we are half way through 2008 and I'd venture to say that only a handful of the membership have any clue where we stand. It has not been addressed in the AMSAT Journal or on this reflector by a Board member.
Perhaps the short answer is - not many care, but I really can't believe that.
Comments have recently been made about Eagle. A look at the 2008 Budget and you'll see "zero" dollars identified for Eagle satellite hardware development. Yet the published "Mission Vision" for AMSAT is "to deploy high earth orbit satellite systems that offer daily coverage by 2009 and continuous coverage by 2012." (see page 2 of the March/April 2008 AMSAT Journal)
Now - do you think that "Vision" is realistic or should there be some accounting for why that is still being touted as a reason to financially support the organization.
The AMSAT Board nominees should be prepared to address this over riding issue of what I'll call "Mission Accountability."
Well, I go put on my flame retardant flack jacket...Bill - N6GHz
Joe Westbrook wrote:
Bruce: looks like you have the same question that I have.
I know how to use the on-line translators, but you still won't find the answers that donners need to know. I'm not suggesting that they disclose sensitive information, simply a statement like we have identified possible launch opportunities, they cost $xxxxxxx.00, this is the target launch date we have a remaining delta of $xxxxxxxx.00.
I fail to see how that would put a launch opportunity in jeopardy.
- Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Robertson" [email protected] To: "Edward Cole" [email protected] Cc: "AMSAT" [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Edward Cole [email protected] wrote:
Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers.
Isn't the story very simple regarding the critical step of launching P3E: they're looking for an affordable ride, and there are none on the horizon?
I assume it is very hard to enter into negotiations looking for a cut-rate on a launch while publicly naming the party you are negotiating with. If I were that party, the first thing I'd insist is that there be no mention until a deal is reached, because my organization could end up looking like bad guys for even entertaining the idea.
On the technical side of P3E, I think we've been reasonably well-informed, but then I don't think AMSAT-DL is obliged to report in English any more than AMSAT-NA is obliged to publish its reports in Japanese and German because significant donors came from those countries. We can always get by with online translators if we don't know German. It works pretty well; I can show you how.
73, Bruce VE9QRP _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bill: Thanks for your response and I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended by comments.
What I was attempting to convey was in regard to attacks on folks for merely asking what the latest status is on PE3. Last week a gentleman who was a former AMSAT official was just looking for a status update on PE3. The usual folks went into defensive mode, attacking him so I thought I would pose the same query. It turned out to be a self fulfilling profecy.
I should know better, but I have a hard time sitting silent.
Regards, - Joe, K7ZT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Ress" [email protected] To: "Joe Westbrook" [email protected] Cc: "Bruce Robertson" [email protected]; "Edward Cole" [email protected]; "AMSAT" [email protected] Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: JUBILEE and other frustrations and AMSAT Board Nominations Coming Due,
Also regarding AMSAT-NA Board nominations!!
Joe - I think your question about P3E status and the AMSAT-NA donation to P3E is fair. Even a return response saying "I don't have the answer" is much better than no answer at all.
Wayne - you respond to Joe with "AMSAT is a volunteer organization. Are you volunteering to fix this accountability problem?"
Volunteer organization or professional organization - there needs to be accountability. You apparently feel there is an accountability problem. I would agree!!
The operating budget for AMSAT-NA for 2008 is approximately $398.000. That's money from you, me, the rest of the membership, grants, interest and dividends, the President's Club, etc. That's not pocket change and here we are half way through 2008 and I'd venture to say that only a handful of the membership have any clue where we stand. It has not been addressed in the AMSAT Journal or on this reflector by a Board member.
Perhaps the short answer is - not many care, but I really can't believe that.
Comments have recently been made about Eagle. A look at the 2008 Budget and you'll see "zero" dollars identified for Eagle satellite hardware development. Yet the published "Mission Vision" for AMSAT is "to deploy high earth orbit satellite systems that offer daily coverage by 2009 and continuous coverage by 2012." (see page 2 of the March/April 2008 AMSAT Journal)
Now - do you think that "Vision" is realistic or should there be some accounting for why that is still being touted as a reason to financially support the organization.
The AMSAT Board nominees should be prepared to address this over riding issue of what I'll call "Mission Accountability."
Well, I go put on my flame retardant flack jacket...Bill - N6GHz
Joe Westbrook wrote:
Bruce: looks like you have the same question that I have.
I know how to use the on-line translators, but you still won't find the answers that donners need to know. I'm not suggesting that they disclose sensitive information, simply a statement like we have identified possible launch opportunities, they cost $xxxxxxx.00, this is the target launch date we have a remaining delta of $xxxxxxxx.00.
I fail to see how that would put a launch opportunity in jeopardy.
- Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Robertson" [email protected] To: "Edward Cole" [email protected] Cc: "AMSAT" [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Edward Cole [email protected] wrote:
Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers.
Isn't the story very simple regarding the critical step of launching P3E: they're looking for an affordable ride, and there are none on the horizon?
I assume it is very hard to enter into negotiations looking for a cut-rate on a launch while publicly naming the party you are negotiating with. If I were that party, the first thing I'd insist is that there be no mention until a deal is reached, because my organization could end up looking like bad guys for even entertaining the idea.
On the technical side of P3E, I think we've been reasonably well-informed, but then I don't think AMSAT-DL is obliged to report in English any more than AMSAT-NA is obliged to publish its reports in Japanese and German because significant donors came from those countries. We can always get by with online translators if we don't know German. It works pretty well; I can show you how.
73, Bruce VE9QRP _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dude, don't get your knickers in a twist, my post wasn't an indictment of FM Repeaters. I don't use them (ever)and frankly could care less what they cost to run. I am however interested in Satellites that offer just a bit more of a challenge (HEOs) than operating an airborne version of the terrestrial version providing more reward for your efforts.
----- Original Message - From: "Edward Cole" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:57 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers.
We all realize that the builders and creators are working hard and puting in many volunteer hours, but for the greater satellite community to keep interested and supporting they need to hear what is happening (fairly frequently). That does take some time and effort away from direct project work but is very neccessary for a volunteer run organization.
When looking for news on P3E I can find little on-line that is recent (most dates two years old), or is only in german language (which I do not read/speak). Even if things are at a full standstill the supporting membership is owed an occassional update. That may generate a few "grousing remarks" from a few but that goes with the task.
Amsat Journal does attempt this to a degree, but I think the summary remarks should be given either on Amsat-bb or ANS which is available to all. Regular news tells the general satellite community that the leadership cares about their support.
It would be good if P3E were to share on Amsat-bb or at least post more regular reports to Amsat-DL website. As an Amsat-NA field op I get questions that I am not able to answer...that should not happen very often. Certainly the basic stuff like how are the new satellite projects coming and when can we expect them to be launched.
Since AO-10/13 there has been a long wait for the next full HEO sat. AO-40 did not last long enough and it has been a few years since then! A lot of folks are trying to be patient and need some words to help them keep the faith.
73, Ed - KL7UW BP40iq, 6m - 3cm 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xp20, 185w http://www.kl7uw.com AK VHF-Up Group NA Rep. for DUBUS: [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (4)
-
Bill Ress -
Bruce Robertson -
Edward Cole -
Joe Westbrook