Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits. A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft. NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation. The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO. Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you.V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee. No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment. David G0MRF
New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits. A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft. NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation. The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF
New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Likewise only a electiptical orbit with U,V L &S (AO-40 sobsob) 73 Bob W7LRD
On 11/05/2021 9:50 AM Ryland Bayne <ryland.bayne@gmail.com> wrote: I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles... 73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne) On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com > wrote: > > David,Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects. So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it. Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money. As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail" 73 Jean Marc (3B8DU) > > > On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org > wrote:It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO. Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station! If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee. No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee. Good luck. It's a tough assignment. David G0MRF > > > > New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.> > >-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org > To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org > Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits. A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft. NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation. The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost. 73, Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT) ----------------------------------------------------------- Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)http://amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)http://amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences athttps://mailman.amsat.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)http://amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)http://amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org > >----------------------------------------------------------- Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)http://amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)http://amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org >----------------------------------------------------------- Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Hi Guys,
Look like we have a chance over a few millions odds, but why not try, play the lottery if lucky we will have it.
Actually I will play the Loto here also for AMSAT tomorrow and promise all eventual gain of that ticket will be solely for a new bird, result tomorrow evening…
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:12 PM, 73 Bob W7LRD w7lrd@comcast.net wrote:
Likewise only a electiptical orbit with U,V L &S (AO-40 sobsob) 73 Bob W7LRD
On 11/05/2021 9:50 AM Ryland Bayne ryland.bayne@gmail.com wrote:
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote: David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Dear All,
I actually bought 2 Mauritius Loto tickets:
1) No: 693-043781634-081091 any gain will go for AMSAT-NA for HEO 2) No: 693-028342787-082191 for HEO to AMSAT-DL
The ticket PIC will be sent on Twitter.
A very remote chance but why not try for the fun, I never play for money but as for a good cause our good stars may help…
Results tonight but will only check tomorrow.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:42 PM, Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Guys,
Look like we have a chance over a few millions odds, but why not try, play the lottery if lucky we will have it.
Actually I will play the Loto here also for AMSAT tomorrow and promise all eventual gain of that ticket will be solely for a new bird, result tomorrow evening…
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:12 PM, 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd@comcast.net mailto:w7lrd@comcast.net> wrote:
Likewise only a electiptical orbit with U,V L &S (AO-40 sobsob) 73 Bob W7LRD
On 11/05/2021 9:50 AM Ryland Bayne <ryland.bayne@gmail.com mailto:ryland.bayne@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote: David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
I have, in my possession, a single quick pick for tonight's Powerball drawing with an estimated jackpot of $146 million American dollars. If I hit it, AMSAT-NA is getting $46 million of it. The winning numbers are:
27 37 61 65 66 and the powerball is 17
73's de KI4SIY
On Sat, Nov 6, 2021, 06:58 Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
Dear All,
I actually bought 2 Mauritius Loto tickets:
- No: 693-043781634-081091 any gain will go for AMSAT-NA for HEO
- No: 693-028342787-082191 for HEO to AMSAT-DL
The ticket PIC will be sent on Twitter.
A very remote chance but why not try for the fun, I never play for money but as for a good cause our good stars may help…
Results tonight but will only check tomorrow.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:42 PM, Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Guys,
Look like we have a chance over a few millions odds, but why not try, play the lottery if lucky we will have it.
Actually I will play the Loto here also for AMSAT tomorrow and promise all eventual gain of that ticket will be solely for a new bird, result tomorrow evening…
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:12 PM, 73 Bob W7LRD w7lrd@comcast.net wrote:
Likewise only a electiptical orbit with U,V L &S (AO-40 sobsob) 73 Bob W7LRD
On 11/05/2021 9:50 AM Ryland Bayne ryland.bayne@gmail.com wrote:
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF
New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Great,
All the best and good luck. We definitely need some kind of lottery/ lot of cash or donations to make GEO/HEO happen, lets cross figures and in any case worth trying.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 6, 2021, at 8:09 PM, Ryland Bayne ryland.bayne@gmail.com wrote:
I have, in my possession, a single quick pick for tonight's Powerball drawing with an estimated jackpot of $146 million American dollars. If I hit it, AMSAT-NA is getting $46 million of it. The winning numbers are:
27 37 61 65 66 and the powerball is 17
73's de KI4SIY
On Sat, Nov 6, 2021, 06:58 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote: Dear All,
I actually bought 2 Mauritius Loto tickets:
- No: 693-043781634-081091 any gain will go for AMSAT-NA for HEO
- No: 693-028342787-082191 for HEO to AMSAT-DL
The ticket PIC will be sent on Twitter.
A very remote chance but why not try for the fun, I never play for money but as for a good cause our good stars may help…
Results tonight but will only check tomorrow.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:42 PM, Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guys,
Look like we have a chance over a few millions odds, but why not try, play the lottery if lucky we will have it.
Actually I will play the Loto here also for AMSAT tomorrow and promise all eventual gain of that ticket will be solely for a new bird, result tomorrow evening…
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 9:12 PM, 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd@comcast.net mailto:w7lrd@comcast.net> wrote:
Likewise only a electiptical orbit with U,V L &S (AO-40 sobsob) 73 Bob W7LRD
On 11/05/2021 9:50 AM Ryland Bayne <ryland.bayne@gmail.com mailto:ryland.bayne@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote: David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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James,
We need new GEOs or HEOs, have you bought the lottery ticket?
I bought 2 and beneficiaries are AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-NA, see my Tweet @3B8DU. But unfortunately the jackpot much less this side but in the order of US$240k which in case of win may help.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 8:50 PM, Ryland Bayne ryland.bayne@gmail.com wrote:
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@gmail.com mailto:jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote: David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/ Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org https://mailman.amsat.org/
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Having worked the qo100 as well as LEOs, I can tell you that the elliptical orbit is no substitute for a geostationary sat. With qo100 i am on all the time, the antenna points in one direction at all times. It is GEO or bust. Get the money and get the GEO. It js worth the effort.
On Sat, Nov 6, 2021, 8:15 PM Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
James,
We need new GEOs or HEOs, have you bought the lottery ticket?
I bought 2 and beneficiaries are AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-NA, see my Tweet @3B8DU. But unfortunately the jackpot much less this side but in the order of US$240k which in case of win may help.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 8:50 PM, Ryland Bayne ryland.bayne@gmail.com wrote:
I'm going to play the lottery this weekend and if I win the $146 Million Powerball jackpot, we're getting a geosynchronous satellite with ALL of the bells and whistles...
73's de KI4SIY (Otherwise known as faithful AMSAT life member James Bayne)
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 12:35 Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
David,
Fully agree that it is a tough and expensive project. But if the HAM community (at large/worlwide) contribute to the global AMSAT HEO/satellite projects with just say 5US$ per head, the calculation is simple: 5 x 3 millions (about) = 15M assuming only half contribute say 7.5M which is enough for a few projects.
So my conclusion is that with good coordinated outreach to all HAM organization worldwide (may be by IARU) we may make it.
Just after this mail I will donate to AMSAT-NA some $ (recently donated to AMSAT-DL) and hope that if all on the BB do so that a HEO will be up there soon, as to win a war the best ammunition is money.
As someone said “together we can make it, alone we all fail"
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 5, 2021, at 7:20 PM, David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you. V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite, then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment.
David G0MRF
New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
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On 2021-11-06 19:04, Ashhar Farhan wrote:
Having worked the qo100 as well as LEOs, I can tell you that the elliptical orbit is no substitute for a geostationary sat. With qo100 i am on all the time, the antenna points in one direction at all times. It is GEO or bust. Get the money and get the GEO. It js worth the effort.
Ashhar,
Speaking only for my own interests:
I take the counter-argument; GEO is no substitute for LEO/MEO/HEO.
A GEO provides a static ground footprint and does not have the "chase" that the other satellite orbits provide. A GEO bird, to me, sounds like just another repeater-on-the-hill (except in space). No trans-Atlantic chases or coverage over the poles.
For the price of a GEO ride, AMSAT might be able to get dozens of other orbital rides spaced over many years. When the GEO bird breaks, that's it.
That said, there are many members in AMSAT who long for a GEO satellite and I do understand that need. Hopefully, we can get to a fleet that satisfies everyone.
--- Zach N0ZGO
Zach, You are so right. I ran out of excitement on the QO100 after a month. I am chasing RS44, there is an excitement of the kill with LEOs. I use entirely homebrew equipment. However, what does it cost to lease out a transponder of 300 khz spectrum on a regular geostationary Comsat?
On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, 7:03 AM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 2021-11-06 19:04, Ashhar Farhan wrote:
Having worked the qo100 as well as LEOs, I can tell you that the elliptical orbit is no substitute for a geostationary sat. With qo100 i am on all the time, the antenna points in one direction at all times. It is GEO or bust. Get the money and get the GEO. It js worth the effort.
Ashhar,
Speaking only for my own interests:
I take the counter-argument; GEO is no substitute for LEO/MEO/HEO.
A GEO provides a static ground footprint and does not have the "chase" that the other satellite orbits provide. A GEO bird, to me, sounds like just another repeater-on-the-hill (except in space). No trans-Atlantic chases or coverage over the poles.
For the price of a GEO ride, AMSAT might be able to get dozens of other orbital rides spaced over many years. When the GEO bird breaks, that's it.
That said, there are many members in AMSAT who long for a GEO satellite and I do understand that need. Hopefully, we can get to a fleet that satisfies everyone.
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Gotta agree with the others that for me, working a GEO Sat is not any different than dialing up a local repeater but I’m from the old school that goes with the “if it’s not hard to do, it’s not worth doing” era. Been on the birds since the early days & still enjoy them.
Mike N7ASZ
From: Ashhar Farhan farhanbox@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 7:50 PM To: Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com Cc: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Looking to HEO
Zach,
You are so right. I ran out of excitement on the QO100 after a month. I am chasing RS44, there is an excitement of the kill with LEOs. I use entirely homebrew equipment.
However, what does it cost to lease out a transponder of 300 khz spectrum on a regular geostationary Comsat?
On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, 7:03 AM Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@pobox.com mailto:zmetzing@pobox.com > wrote:
On 2021-11-06 19:04, Ashhar Farhan wrote:
Having worked the qo100 as well as LEOs, I can tell you that the elliptical orbit is no substitute for a geostationary sat. With qo100 i am on all the time, the antenna points in one direction at all times. It is GEO or bust. Get the money and get the GEO. It js worth the effort.
Ashhar,
Speaking only for my own interests:
I take the counter-argument; GEO is no substitute for LEO/MEO/HEO.
A GEO provides a static ground footprint and does not have the "chase" that the other satellite orbits provide. A GEO bird, to me, sounds like just another repeater-on-the-hill (except in space). No trans-Atlantic chases or coverage over the poles.
For the price of a GEO ride, AMSAT might be able to get dozens of other orbital rides spaced over many years. When the GEO bird breaks, that's it.
That said, there are many members in AMSAT who long for a GEO satellite and I do understand that need. Hopefully, we can get to a fleet that satisfies everyone.
--- Zach N0ZGO
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Left out of this discussion is the US Navy's Fleet Satellite Communications System (FLTSATCOM), a set of remarkably long-lived (launched between 1978 and 1989) geostationary satellites that provide “bent pipe” transponders operating between 240 MHz and 400 MHz. Remarkably, there is no encryption, authentication, or access controls on these transponders. You transmit up to them, they transmit back down. Some of the FLTSATCOM transponders are wide-band, supporting whatever mode is transmitted to them - SSB, FM, data, etc.
“Pirate users” in Brazil have used it with relative impunity. See the 2009 article in Wired - The Great Brazilian Sat-Hack Crackdown. Despite that “crackdown”, the “Brazilian pirate users” are still active.
Steve Stroh, N8GNJ has previously floated this notion in his weekly letter:
"If there are (apparently, inevitably) going to be “secondary users” of FLTSATCOM, perhaps it's worth consideration that US Amateur Radio Operators would be better “secondary users” of FLTSATCOM than “Brazilian pirate users”. There's some precedent in such an idea of sharing spectrum and interoperating between US government and US Amateur Radio Operators - the sharing of the 60 meter (5 MHz band) between FEMA and US Amateur Radio Operators and of course, the Military Auxiliary Radio System (MARS). There’s also some precedent in the US Military turning over a satellite to Amateur Radio use. In 2017 the US Air Force Academy transferred control of FalconSAT-3 to Amateur Radio operators (some accounts say control was transferred to AMSAT-NA).”
https://zeroretries.substack.com/p/zero-retries-0012
He had considerably more to say about it in his letter (see the link) and I think he makes a good case and what’s more, I think it’s the only/best shot we have for such a resource over our friendly skies. If nothing else, it’s additional mental flotsam to consider in this matter.
73, Jeff KE9V AMSAT 28350
Jeff,
Thanks.
I read the paper with great pleasure and may be a solution for Region 2, but I believe that it may work only for USA as getting HAMs on these frequencies in other countries Region 2 countries may be a real regulatory nightmare.
I also firmly believe that we HAM must have a global vision for the future (HEO, GEO and LEO’s), motivate the OM's and pull resources worldwide to a common goal (whatever it is after consensus) thus creating synergies and global funding. I know perfectly that this is not an easy task and all our leaders need to move out of their zone of comfort but if possible it may be a game changer.
My 1 cent input.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 7, 2021, at 3:39 PM, jeff@ke9v.net wrote:
Left out of this discussion is the US Navy's Fleet Satellite Communications System (FLTSATCOM), a set of remarkably long-lived (launched between 1978 and 1989) geostationary satellites that provide “bent pipe” transponders operating between 240 MHz and 400 MHz. Remarkably, there is no encryption, authentication, or access controls on these transponders. You transmit up to them, they transmit back down. Some of the FLTSATCOM transponders are wide-band, supporting whatever mode is transmitted to them - SSB, FM, data, etc.
“Pirate users” in Brazil have used it with relative impunity. See the 2009 article in Wired - The Great Brazilian Sat-Hack Crackdown. Despite that “crackdown”, the “Brazilian pirate users” are still active.
Steve Stroh, N8GNJ has previously floated this notion in his weekly letter:
"If there are (apparently, inevitably) going to be “secondary users” of FLTSATCOM, perhaps it's worth consideration that US Amateur Radio Operators would be better “secondary users” of FLTSATCOM than “Brazilian pirate users”. There's some precedent in such an idea of sharing spectrum and interoperating between US government and US Amateur Radio Operators - the sharing of the 60 meter (5 MHz band) between FEMA and US Amateur Radio Operators and of course, the Military Auxiliary Radio System (MARS). There’s also some precedent in the US Military turning over a satellite to Amateur Radio use. In 2017 the US Air Force Academy transferred control of FalconSAT-3 to Amateur Radio operators (some accounts say control was transferred to AMSAT-NA).”
https://zeroretries.substack.com/p/zero-retries-0012
He had considerably more to say about it in his letter (see the link) and I think he makes a good case and what’s more, I think it’s the only/best shot we have for such a resource over our friendly skies. If nothing else, it’s additional mental flotsam to consider in this matter.
73, Jeff KE9V AMSAT 28350
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I'm looking for a working G-5500 rotor assembly only, controller box not needed, but will also take as a package sale. The older 5500 or the newer 5500DC will work for me. Email me asking price privately. Thanks...
73 Jeff kb2m
On Sun, Nov 07, 2021 at 05:34:48AM +0530, Ashhar Farhan wrote:
Having worked the qo100 as well as LEOs, I can tell you that the elliptical orbit is no substitute for a geostationary sat. With qo100 i am on all the time, the antenna points in one direction at all times. It is GEO or bust. Get the money and get the GEO. It js worth the effort.
A Molynia or Tundra orbit is much more useful for those of us in Canada. Best to have 3 in that orbit of course and is rather less expensive to put up than a GEO. *shrug*
Diane, VA3DB
I assure you, a deorbit propulsion system, will not suffice. The government will not trust AMSAT to produce one that will last years on orbit. The recent ISS emergency after Russian ASAT has everyone "woke" (that word should suffice to demonstrate how bad I think the situation is).
There is, in my estimation, only one future path that is viable for small groups with any part of their orbit outside of low LEO (God provides the deorbit propulsion).
Bob
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:29 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Bob’s,
Yes, the recent Russian ASAT is a shame but do not forget that all frontline/military space faring Governments have done so (including Chinas and USA), thus do what I say and not what I do… Shame on all of them. Unfortunately politics seems more important that the human cause. Also seems that humans are more eager to destroy that to built, our nature/DNA I guess.
That said, why focus on US policies and laws, HAMs are global thus any country can put a bird up there bypassing your local jurisdictions, more using open source technologies makes ITAR obsolete. E.g. using as prime leader in a project any other country makes thing easier, just a thought which to my opinion worth a thought.
We just have to get organized on a global basis and focus on a global satellite strategy instead of being locked up into regional AMSAT organization interest, sorry again to quote QO-100 as an example which change 1/2 of the world HAM lifestyle but in spite to be a AMSAT-DL initiative it is a real plus and if all join forces we may achieve even greater success with any satellite project.
My one cent input.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:01 PM, Robert McGwier rwmcgwier@gmail.com wrote:
I assure you, a deorbit propulsion system, will not suffice. The government will not trust AMSAT to produce one that will last years on orbit. The recent ISS emergency after Russian ASAT has everyone "woke" (that word should suffice to demonstrate how bad I think the situation is).
There is, in my estimation, only one future path that is viable for small groups with any part of their orbit outside of low LEO (God provides the deorbit propulsion).
Bob
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:29 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/ https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Jean Marc, You are conflating two separate issues. While United States ITAR/EAR/OFAC regulations restrict exports of U.S. technologies, each satellite must still be licensed to operate in space by the jurisdiction for which the licensee resides. As such, developing and building satellites on a global scale does not relieve us of obtaining permission to launch a satellite from our local government. There are more permissive governments, but, in doing so, we would have to relinquish full ownership and control of that satellite. As Bob N4HY is pointing out and what I have repeatedly stated, orbital debris regulations (not ITAR/EAR) represent our greatest threat for future development of satellites. It is not impossible, but the road to higher orbits is certainly getting tougher.
73, Robert Bankston, KE4ALPresidentRadio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
On Thursday, November 18, 2021, 12:01:15 PM CST, Jean Marc Momple jean.marc.momple@gmail.com wrote:
Bob’s, Yes, the recent Russian ASAT is a shame but do not forget that all frontline/military space faring Governments have done so (including Chinas and USA), thus do what I say and not what I do… Shame on all of them. Unfortunately politics seems more important that the human cause. Also seems that humans are more eager to destroy that to built, our nature/DNA I guess. That said, why focus on US policies and laws, HAMs are global thus any country can put a bird up there bypassing your local jurisdictions, more using open source technologies makes ITAR obsolete. E.g. using as prime leader in a project any other country makes thing easier, just a thought which to my opinion worth a thought. We just have to get organized on a global basis and focus on a global satellite strategy instead of being locked up into regional AMSAT organization interest, sorry again to quote QO-100 as an example which change 1/2 of the world HAM lifestyle but in spite to be a AMSAT-DL initiative it is a real plus and if all join forces we may achieve even greater success with any satellite project. My one cent input. 73 Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:01 PM, Robert McGwier rwmcgwier@gmail.com wrote: I assure you, a deorbit propulsion system, will not suffice. The government will not trust AMSAT to produce one that will last years on orbit. The recent ISS emergency after Russian ASAT has everyone "woke" (that word should suffice to demonstrate how bad I think the situation is). There is, in my estimation, only one future path that is viable for small groups with any part of their orbit outside of low LEO (God provides the deorbit propulsion). Bob
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:29 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits. A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft. NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation. The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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Agree with the latter, it highly restricts how we get there. That is only going to get worse. Starlink and other's plans and bad actor ASATs make this a hit burner issue. Many recent meetings have been held with FCC informing the of the horrid impacts. I do not know what, if any, difference will have been made because we do not have a test case.
73s N4HY
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 12:41 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Jean Marc,
You are conflating two separate issues. While United States ITAR/EAR/OFAC regulations restrict exports of U.S. technologies, each satellite must still be licensed to operate in space by the jurisdiction for which the licensee resides. As such, developing and building satellites on a global scale does not relieve us of obtaining permission to launch a satellite from our local government. There are more permissive governments, but, in doing so, we would have to relinquish full ownership and control of that satellite.
As Bob N4HY is pointing out and what I have repeatedly stated, orbital debris regulations (not ITAR/EAR) represent our greatest threat for future development of satellites. It is not impossible, but the road to higher orbits is certainly getting tougher.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
On Thursday, November 18, 2021, 12:01:15 PM CST, Jean Marc Momple < jean.marc.momple@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob’s,
Yes, the recent Russian ASAT is a shame but do not forget that all frontline/military space faring Governments have done so (including Chinas and USA), thus do what I say and not what I do… Shame on all of them. Unfortunately politics seems more important that the human cause. Also seems that humans are more eager to destroy that to built, our nature/DNA I guess.
That said, why focus on US policies and laws, HAMs are global thus any country can put a bird up there bypassing your local jurisdictions, more using open source technologies makes ITAR obsolete. E.g. using as prime leader in a project any other country makes thing easier, just a thought which to my opinion worth a thought.
We just have to get organized on a global basis and focus on a global satellite strategy instead of being locked up into regional AMSAT organization interest, sorry again to quote QO-100 as an example which change 1/2 of the world HAM lifestyle but in spite to be a AMSAT-DL initiative it is a real plus and if all join forces we may achieve even greater success with any satellite project.
My one cent input.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:01 PM, Robert McGwier rwmcgwier@gmail.com wrote:
I assure you, a deorbit propulsion system, will not suffice. The government will not trust AMSAT to produce one that will last years on orbit. The recent ISS emergency after Russian ASAT has everyone "woke" (that word should suffice to demonstrate how bad I think the situation is).
There is, in my estimation, only one future path that is viable for small groups with any part of their orbit outside of low LEO (God provides the deorbit propulsion).
Bob
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:29 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million. Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
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participants (12)
-
73 Bob W7LRD -
Ashhar Farhan -
David G0MRF -
Diane Bruce -
Jean Marc Momple -
jeff griffin -
jeff＠ke9v.net -
Mike Lucas -
Robert Bankston -
Robert McGwier -
Ryland Bayne -
Zach Metzinger