AMSAT-BB May 2008

212 participants
446 discussions

Call for Papers--2007 ARRL/TAPR Digital Communications Conference
by Ford, Steve, WB8IMY 16 Jul '12

16 Jul '12

Technical papers are solicited for presentation at the 26th Annual ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference to be held September 28-30, 2007 in Hartford, Connecticut. These papers will also be published in the Conference Proceedings (you do NOT need to attend the conference to have your paper included in the Proceedings). The submission deadline is July 31, 2007. Please send papers to: Maty Weinberg ARRL 225 Main St Newington, CT 06111 or you can make your submission via e-mail to: maty(a)arrl.org Papers will be published exactly as submitted and authors will retain all rights. 73 . . . Steve, WB8IMY ARRL

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AO-16 Update and brief mode change
by Mark L. Hammond 02 Sep '08

02 Sep '08

Hello All, AO-16 has been in its "voice mode" continuously for nearly a month now. Many thanks to all the users of this "new" bird! It is time to pause voice operations long to receive some MBL telemetry (limited as it is, it's all we have). Around 0920 UTC on 17FEB08 I plan to return AO-16 to digital mode in order to receive some telemetry. If all goes as planned, it should be back to "voice mode" during the same pass. If not, I'll try to catch it on the 1056 UTC pass. Most of you will be asleep, so I don't think it will interfere with too many contacts. Looking to the future, we can see that after several months of continuous illumination, AO-16 will begin to experience eclipse periods at the end of March. The eclipse periods will increase and extend through the summer. This may impact AO-16's power budget such that the transmitter output will have to be reduced in order to protect its 18 year old batteries. We'll know more after the eclipse periods begin in late March and early April. In the meanwhile, enjoy AO-16 and her strong signals! 73 on behalf of the command team, Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]

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Santa docks at the ISS
by Ed Tump 25 Aug '08

25 Aug '08

Happy holidays! I got a kick out of this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Di8mZLu0VE <http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Di8mZLu0VE&feature=PlayList&p=26B9B2ACB4AAC849& index=7> &feature=PlayList&p=26B9B2ACB4AAC849&index=7 Maybe he dropped off some more amateur radio gifts. 73, Ed KC9GWK Grid EN52 AmSat Member

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JUBILEE and other frustrations
by pcalvi＠bluewin.ch 18 Jun '08

18 Jun '08

Honestly, if somebody has put a 45 kg amateur satellite into a 1,500 km plus orbit and has NOT included a transponder, then this hobby has really become a joke! What's the weight of a transponder module? And the cost? What's the problem in giving us something more like a "real" satellite? (and this is said with enormous love and affection for the old girl - which I use daily - and plenty of respect for HamSat). Yes - I am quite angry. We are kept in complete darkness as to real progress and launch opportunities for P3E - something I have repeatedly and completely uselessly complained about several times on this BB. I find this absolutely incredible. I have repeatedly said that I have the utmost respect for the work of AMSAT DL and I am quite keen to support it financially, bit I cannot see any reason for this total blackout on communication, which has been going on since the beginning of the project. I appreciate that AMSAT DL themselves must be quite uncertain, but the DO TELL US, for God's sake! Keep us informed on negotiations, progress, prospects. That fuels enthusiasm, attracts resources and somewhat cures frustration. We live on tiny bits of information - mostly speculations and rumours. How is this possible? And now, talking about frustration, somebody invest considerable resources to put a new bird in orbit and do not include a transponder? Tell me that's not true, PLEASE. 73. Piero ________________________ Piero Calvi-Parisetti MM0TWX currently also HB9DSU for music, Ham Radio and more visit http://www.chmusiq.com/ham

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Re: DirecWav satellite internet useful?
by Greg D. 18 Jun '08

18 Jun '08

Hi all, Well, it's been saved from the dumpster, at least for now. But, I kind of don't care much about the dish itself - it's probably a bit big /heavy for my Az/El rotor setup, though it's hard to tell with the huge steel support mount still attached. I nearly wrenched my back out carrying it over to my side yard this morning. (I think the Advil is wearing off... oow) But, back to the pre-amp and other electronics pieces... I found a reference to the Hughes DirecWay (not wav) service on the Web. Looks like the stuff runs in the Ku Band (11-14.5 ghz, according to Wikipedia), and has a 0.5-2 watt transmitter, depending on model. Sounds like it's possibly a good bit out of band for P3E needs, and I'm not much good with microwave hacking. Am I better off taking another two pills and putting it back on the pile, or is there a reasonable chance that I can do some simple (think "Drake") modifications to get it to work? Greg KO6TH ________________________________ > From: w7lrd(a)comcast.net > To: ko6th_greg(a)hotmail.com; kc6uqh(a)cox.net; amsat-bb(a)amsat.org > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: DirecWav satellite internet useful? > Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 17:14:01 +0000 > > Greg- They seem to be an off center feed antenna, similar to the old primestar dish of which I have been successfully using for several years. If it's free you can't beat the price. > 73 Bob W7LRD > > -- > "if this were easy, everyone would be doing it" > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Greg D." > >> >> Hi Art, >> >> The DirectWav is an Internet link - data, not TV - but good point about LO >> stability being an unknown. >> >> But, my base question was whether any of the pieces can be used, and it sounds >> like it's worth saving. Thanks! >> >> Greg KO6TH >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> From: kc6uqh(a)cox.net >>> To: ko6th_greg(a)hotmail.com; amsat-bb(a)amsat.org >>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DirecWav satellite internet useful? >>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:20:55 -0700 >>> >>> Greg, >>> These dishes are used on 10 GHz and lower frequencies. Designed to operate >>> in Ku Band ~12 GHz they will give ~30 dBof gain. The LNB and feed can be >>> used , at least the LNA section. As the intended use is television the LO is >>> not stable enough for Amateur Satellite work. >>> >>> Art, >>> KC6UQH >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Greg D." >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:23 PM >>> Subject: [amsat-bb] DirecWav satellite internet useful? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> My neighbor appears to be tossing their Hughes "DirecWav" satellite internet >>> dish and associated dish-mounted electronics. By any stroke of luck, is >>> this stuff reasonably convertable for use with any of the the proposed P3E >>> up or downlinks? I have no idea what frequency it runs. It appears to have >>> both transmit and receive capabilities (based on the warnings posted). >>> There are no model numbers tha t I can find on the electronics. >>> >>> I've got my AO-40 S-band receive setup, but nothing for the higher bands. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Greg KO6TH >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> E-mail for the greater good. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. >>> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ GreaterGood >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. >> http://im.live.com /Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld

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Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
by i8cvs 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(a)usna.edu> To: <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations > > There seems to be a proliferation of satellites > > using the Amateur bands as cheap down links, > > and using Radio Amateurs as a cheap way of > > collecting their data. It is MY personal belief > > that a satellite should only use our hard-earned > > and much coveted frequencies if they REALLY do > > carry an Amateur Radio payload... I.E. > > a Transponder! > > While I too like to see transponders, I do not like to see all > the negativizim, hate and rabble-rousing against those who > actually get something into space. The self-richeous nay-saying > comments are about as practical as these: > > "Those HF contesters should not be using the Amateur Bands, they > should be passing useful communications or traffic!" > > "Those Traffic passers are not real amateur operators, because > they will not respond with QSL's!" > > "Those old fud rag chewers on HF think they own the frequency. > They should let others use the frequency for more useful > communications" > > "Those FM commuters are just wasting air time, saying the same > old thing every day. Why don't they just use a cell phone!" > > "Those AM guys are just wasting 6 KHz of spectrum, they should > be made illegal on the amateur bands" > > "Who wants to look at all those SSTV pictures, Its just the > same old post-card! They should not be using 3 KHz of bandwidth > for such stupid applications"... > > "Those Winlink guys are killing amateur radio by turning the > bands into an automatic communications system." > > "Those Echolink and IRLP links are bad for ham radio. Why don't > they just use HF or a phone if they want to talk to someone far > away." > > "Those Radio control Airplanes operating on the Amateur band > should never be there, they are not communications". > > "Those experimental Balloons just transmit pictures and > telemetry, without a transponder, they have no purpose in > Amateur Radio" > > And on and on... > > Face, it.. Ham radio is as rich in applications as there are > innovative and resourceful people. If you want something done, > then go do it. If you don't like what others are doing with > their hobby, then get out of the way. > > Public negativizim and constant complaining never accomplishes > anything except darken our collective hobby. Save that for the > politicians who are supposed to respond to their constituents. > For a hobby that is just the collective "us" with each licensed > individual having the same equal opportunities as everyone else, > complaining about what others do is just pointless. > > Bob, WB4APR > Hi Bob, WB4APR You cannot get out of the way those Amateur Radio users actually requesting OSCAR's Satellites with on board transponders because the Amateur Satellite Service started when in 1972 OSCAR-6 was launched and thousand's of the above maltreated and by you offended HF users decided to abandone the Amateur Service to enter into a more bright and promising Amateur Satellite Service. The above thousand's HF users invested worldwide a lot of money and a lot of efforts to convert their HF stations into VHF/UHF/SHF Satellite Stations with the purpose to get a more communication efficiency against the problems due of propagation using short waves. Without the above prerequisite the Amateur Satellite Service never would had spring up. Read please this "Brief History" written into page-1 of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR-13 Operations and Technical Handbook 1989 "Amateur radio satellites have gone through three phases; phase 1: experimentation to find the possible; phase 2: long life, low orbit satellites to gain experience; and phase 3: high altitude orbits with complex transponding and control systems. Phase 1 started when OSCAR-1 was launched on 12 December 1961 and phase 2 was led by OSCAR-6 in October 1972. Amsat's first attemp for phase 3 (the satellite known only as phase 3A ) failed when the experimental Ariane rocked plunged into the South Atlantic in May 1980 . Amsat second attemp for phase 3 partially succeeded in June 1993 when OSCAR-10 was released into space . The world's radio amateurs after more than 10 years of low orbit satellites and associated short visibility periods, at last tasted Amsat's policy of equivalence to a permantly open 14 MHz band with practically world wide communications. OSCAR stands for Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio and a satellite is a package equipped with solar cells, batteries, receivers, and transmitters, aerials and control electronics. The batteries are charged by the solar cells whenever the satellite is in sunlight. Signal received in part of one amateur band are retransmitted in part of another amateur band. Unlike terrestrial, single frequency, analog repeaters ,the satellite relay system (called a transponder ) will translate linearly any type of narrow-band signal such as CW, SSB, RTTY, NBFM, or AM although only the first four are recommended, being power-efficient and RF low duty cycle -------------------- Bob, This is why the above thousands Satellite Experimenter's and User's mostly coming from the HF are actually waiting for P3-E and her transponders. Read again please: ".................when OSCAR-10 was released into space . The world's radio amateurs after more than 10 years of low orbit satellites and associated short visibility periods, at last tasted Amsat's policy of equivalence to a permanently open 14 MHz band with practically world wide communications." I hope that the original unchanged AMSAT's policy will be now clear for you. 73" de i8CVS Domenico Past President AMSAT-Italia

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Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
by Edward Cole 01 Jun '08

01 Jun '08

Without getting into the issue too much. I would remind the project managers that their constituency (and contributors or potenitial contributors) rely on periodic progress reports on developing satellite projects. This complaint is not new to amsat-bb (we heard it for AO-40), so it should not be news to project managers. We all realize that the builders and creators are working hard and puting in many volunteer hours, but for the greater satellite community to keep interested and supporting they need to hear what is happening (fairly frequently). That does take some time and effort away from direct project work but is very neccessary for a volunteer run organization. When looking for news on P3E I can find little on-line that is recent (most dates two years old), or is only in german language (which I do not read/speak). Even if things are at a full standstill the supporting membership is owed an occassional update. That may generate a few "grousing remarks" from a few but that goes with the task. Amsat Journal does attempt this to a degree, but I think the summary remarks should be given either on Amsat-bb or ANS which is available to all. Regular news tells the general satellite community that the leadership cares about their support. It would be good if P3E were to share on Amsat-bb or at least post more regular reports to Amsat-DL website. As an Amsat-NA field op I get questions that I am not able to answer...that should not happen very often. Certainly the basic stuff like how are the new satellite projects coming and when can we expect them to be launched. Since AO-10/13 there has been a long wait for the next full HEO sat. AO-40 did not last long enough and it has been a few years since then! A lot of folks are trying to be patient and need some words to help them keep the faith. ***************************************************** 73, Ed - KL7UW BP40iq, 6m - 3cm 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xp20, 185w http://www.kl7uw.com AK VHF-Up Group NA Rep. for DUBUS: dubususa(a)hotmail.com *****************************************************

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Re: JUBILEE and other frustrations,
by Wayne Estes 01 Jun '08

01 Jun '08

Joe K7ZT wrote: Is it too much to ask for just a little bit of accountability for projects that exist as a result of public donations? If any organization can't do that then they shouldn't solicit donations. It is really a very simple concept. One shouldn't get their head snapped off just for asking the question about the status of a given satellite project! Wayne W9AE replies: AMSAT is a volunteer organization. Are you volunteering to fix this accountability problem? Wayne Estes W9AE Oakland, Oregon, USA, CN83ik AMSAT Area Coordinator

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New satellies / Shuttle question
by G0MRF＠aol.com 31 May '08

31 May '08

Hi Edward / group. Most current construction or feasility study is centered on P3E / Eagle / Intelsat /HEO where launch opportunities are rare and costs are high. Perhaps we should look at this problem from another viewpoint. Start with what launch opportunities AMSAT can afford and then retake the technology initative and investigate what minaturised payloads can we launch for that price? For example. Imagine a 2 or 3U cubesat type structure, or even one half the size of AO-51 on last weeks Russian launch to 1500km. With payloads reduced to transponders and a basic onboard computer and an Electrical Power System, it would be feasable to put RF comms equipment into a decent orbit on 29MHz 145MHz 435MHz with an RX on 1269. For bands higher than 13cm doppler is a problem and path loss is quite high. It may not be possible to provide the necessary DC power for transmitters in a small structure. Talking of DC power, the number of cubesats that fail due to power problems is huge. The answer is to get inventive with deployable solar arrays. With the engineering excellence AMSAT possesses it should not be impossible to arrange a structure where the entire outer layer contains extra solar cells that are deployed after seperation from the launcher. Imagine a 3U cube which in orbit becomes a 3U box of electronics covered in cells, with an extended outer 3U shell that deploys forming a 6U structure producing nearly double the DC power. The 6U structure also makes antenna design easier For a slightly more risky idea.....small satellite propulsion. Again, perhaps 3U cube, with the last section comprising a small motor. A single burn unit could provide a really nice elliptical LEO orbit, perhaps 680km to 2000km. Wouldn't that be interesting. I notice that there is an Austrian university team who have developed a cubesat sized ion propulsion system asking if anyone would like to try it. So, while this may initially seem a 'wild idea' it is based on technology that is very nearly a reality. Worth investigating? David G0MRF In a message dated 30/05/2008 23:22:37 GMT Standard Time, vk3jed(a)gmail.com writes: At 12:15 AM 5/31/2008, Edward Cole wrote: >Once you total the costs it may actually be cheaper to build a new >satellite and launch it! >Back the effort for P3E and Eagle/P4. That too, yes, a new bird would be the easiest approach indeed. Still, as I said, it was interesting contemplating how such a recovery might be achieved with today's technology. :) 73 de VK3JED

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My first satellite contact
by Piyumi Perera 31 May '08

31 May '08

Hi to the BB, My name is Piyumi Perera and I am a 10 year old YL living in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Today I was so excited because I made my first satellite contact on AO-51 at 00:52 UTC. It was an even more special contact for me as the station was from Alaska, KL7XJ. I used an Icom IC-W32A handheld at 5 watts with an Arrow antenna. I thank KL7XJ for making my first satellite contact possible. It was a lot of fun, and hope to make more satellite contacts in the future. 73, Piyumi Perera VE4WPL - EN19

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AMSAT-BB May 2008