New subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 464

13 Sep 2009

      It pains me to have to spend any energy answering all these comments  
about the Suitsat-2 and AMSAT problems.
Here are the facts:
No flights were missed. The Russians and the ARISS team have been  
working very hard to put together Suitsat-2 in a timely manner so that  
we could catch a ride to ISS on a Progress mission. The Russians  
declared the suit excess quite a while ago. The ISS is getting more  
and more crowded since it is now crewed by six people.
There is a real problem with clearance around all the equipment on  
ISS. It's to the point of becoming a safety hazard. Each side has a  
finite amount of  volume allocated.
The suits were seen as a safety hazard because of this crowdedness.  
There wasn't a case of no one being notified. We all knew there was a  
space problem.
It simply came down to a priority situation. Do you throw away  
something that you need to keep and have spent an enormous amount of  
money getting to ISS, or something that is very low on the priority?  
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where Suitsat fell on  
that list.
In actuality this may have been a very good thing. We were having a  
very difficult time trying to figure out how to properly attach the  
solar panels to the suit so that they could properly power the  
electronics. Now we will take the solar panels and form a satellite  
enclosure around the electronics planned for Suitsat 2 and call it  
ARISSat-1.
We have been working very hard on designing this new configuration and  
are making excellent progress due to some very hard working volunteers  
both here in the U.S. and in Russia. I am sure the amount of work that  
is going on will never be realized by most on this BB but it is  
tremendous. What you hear about is only the tip of the iceberg. Not  
because its a secret but because most of us don't take the time to  
toot our horn. We should but thats the facts.
The team has not had time to listen to this series of comments on the  
BB because we are all dedicated to getting the project done in as fast  
and reliable a way as we can.
I can tell you this is a very dedicated team and all are working hard  
and doing their best to finish their tasks while keeping their jobs  
and sanity. If you want names and more information come to the AMSAT  
symposium and meet some of them.
The Russians send up Progress resupply missions to ISS regularly so  
there will be other chances to send up the new ARISSat-1 satellite.
There are at least four Russian EVAs planned for next year so there  
will be other chances to deploy ARISSat-1 so not to fret. The most  
important thing is to take the proper time to make sure it is done  
right so it will work properly and safely.
So those of you who have actual questions about the facts can send me  
or Gould Smith a private e-mail and I will try to answer you with  
facts. If you want to complain and not help, please don't send them to  
me or the team. We are too busy trying our best to make it happen just  
like we have been doing for many years on AMSAT, SAREX and ARISS  
projects.
If you really do want to help, send me or any of the BOD a resume and  
tell us how you can help.
So I suggest you use this BB for it's intended purpose as being a way  
to exchange information about satellite operations. Don't use it as a  
way to pump your ego or to trash others.
Let's don't  loose sight of the true objectives here. Let's have fun  
and leave a legacy for those coming after us that we will all be proud  
of. My grandson just got his Ham license that makes me very proud!
Lou McFadin
W5DID
AMSAT BOD
ARISS US Hardware manager
On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:10 PM, amsat-bb-request@amsat.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:

Re: Volunteered (Mark Lunday)
FN51 operations (Dave Webb  KB1PVH)
AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 (Mark L. Hammond)
Re: (Reporting web pages needing updates) (John P. Toscano)
Re: AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 (Andrew Rich)
Re: Volunteered (Bill Ress)
Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones)
Re: Volunteered (rwmcgwier@gmail.com)
Re: Volunteered (Dale Hershberger)
Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones)
Re: Volunteered (Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF)
Re: Volunteered (Kevin Smith)
Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones)
Re: Volunteered (Andrew Rich)

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:50:30 -0400
From: "Mark Lunday" mlunday@nc.rr.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: "'Rocky Jones'" orbitjet@hotmail.com, bruninga@usna.edu,
   bill@hsmicrowave.com
Cc: rswart1@twcny.rr.com, 'Amsat BB' amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 002f01ca33ea$aa7245e0$ff56d1a0$@rr.com
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
Chiming in, after watching this go back and forth and feeling  
frustrated
here.
The issue here is about holding volunteers accountable as if they  
were paid
staff.  It's about expectations as well.
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off.   
What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some,  
anyway) have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
full-time paid staff.  Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).  None of the volunteers can  
provide
that kind of support day-in and day-out.  Holding volunteers to that
standard is, in my opinion, a mistake.
Having said that, what AMSAT volunteers have accomplished is SO FAR  
ABOVE
what a normal volunteer organization achieves, that it BOGGLES THE  
MIND.  I
have been an AMSAT member for 18 months and active on satellites for  
about
as long.  To see what has been achieved by volunteers, spanning across
geography, is AMAZING.  The ability to ask ANY question about  
satellites in
general and AMSAT in particular on this BB, and get an accurate  
response in
a timely fashion is impressive.  The collective intellectual capital  
and
horsepower is deep and very valuable.
And THAT'S the issue!  We're so accustomed to outstanding  
performance on so
many things with AMSAT that we start *expecting* above and beyond in  
all
cases.  That's not always realistic.
I had a few 1:1 threads with some folks about this over the past few  
days,
and I think we could address some of the problems if we had a paid  
position
or two. I understand that this is being presented to the ARRL in the  
near
future (additional funding support)
Another side note: it sounds like more communication/interaction  
would help
clarify some of these questions and concerns.  Regular status  
reporting on
progress for specific projects would help the community understand:
(1) the progress
(2) the risks
(3) the level of effort provided by the volunteers
(4) opportunities for additional input for addressing problems  
(leveraging
some of that powerful intellectual capital and horsepower in our  
community).
Meanwhile, as a project manager w/ PMP cert, Electrical Engineer,  
and a 35
year ham with military background, I am raising my hand as a  
volunteer for
helping with the planning of future AMSAT projects
Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb
wd4elg@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:18:07 +0000
From: "Dave Webb  KB1PVH" kb1pvh@gmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb]  FN51 operations
To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID:
   <1853931992-1252790287- 
cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-401973086- 
@bda400.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello all,
I have arrived at FN51 on Cape Cod. Unfortunately, it is raining,  
thundering, and a bit of lightning. I think it is best to hold off  
for a bit from waving my lightning rod at the sky.
If things clear up a bit, I will give it a shot. The weather is  
supposed to be better tomorrow.
73,
Dave KB1PVH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:27:15 -0400
From: "Mark L. Hammond" marklhammond@gmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb]  AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 4aac1231.47c1f10a.6666.fffff60e@mx.google.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Reloading of the satellite continues.
From the front page of the AMSAT web page:
AO-51 is off the air while the software reload is in progress. We  
hope to have it operational by the first of the week.
AO-51 Command team
73,
Mark L. Hammond  [N8MH]

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:46:06 -0500
From: "John P. Toscano" tosca005@tc.umn.edu
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: (Reporting web pages needing updates)
Cc: "'Amsat BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 4AAC169E.7020908@tc.umn.edu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Andrew Rich (Home) wrote:
...
No I meant
amsatwebchanges@amsat.org
" I found this page is old and needs to be deleted"
Many hands make light work
Andrew: I think that the following solution will help you accomplish
your goal...
At the bottom of many pages of the AMSAT web site is a link entitled:
  "Report a bug on this page"
Click on the link, and a form pops up. The form is pre-filled with the
URL of the "offending" web page, i.e. the web page you were on at the
time you clicked on the link. Fill in the rest of the form and click  
on
the button labeled:
  Submit Report
One of the questions on the form is "Issue Type", and the drop-down  
list
include numerous choices, such as:
  -- malformed text
  -- broken link
  -- outdated information
  -- misspelling
  -- punctuation
and several others. You don't even have to start up your email client;
the form goes to the appropriate person when you click on the Submit  
button.
If the page with a problem does not have one of these links on it, you
could manually type in the following URL into your browser:
  http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/bugform.php
The only problem with this is you will have to manually fill in the  
line
on the form that specifies what web page is problematic. Of course,
before you change to this URL, use your mouse to highlight the current
URL (where the problem is located), hit Ctrl+C to copy the URL to the
Windows Clipboard, then go to the bugform page, mouse or tab to that
field, and hit Ctrl+V to paste in the URL. [My apologies in advance  
for
giving you Windows-centric instructions if you are using a different  
OS
family.]
This seems even easier to me than an email alias to which you send
problem reports, but maybe that's just me...
But I clearly agree, a thousand pairs of eyes can find more errors and
omissions than a single pair of eyes.  www.nlrs.org (which I maintain)
is comprised of over 4000 files, so I assume that www.amsat.org is  
much
bigger!
73 de W0JT

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:51:59 +1000
From: "Andrew Rich" vk4tec@tech-software.net
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org, "Mark L. Hammond" marklhammond@gmail.com
Message-ID: 1E3E3D647EFE4E4E899F5249C789AC3B@home9e3111fa81
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
   reply-type=original
Vista probs huh

Andrew Rich
Airways Technical Officer Grade 4
Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B
Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC
email: vk4tec@tech-software.net
web: www.tech-software.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark L. Hammond" marklhammond@gmail.com
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:27 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009
...
Reloading of the satellite continues.
From the front page of the AMSAT web page:
AO-51 is off the air while the software reload is in progress. We  
hope to
have it operational by the first of the week.
AO-51 Command team
73,
Mark L. Hammond  [N8MH]
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:06:49 -0700
From: Bill Ress bill@hsmicrowave.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Mark Lunday mlunday@nc.rr.com
Cc: rswart1@twcny.rr.com, 'Amsat BB' amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 4AAC1B79.4070806@hsmicrowave.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comments and your offer to volunteer.
Why don't you contact me off line and we can talk about your specific
interests.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Mark Lunday wrote:
...
Chiming in, after watching this go back and forth and feeling  
frustrated
here.
The issue here is about holding volunteers accountable as if they  
were paid
staff.  It's about expectations as well.
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts  
off.  What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some,  
anyway) have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
full-time paid staff.  Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).  None of the volunteers can  
provide
that kind of support day-in and day-out.  Holding volunteers to that
standard is, in my opinion, a mistake.
Having said that, what AMSAT volunteers have accomplished is SO FAR  
ABOVE
what a normal volunteer organization achieves, that it BOGGLES THE  
MIND.  I
have been an AMSAT member for 18 months and active on satellites  
for about
as long.  To see what has been achieved by volunteers, spanning  
across
geography, is AMAZING.  The ability to ask ANY question about  
satellites in
general and AMSAT in particular on this BB, and get an accurate  
response in
a timely fashion is impressive.  The collective intellectual  
capital and
horsepower is deep and very valuable.
And THAT'S the issue!  We're so accustomed to outstanding  
performance on so
many things with AMSAT that we start *expecting* above and beyond  
in all
cases.  That's not always realistic.
I had a few 1:1 threads with some folks about this over the past  
few days,
and I think we could address some of the problems if we had a paid  
position
or two. I understand that this is being presented to the ARRL in  
the near
future (additional funding support)
Another side note: it sounds like more communication/interaction  
would help
clarify some of these questions and concerns.  Regular status  
reporting on
progress for specific projects would help the community understand:
(1) the progress
(2) the risks
(3) the level of effort provided by the volunteers
(4) opportunities for additional input for addressing problems  
(leveraging
some of that powerful intellectual capital and horsepower in our  
community).
Meanwhile, as a project manager w/ PMP cert, Electrical Engineer,  
and a 35
year ham with military background, I am raising my hand as a  
volunteer for
helping with the planning of future AMSAT projects
Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb
wd4elg@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:09:47 -0500
From: Rocky Jones orbitjet@hotmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: mlunday@nc.rr.com, bruninga@usna.edu, bill@hsmicrowave.com
Cc: rswart1@twcny.rr.com, Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: COL106-W241B6E30399C6831599B8AD6E60@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
...
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts  
off.  What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some,  
anyway) have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
full-time paid staff.  Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
Mark.
"level of performance".
No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to  
equal the work through put of a paid employee...
For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can  
get into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is  
expected to have three sermons a week ready to go...
But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the  
tools being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into  
the pulpit in the first place.
It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who  
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is  
on...but for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to  
meet a minimium level of competency and demonstrate that.
No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links  
and then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit  
more "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other  
reason to make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are  
well understood.
Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so  
complicated that they missed their free launch.
I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad  
management.
That reality seems to bite some folks
Robert WB5MZO

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:05:07 +0000
From: rwmcgwier@gmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: "Rocky Jones" orbitjet@hotmail.com, amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org,
   mlunday@nc.rr.com, bruninga@usna.edu, "Bill Ress"
   bill@hsmicrowave.com
Cc: rswart1@twcny.rr.com, amsat bb amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID:
   <1167601682-1252796952- 
cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1812505125- 
@bda357.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain
This is unadulterated bull shit made from whole cloth.
We have a free launch just as we have always have.  The russians, as  
is their right when they have command, decided with all the  
equipment modeled people coming up to toss all orlan suits without  
notice to us (and they owed us nothing).
I would be the very last person to say AMSAT is above all criticism  
but you are clearly nor the spokesperson needed for the critics.   
Your notes are those of a person who wants to fiddle while he burns  
Rome.  What is needed in my not so humble opinion is a spokesperson  
for the critics who is not perceived as full of animus.
Bob
N4HY LM
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Jones orbitjet@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:09:47
To: mlunday@nc.rr.com; bruninga@usna.edu; bill@hsmicrowave.com
Cc: rswart1@twcny.rr.com; Amsat BBamsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
...
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts  
off.  What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some,  
anyway) have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
full-time paid staff.  Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
Mark.
"level of performance".
No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to  
equal the work through put of a paid employee...
For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can  
get into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is  
expected to have three sermons a week ready to go...
But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the  
tools being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into  
the pulpit in the first place.
It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who  
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is  
on...but for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to  
meet a minimium level of competency and demonstrate that.
No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links  
and then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit  
more "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other  
reason to make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are  
well understood.
Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so  
complicated that they missed their free launch.
I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad  
management.
That reality seems to bite some folks
Robert WB5MZO

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the  
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite  
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:21:43 -0700
From: Dale Hershberger daleh@alaska.net
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Rocky Jones orbitjet@hotmail.com, amsat bbs amsat-bb@amsat.org
Cc: amsat bbs amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 4AAC1EF7.7070307@alaska.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Rocky Jones wrote:
...
...
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts  
off.  What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some,  
anyway) have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided  
by
full-time paid staff.  Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
Mark.
"level of performance".
No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to  
equal the work through put of a paid employee...
For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can  
get into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is  
expected to have three sermons a week ready to go...
But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the  
tools being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into  
the pulpit in the first place.
It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who  
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is  
on...but for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to  
meet a minimium level of competency and demonstrate that.
No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak  
links and then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a  
bit more "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no  
other reason to make sure that the methods that defeat the failure  
are well understood.
Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so  
complicated that they missed their free launch.
I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is  
bad management.
That reality seems to bite some folks
Robert WB5MZO

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the  
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite  
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I really want to reply in good faith.  It is very difficult in light  
of
the nature the tone of the way this thread is going.  I am a member of
AMSAT and
proud of it.  The organization is made up of volunteers.....Read
Volunteers!   Things will go wrong.. When we have problems we  look  
for
the weak points and focus
on the corrections that can be made.
What I do not understand is the persistent  bashing of the  BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation.   We are not the
Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF.
If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal
directly with them.
The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then
degrading or demeaning  the volunteer and contributing members of  
AMSAT.
We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good
information to contribute to all.  I just am really disappointed
to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where  
it
turns others off.
I do not expect a reply to this.  I just wanted to express my opinion
Dale - KL7XJ

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:17:45 -0500
From: Rocky Jones orbitjet@hotmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: daleh@alaska.net, Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: COL106-W58B6A2252EABA4D1398E82D6E50@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What I do not understand is the persistent  bashing of the  BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation.   We are not the
Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF.
If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal
directly with them.
The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then
degrading or demeaning  the volunteer and contributing members of  
AMSAT.
We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good
information to contribute to all.  I just am really disappointed
to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where  
it
turns others off.
I do not expect a reply to this.  I just wanted to express my opinion
Dale - KL7XJ
Dale.  Pointing out errors in performance that are consistent is not  
bashing...and it doesnt matter if they are volunteers or paid staff.
If they cannot deal with responsible criticism, and oddly enough no  
one has refuted the statement I made that 1) they missed a launch  
date and 2) in large measure because they bit off to large a  
project...
instead all one gets is "wow I am upset because you are pointing out  
flaws in my performance, I am a volunteer I work 16-18 hours a day  
and wow this is space".
No one is calling them stupid, indeed the only people who have blown  
their corks are those who dont have answers to reasonable questions.
Robert WB5MZO

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:12:41 +0000
From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF nigel@ngunn.net
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 4AAC5519.0@ngunn.net
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It amazes me that this group does not have an owner/moderator/ 
administrator  to stop/delete/kill all this worthless
bitching.
Rocky Jones wrote:
...
What I do not understand is the persistent  bashing of the  BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation.   We are not the

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:15:17 -0400
From: Kevin Smith kevin.j.smith@comcast.net
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF nigel@ngunn.net
Cc: Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 69F07AEC-DA3D-43E9-B5C9-49DE5AFB8C6D@comcast.net
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Failing that can we at least stop feeding this troll.
Kevin Smith
N3HKQ
On Sep 12, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF nigel@ngunn.net
wrote:
...
It amazes me that this group does not have an owner/moderator/
administrator  to stop/delete/kill all this worthless
bitching.
Rocky Jones wrote:
...
What I do not understand is the persistent  bashing of the  BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation.   We are not the

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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:41:32 -0500
From: Rocky Jones orbitjet@hotmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: rwmcgwier@gmail.com, amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org,
   mlunday@nc.rr.com, 	bruninga@usna.edu, bill@hsmicrowave.com
Cc: rswart1@twcny.rr.com, Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: COL106-W355AA9617CBDC9609F8036D6E50@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
...
We have a free launch just as we have always have.  The russians,  
as is their right when they have command, decided with all the  
equipment modeled people coming up to toss all orlan suits without  
notice to us (and they owed us nothing).
Bob.  I am told by people at JSC that this is not an accurate  
statement.
Robert WB5MZO

Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&am...

Message: 14
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:19:04 +1000
From: "Andrew Rich" vk4tec@tech-software.net
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: "Dale Hershberger" daleh@alaska.net,	"Rocky Jones"
   orbitjet@hotmail.com, "amsat bbs" amsat-bb@amsat.org
Cc: amsat bbs amsat-bb@amsat.org
Message-ID: 670D13D572204184BDA77DF2B146F0A0@home9e3111fa81
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
   reply-type=original
http://php.opensourcecms.com/scripts/show.php?catid=all&cat=All%20Script...
CMS - kewl

Andrew Rich
Airways Technical Officer Grade 4
Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B
Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC
email: vk4tec@tech-software.net
web: www.tech-software.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Hershberger" daleh@alaska.net
To: "Rocky Jones" orbitjet@hotmail.com; "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@amsat.org
...
Cc: "amsat bbs" amsat-bb@amsat.org
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
...
Rocky Jones wrote:
...
...
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off.
What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some,  
anyway)
have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be  
provided by
full-time paid staff.  Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
Mark.
"level of performance".
No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to  
equal
the work through put of a paid employee...
For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool  
can get
into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is  
expected
to have three sermons a week ready to go...
But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in  
the tools
being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into the  
pulpit
in the first place.
It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is  
on...but
for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to meet a  
minimium
level of competency and demonstrate that.
No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak  
links and
then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit more
"sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other  
reason to
make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are well  
understood.
Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so
complicated that they missed their free launch.
I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad
management.
That reality seems to bite some folks
Robert WB5MZO

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
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I really want to reply in good faith.  It is very difficult in  
light of
the nature the tone of the way this thread is going.  I am a member  
of
AMSAT and
proud of it.  The organization is made up of volunteers.....Read
Volunteers!   Things will go wrong.. When we have problems we  look  
for
the weak points and focus
on the corrections that can be made.
What I do not understand is the persistent  bashing of the  BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation.   We are not the
Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF.
If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal
directly with them.
The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then
degrading or demeaning  the volunteer and contributing members of  
AMSAT.
We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good
information to contribute to all.  I just am really disappointed
to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point  
where it
turns others off.
I do not expect a reply to this.  I just wanted to express my opinion
Dale - KL7XJ
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 464

Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 464

Louis McFadin

Bill Ress

Nick Pugh K5QXJ

Roger Kolakowski

Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF

Roger Kolakowski

Rocky Jones

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