October 2006 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

... Err!, an observation.
by john hackett 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Hello Folks, As we all know (or assumed), AO-7's battery system has been down the tube for a couple of decades. However, this morning I got quite a surprise. I always monitor the old girl before actually *bellowing* into the microphone. As is my want, I was watching both InstantTRACK and NOVA on seperate computers (and before you comment, my keps are! correct and up to date). The satellite came up over Northern Russia at 09:58 UTC on the 45926 orbit and was in complete darkness at that time but just for a laugh I sent a few CQ's on CW (432.150 up 145.941 down) and to my surprise I copied LA2QAA calling CQ - (that's me folks). Thinks ... "This can't be, the batteries are knackered". This instigated careful checks of time (Atomtime Pro), keps & doppler - no doubt - (both InstantTRACK and Nova agreed) - AO-7 was in darkness but I was able to copy my downlink at S3. A few minutes later, when the old girl came into sunlight my signal shot up to S8. Careful checks of my hearing and senility confirmed that both are! functioning correctly. So ... how come I could hear myself when AO-7 was in darkness?. As can be imagined, I will keep tabs on this tomorrow morning. Sensible explanations please written on the back of a clean $100 bill wrapped round a wallbrick and chucked through my window - or - an e-mail to <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> at a pinch, will suffice 73 John.

5 4

Re: S band interference solution
by John Champa 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Bob, You are NEVER going to hear your neighbor's WiFi @ 10 miles! Come on, Bob! I have experienced this near / far phenomenon of which you write many times It is something in the RF environment with which we need to learn to deal. I work in a location where I normally monitor 40 -60 WiFi devices at the same time, yet I manage to get a signal through such nasty terrain. A hand-full of neighbors wouldn't make me completely re-design an OSCAR and drop an entire transponder! You must be one of those pessimist we were writing about earlier. Put the math aside and go out to your front yard and meet those fine WiFi folks! (HI) Vy 73, John Champa - K8OCL Former Executive VP - AMSAT >From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(a)usna.edu> >Reply-To: bruninga(a)usna.edu >To: <AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org> >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: S band interference solution >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 15:28:09 -0400 > > > > These are 100 mW devices...maximum! That means they have > > > to be relatively close to your QTH for you to hear them. > >Two big words there. "Relateively" and "close"... > >The laws of physics trumps all opinions... > >All of these give the SAME power at your antenna: > - A 100mW device at 1 mile > - A 10 W device at 10 miles > - a 1000W device at 100 miles. > >Or this one: > - A 100 mW device at 10 miles > - A 10 Watt device at 100 miles > - A 1000W device at 1000 miles LEO > - A 400 Kw device at 20,000 miles GEO orbit > >Now our birds do not have 400 Kw to downlink at S-band to >overcome >Your neighbor's WIFI at 10 miles away. > >Even if you throw away 30 dB of antenna gain (the neighbor will >not be in you main lobe, this then makes the 400W Satellite >coming in your MAIN beam no stronger than a neighbor at 10 miles >away with a 100mw device coming in the back of your dish. > >Yes, it is only 100 mW, but when it is 20,000 times closer, it >is 400,000,000 times stronger. > >De WB4APR, Bob > >_______________________________________________ >Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

1 0

Solution for Cordless phone QRM
by D Carlisle 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

If you want to avoid interference to the 902MHz, 2.4GHz, and 5.8GHz ham bands when using a cordless phone, then look for a DECT 6.0 model. This was authorized earlier this year by the FCC in the Unlicensed PCS band from 1920-1930 MHz. http://www.dect.org/content.aspx?newsartikel=news15 Even Wal*Wart has them. I saw two different models at the local store. They were specifically made to address the complaints by consumers that the 2.4GHz and 5.8Ghz cordless phones trash their home wireless networks. 73, Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

2 1

Re: Solution for Cordless phone QRM
by J. Moen 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Most home wireless networks use 802.11g or the older 802.11b. Both of these are in the 2.4Ghz band, so moving to a 5.8Ghz cordless phone does solve the interference problem. A few people have purchased equipment using 802.11a. This is on 5.8Ghz but did not become as popular as 802.11b/g. So for most people, replacing their 2.4 cordless phones with 5.8 will do the trick. Of course, microwaves are on 2.4 Ghz also. I solved the microwave problem by getting directional antennas so the 802.11g signals were just too strong to be bothered by the microwave. But it is good to know about the DECT 6.0 1920-1930 Mhz phones. Thanks for the information. Jim - K0ZXU -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [amsat-bb] Solution for Cordless phone QRM From: D Carlisle <w0uhf(a)yahoo.com> Date: Thu, October 05, 2006 11:40 am To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org If you want to avoid interference to the 902MHz, 2.4GHz, and 5.8GHz ham bands when using a cordless phone, then look for a DECT 6.0 model. This was authorized earlier this year by the FCC in the Unlicensed PCS band from 1920-1930 MHz. http://www.dect.org/content.aspx?newsartikel=news15 Even Wal*Wart has them. I saw two different models at the local store. They were specifically made to address the complaints by consumers that the 2.4GHz and 5.8Ghz cordless phones trash their home wireless networks. 73, Dan

1 0

Fwd: Re: S band interference solution
by Nate Duehr 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Begin forwarded message: > From: Nate Duehr <nate(a)natetech.com> > Date: October 5, 2006 12:36:38 PM MDT > To: k8ocl(a)arrl.net > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: S band interference solution > > On Oct 5, 2006, at 11:40 AM, John Champa wrote: >> Nate, >> >> I am happy to report that I get along with my neighbors very well, >> thank you, >> so none of these TVI-type suggestions were any problem whatsoever >> at this QTH. >> >> Have you ever read any texts from the ARRL, etc. on how to manage >> a TVI problem? >> They are not as popular as they once were, but you can still find >> them around. >> >> They will help you in the social skills areas, another big weak >> point for most Hams. >> >> 73, John > > John, > > You completely misread my comments. I do just fine with social > skills and know the neighbors. > > What I *don't* want is to become the neighbor's "tech support" guy > by having a conversation with them about 2.4 interference or > "helping" them with their router. They don't know I can fix their > routers, computers, whatever... and I'd pretty much like to keep it > that way. > > I didn't make any TVI suggestions at all. Not sure where you got > that from. > > I was just (humorously) pointing out that: > > Being forced to deal with interference that's built-into the band- > plan given us by the FCC if 2.4 is flown brings added complexity > and time necessary that many hams will simply avoid. Not because > the technical details of hunting down low-power interference > sources is difficult, but because you have to go pester the > neighbors, ultimately leading to a number of other complex problems > completely unrelated to ham radio. > > For someone who just wants to get on and operate, finding out they > have to first hunt down local interference in the neighborhood will > simply mean they don't operate at all. > > I'm not the "just want to operate" type, but I certainly don't want > to involve myself in the nightmare that is known as my neighbor's > home computers. I do computers and networking and > telecommunications for a living -- fixing someone's (permanently) > broken Windows box, isn't my idea of fun, interesting, or even > slightly amusing anymore. Unless someone wants to pay me my usual > overtime rate for it. > > Walking next door to futz with the neighbor's 802.11 devices opens > me up to that. > > Currently I can "hear" six 802.11 devices from my back porch in a > suburban area without a gain antenna, using the built-in antenna on > my laptop. And those are the ones that are broadcasting an SSID, > and of course this doesn't include cordless phones. 900 MHz ham > is similarly trashed by various unlicensed "household electronic > stuff" I'm not going to bother hunting down. > > It's not getting any better where I live, and I'm in Denver. And > in places where housing is more compact... it must be far worse by > now. > > Nate WY0X > > -- > Nate Duehr > nate(a)natetech.com > > > -- Nate Duehr wy0x(a)mac.com

1 0

HITSAT 1812 UTC
by Mike Rupprecht 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

AOS 1812 UTC Oct 05 (JN49lr) Hit2 .....105634 Hit3 344d50494f4a494d Hit4 c1d2d2e2 Hit1 jr8yjt Hit2 a0603145127 Hit3 554a51494f4b4a4e Hit4 ...1d1e2 LOS 1819 UTC used OBJECT F (NORAD #29484)

1 0

Re: S band interference solution
by John Champa 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Nate, I am happy to report that I get along with my neighbors very well, thank you, so none of these TVI-type suggestions were any problem whatsoever at this QTH. Have you ever read any texts from the ARRL, etc. on how to manage a TVI problem? They are not as popular as they once were, but you can still find them around. They will help you in the social skills areas, another big weak point for most Hams. 73, John >From: Nate Duehr <nate(a)natetech.com> >To: AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: S band interference solution >Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 10:39:00 -0600 > >John Champa wrote: > > I really do get bored reading about all these threats to Mode S from >WiFi, > > etc. > > > > NOT! > > > > These are 100 mW devices...maximum! That means they have to be >relatively > > close to your QTH for you to hear them. > >I've got one here that will happily do 250mW all day long... not that I >run it that way. All it took was some alternate firmware to bypass the >normal firmware's limits. However, 28mW is plenty to cover my house. > > > 1. Pick up your old laptop, or borrow one. > > 2. Plug in a Linksys wireless PC card from Radio Shack. > > 3. Download the free NetStumbler shareware. > > 4. Find the source of the Wifi QRM. > >4a. Explain to the nice Sheriff's deputy why you're walking around the >neighborhood and into neighbor's yards with a laptop. > >4b. Call your wife and ask her to come pick you up from jail. Explain >to wife on the way home that you're not a "terrorist" as the Sheriff's >summons for your later court date indicates. > > > 5. Knock on his door and ask him to change his AP to a channel 7 - 11 > > (outside the Ham Band) > >5a. Listen to 1/2 hour tirade about how this guy bought the thing at the >local Best Buy and they never told him about the ham band, and how he >saw a UFO fly past your tower one night. > >5b. Another 15-30 minutes talking about "What's that tower for, anyway?" > >5c. Spent an hour in his basement with him, helping him click on simple >web interfaces after you reset his router to a default password and have >to set it up from scratch because he's forgotten his password... which >turns out to be "beerrules" and is found on a Post-It note on the bottom >of the router AFTER you've already reset it to factory defaults. > > > 6. Reason: He's interfering with a licensed radio service (be nice!). > >6a. If you were dumb enough to point this out to Joe Sixpack, expect >another 1/2 hour explaining Part 15. If you're lucky, Joe will offer >you a beer at this point. > >6b. If you're *REAL* lucky he might be interested in ham radio. (This >is about the only good that can come of this.) Spend another hour today >and many more Elmering. (Yay!) > > > 7. Return to your radio room and operate Mode S until LOS. > >7a. The satellite passed over long ago and it's time for bed anyway. > >7b. Alternatively Joe may have you "help me fix my computer while you're >here", and you'll spend at least one weekend a month at the neighbor's >house or another neighbor's house (once word gets around) dealing with >their computer problems, virii, and other technical duties now that >you're the "friendly computer guy in the big white house over there!" > > > This is child's play guys! These are consumer grade wireless devices, >not > > super computers. > > Fixing such local QRM issues is easier than solving the old fashioned >TVI > > problems. > >No. The average public at least understood how their TV worked, or at >least how to adjust a pair of rabbit ears. WiFi is "deep voodoo black >magic" to the vast majority of the population in most neighborhoods >today. They think they paid for a system that works perfectly, 100% of >the time and they have their own "channel". Some have heard enough to >turn on the WEP encryption in their routers (crackable, easily). > >(Heck I've seen Engineers where I work stare and boggle at a simple >Radio Frequency Spectrum chart, like the one you can download and print >out from the NTIA. They always ask: "So where's my cell phone on here?") > > > The most troublesome devices I have found , even to WiFi, are 2.4 GHz > > cordless phones. > > In that case the only solution I have found is to go next door and offer >to > > buy him a replacement > > cordless phone of any type he would like EXCEPT one on 2.4 GHz. That is >a > > cheap > > solution. They're usually not more than $79.95 while you probably have > > multiple Ks of $ > > invested in your satellite ground station. > >Yeah - move 'em up to 5.8 GHz! Oh... wait... > >Maybe down to 900 MHz... Oh, oops... some of us are there too... hmmmm... > > > For a bunch of supposedly sophisticated wireless guys, you sure don't >know > > beans about > > consumer grade wireless devices. That includes our wonderfully >dedicated > > but pessimistic AMSAT satellite engineers! > >I know plenty about them and know I'll end up the neighborhood tech >support guy for them if I even THINK about talking to a neighbor about >them. That and their utterly broken Windows 98 machines they THINK they >need. Thanks to mass marketing... "Your child will be smarter if you >buy them our operating system!" (No, it has nothing to do with genetics >or the fact there isn't a single book in the house!) > > > Now get on with the work, and get those birds into orbit! (HI). > >Ditto on that, at least! :-) > > > Vy 73, > > John Champa, K8OCL > > AMSAT Life Member 1069 > >Nate WY0X >_______________________________________________ >Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

1 0

HITSAT 1638 UTC
by Mike Rupprecht 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

AOS 1638 UTC Oct 05 (JN49lr) Hit1 jr8yjt Hit2 a0601365038 Hit3 374d524c504a484c Hit4 c1d1d1b8 Hit1 jr8yjt Hit2 a0601404726 Hit3 0e4d504b4e4b4a4a Hit4 c1d2d2e2 Hit1 jr8yjt LOS 1647 UTC used OBJECT F (NORAD #29484) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Date: Oct, 06 Time: 01:40:47 JST HIT2 a0601404726 HIT3 0e4d504b4e4b4a4a HIT4 c1d2d2e2 Temp +X face : 181,310 °C Temp -X face : 29,975 °C Temp +Y face : 22,769 °C Temp -Y face : 34,779 °C Temp +Z face : 27,573 °C Temp -Z face : 34,779 °C Temp Transceiver: 37,181 °C Temp Battery : 37,181 °C Prim. Battery : 7,539 V Sec. Battery : 8,203 V 5 Volts : 4,974 V 5.5 Volts : 5,353 V RSSI : 0,742 V 73, Mike DK3WN

1 0

HITSAT 1509 UTC
by Mike Rupprecht 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

AOS 1509 UTC Oct 05 (JN49lr) Hit2 a060006333c Hit3 3c4b52484e4b4a4d Hit4 c1d2d1e2 LOS 1511 UTC used OBJECT F (NORAD #29484) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Date: Oct, 06 Time: 00:06:33 JST HIT2 a060006333c HIT3 3c4b52484e4b4a4d HIT4 c1d2d1e2 Temp +X face : 70,811 °C Temp -X face : 34,779 °C Temp +Y face : 17,964 °C Temp -Y face : 41,986 °C Temp +Z face : 27,573 °C Temp -Z face : 34,779 °C Temp Transceiver: 37,181 °C Temp Battery : 29,975 °C Prim. Battery : 7,539 V Sec. Battery : 8,203 V 5 Volts : 4,951 V 5.5 Volts : 5,353 V RSSI : 1,172 V 73, Mike DK3WN

1 0

Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 1, Issue 171
by Reicher, James 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

John, If the bird is in range and it's daylight at your location, then the satellite is also in daylight. If any part of it's footprint is in daylight, the satellite is sunlit. I would assume that at 11:58 your local time (9:58 UTC), that you are experiencing daylight. 73 de N8AU, Jim in Raymore, MO Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:42:49 +0200 From: "john hackett" <la2qaa(a)hotmail.com> Subject: [amsat-bb] ... Err!, an observation. To: Amsat-bb(a)amsat.org Cc: jking(a)eclipticenterprises.com, allan_gm1sxx(a)hotmail.com, n1did(a)amsat.org, k3szh(a)netzero.net, eu-amsat(a)yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <BAY105-F25F9CF026C72E2230A562C81120(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello Folks, As we all know (or assumed), AO-7's battery system has been down the tube for a couple of decades. However, this morning I got quite a surprise. I always monitor the old girl before actually *bellowing* into the microphone. As is my want, I was watching both InstantTRACK and NOVA on seperate computers (and before you comment, my keps are! correct and up to date). The satellite came up over Northern Russia at 09:58 UTC on the 45926 orbit and was in complete darkness at that time but just for a laugh I sent a few CQ's on CW (432.150 up 145.941 down) and to my surprise I copied LA2QAA calling CQ - (that's me folks). Thinks ... "This can't be, the batteries are knackered". This instigated careful checks of time (Atomtime Pro), keps & doppler - no doubt - (both InstantTRACK and Nova agreed) - AO-7 was in darkness but I was able to copy my downlink at S3. A few minutes later, when the old girl came into sunlight my signal shot up to S8. Careful checks of my hearing and senility confirmed that both are! functioning correctly. So ... how come I could hear myself when AO-7 was in darkness?. As can be imagined, I will keep tabs on this tomorrow morning. Sensible explanations please written on the back of a clean $100 bill wrapped round a wallbrick and chucked through my window - or - an e-mail to <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> at a pinch, will suffice 73 John. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Sent via amsat-bb(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 1, Issue 171 ****************************************

1 0