Re: Phase IV satellite or GOLF

15 Aug 2022


      Steve that is about what I expected. I had always hoped it could happen again. I guess all the AO-40 equipment - amps, pre-amps, antennas, rotators, rigs, switches, and a-lot of stuff I don't even remember will remain in sealed boxes - a-lot brand new and even more used only a few hours will
remain there until my estate sale... back to my old 40 M dipole like Ed said. You guys take care & 73's.
De WA5QAP
 
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite or GOLF
From: "Edward Maikranz" maikranze@gmail.com
Date: Mon, August 15, 2022 2:07 am
To: jim@beeson.cc
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I cant address any of the technical issues, but maybe the operational side
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of things. One of the things we are able to do with the current fleet is
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start a conversation on one satellite and continue it on another. Say you
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w\are working a guy on CAS-4B, before you reach LOS you can look and see
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what is going to be overhead next. You tell the other station I will catch
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you on the upcoming pass of RS-44 (For example). That can be fun and
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challenging to do. Maybe not as convenient as having a 30 minute rag chew
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on 40 meters but still fun in a different way.
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73,
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Ed
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KG5UN
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EM50
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On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 8:38 PM jim@beeson.cc wrote:
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I have realized the past few days that our AMSAT group has some really
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smart Hams! Thanks very much for the information. I have a few more
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questions. As I said before I would like to have more than a five minute
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QSO. I am not much of a contester, more a rag chewer. But I am afraid, if I
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understand most of you correctly, that is probably not going to happen in
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my life time? I reference K0JM's comments it's not so much the money but
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the regulatory environment that will stop this. I don't see this getting
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any easier in the next year, five years, or ten years. Does anybody else
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see anything different? And throwing in N8FGV's comments about the timing
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of the launch seems like a long shot as well. I spent a ton of money prior
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to AO-40 getting equipment ready to go in high hopes of having an AO-13
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length run with so much more to do! I was terribly excited about this bird
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only to have it vanish before my eyes before I really got started. My last
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question is would a GOLF type satellite have the same obstacles as a Phase
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IV bird? If so I am probably going to have a-lot of satellite ham gear for
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sale real soon. Again thanks for your input.
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WA5QAP
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(licensed in 1966)
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---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
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Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite
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From: "Daniel Schultz" n8fgv@usa.net
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Date: Fri, August 12, 2022 6:57 pm
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To: "AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org
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Hosting our payload on a commercial GEO satellite would likely cost more
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than
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$10 million if the commercial satellite owner is to be fully compensated
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for
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the engineering modifications to their satellite and potential loss of
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transponder revenue from diverting satellite resources to a
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non-productive
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payload over a 15 year design lifetime. Offering a tax break will
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probably not
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make up this difference. You might have better luck seeking hosting on a
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government owned satellite such as the Air Force mission that was
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discussed by
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AMSAT a few years ago, but eventually fell through. This is where
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carefully
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cultivated personal relationships can come in, if you have any such
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friends in
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high places. OSCAR-1 got its launch approved back in 1961 because of a
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few
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highly placed hams in the Pentagon, so keep up with your networking and
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maybe
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it can happen.
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Some orbits are inherently unstable, for example 63 degree Molniya
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orbits will
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reliably decay in a few years. The Late, Great OSCAR-13 provides a prime
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example of this. Their orbital lifetime is heavily sensitive to the time
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of
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launch, if AO-13 was launched a few hours earlier it would still be up
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there,
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a few hours later it would have reentered a couple of years after
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launch. This
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is easy to model in GMAT.
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As a secondary payload, we don't get to choose the launch time, our only
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hope
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would be to use thrusters to make slight post-launch adjustments so the
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satellite reenters not too early (as AO-13 did) and not too late. I have
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been
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trying to figure out how to do this but have not had any results so far.
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If we
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have a dedicated launch all to ourselves we can choose a launch time that
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meets our requirements.
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The NASA Cubesat that was recently grounded was aiming for a GTO launch,
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which
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has been mentioned as a possible target for an AMSAT mission because we
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could
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possibly get one cheap. Analysis of NORAD tracking data shows a lot of
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spent
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rocket bodies that have been in GTO for decades, so this might not be
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the best
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choice for a mission that needs a guaranteed reentry date.
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Another possibility would be to place the satellite directly into the GEO
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graveyard orbit and let it slowly drift around the Earth. There are
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plenty of
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other HEO or Cislunar orbits that are not sensitive to orbital debris
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requirements and may not be commercially attractive but would work OK
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for our
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needs.
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So yes, if we had $10 million in our bank account we could buy our way
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out of
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a lot of problems that only affect poor people who are lacking options.
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73, Dan N8FGV
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------ Original Message ------
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Received: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 12:28:55 PM EDT
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From: Paul Andrews w2hro.fn20@gmail.com
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Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite
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Yes! Find a commercial GEOsat with room to support an amateur payload.
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Leverage commercial economics for launch and platform reliability. The
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commercial operator can donate (tax break) the value of the ham (STEM)
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capability. Maybe ham bands at 10 GHz and above. Simple bent pipe.
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------ Original Message ------
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Received: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:28:21 AM EDT
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From: "Mark Johns, K0JM" k0jm.mark@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Phase IV satellite
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The launch costs, while significant, are beside the point. The biggest
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issue with HEO satellites are the regulatory challenges. AMSAT and
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international partners could build and get ready for launch such a
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satellite within a few years, just as they did with AO-10, AO-13, and
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AO-40. But they would not get a license to put it into orbit in the
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current regulatory environment. The technical and financial challenges
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can be met, but the licensing requirements are killing us.
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Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
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to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
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expressed
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are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
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AMSAT-NA.
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Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at
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View archives of this mailing list at
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jim＠beeson.cc

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