September 2006 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

[Fwd: S-band on Eagle]
by Jim Sanford 09 Sep '06

09 Sep '06

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: S-band on Eagle Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:40:37 -0400 From: Jim Sanford <wb4gcs(a)amsat.org> To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org Ladies and gentlemen: I have been reading the comments regarding the Eagle S-band downlink decision. I herewith respond to some. All along, the Eagle project has put a premium on hard science, rigorous peer review, and dispassionate analysis. All along we knew there might or would be some changes to what we've been planning. With several other issues on the move or decided, we took a few days in late June to hammer out, based on science, the transponder situation. We did multiple, independent link analyses, and all came to the same conclusion. We validated interference predictions with measurements that have been taken. The conclusion is that S-band is marginally useful as a downlink today (unusable in many locations), and by the time Eagle is launched, and through it's lifetime, will be unusable. Personally, I do not like this decision. I have S-band equipment that I was looking forward to using. Personally, I can live with this decision, and defend it to myself, let alone anyone else, because I am convinced that it is technically sound. As one of you commented this evening, AO-40 wasn't exactly a rock crusher on S-band. It worked, and adequately, at least on CW, but was not great. As I reflect on my personal AO-40 experiences, I now understand that there are 2 reasons for my disappointment. Local noise was one, and transponder distortion was another -- the latter will be corrected by SDX. S-band on AO-40, by necessity not choice, got many of us out of our comfort zones and convinced us that microwaves really aren't that hard. Let's enter the realm of S up and C down with that same realization. REMEMBER THAT AMSAT IS DEVELOPING THE GROUND STATION ALONG WITH THE SPACE SEGMENT. You will not be left on your own to develop ground equipment. You will not be asked to mortgage your house; affordability by the masses is a key component of the design for the entire system. Comparison with AO-51 is an "apples and oranges" thing. The path losses are much different. FM is very unlike CW/SSB or wideband digital modes. Remember that a goal of the Eagle system is that everything is on all the time. No more matrix switches, no more schedules. We need up and downlinks to be useful throughout the entire orbit. Why did we "regress" to U/V? For one reason, many of you asked for it, and some of us worked hard to somehow incorporate that capability in response to member's desires. The foot in the door was the utility of a V-band beacon in case everything else goes sour. The forcing function was as follows. A goal of Eagle has always been some kind of hand-held or jump bag portable ground station capability for entry into the emergency area while the tsunami waters are receeding and the hurricane winds are down to gale force. Many of us thought we could take advantage of the gain in small antennas to do this on the microwaves. Rigorous link analysis led us to the conclusion that the best place to do this is U/V -- both from a RF/DC power perspective, and from a link standpoint. This leads to the digital and "traditiona"l transponder package for U/V, implemented in SDX. Why not also include a (switchable) S-band downlink in parallel with the V-band? Remember, no switches. Also, we run into an antenna space problem. We've already increased the size of the spacecraft from where we started, and for many reasons, do NOT want to build something as large as AO-40. A couple of you have commented this evening that perusing EaglePedia has not revealed the details of the decisions. That is because, while Bob McGwier (N4HY) and I have been working on the report of the meeting, it is not public. We've been working hard on it since June, in and around other AMSAT, ham radio, and life events. Shortly after I push send on this message, I'll begin my final look at that document prior to public release. Before I go spend time with the spousal unit TONIGHT, I will finish it and publish it. I will send an announcement on the amsat-bb that it is public. To read the report, go to the EaglePedia main page, and select project index. From there, select Team and Meetings, and there will be several options, not all public. The San Diego meeting minutes will be obvious and public. Several of you have commented, "If S-band is unusable, why is it flying on P3E?" Fair question, but I can't answer for AMSAT-DL. I DO know that the P3E system design is considerably older and farther along than Eagle. Eagle design decisions were made based on the best information in June of 2006. Aspects of this discussion have been worthy of /dev/null. More aspects of this discussion have raised valid points and reasonable questions, deserving of response, which is why I've been composing this note for the last four hours or so. A few have raised the old allegation of the builders doing what they want, without regard to users needs. This is not true. While the desire to advance the state of the art (part of amateur radio's justification for existence and allocation of valuable spectrum) leads to enthusiasm and study of potentially useful new techniques, this desire had no impact on our analysis-based decisions. We started with requirements and services, and explored what would deliver. I thank all of you for your interest and support. Your Eagle team is working hard to develop a system that will serve our needs, as well as advance the state of the art. As promised, we are making decisions based on sound, peer-reviewed science, not anybody's opinions or desires. Please read the report, study the spreadsheets, download the excel file and play with it. If you can, make your own measurements and put those numbers into the spreadsheet. I think you'll understand how these decisions were reached. After contemplating the report, send me your questions. I'll either respond or forward to he who can best respond. Another fundamental tenet of the Eagle project is openness, so you have a right to a response to a rational question. Please recognize that we're volunteers too, and subject to the realities of day jobs, families, and a real life. Response may not be instantaneous. Thanks again and very 73, Jim James A. Sanford, PE Eagle Project Manager wb4gcs(a)amsat.org

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S-Band and Eagle -- User Inputs to the Design Process
by Bruce Rahn 09 Sep '06

09 Sep '06

I've been following the thread regarding the decision to drop S-Band downlink capabilities from Eagle with great interest. As usual, the factions are clearly falling into two groups--the "techies" and the "user community". However, before getting into my discussion on these two groups, I'd like to share a little research I did on peer reviewed work which has been done regarding an S-Band spectrum survey. I ran across an interesting paper titled "Measurements of Man-Made Spectrum Noise Floor" (NASA/CR-2004-213551 November 2004) based on work sponsored by NASA and the Department of Transportation and may be found at http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/smse00205-novat… Of interest to AMSAT members is Section 2, "L, S, and ISM Bands Survey". This section is an expanded version of the paper titled "L and S Bands Spectrum Survey in the San Francisco Bay Area" presented at the IEEE PLANS 2004 conference and may be found at http://waas.stanford.edu/~wwu/papers/gps/PDF/DoIEEEPLANS04.pdf I encourage all interested parties to download and review these two documents! This is peer reviewed science--not casual observations or opinions. The papers support the arguments presented by the Eagle team that the S-Band noise floor is 14 to 29 dB higher than thermal noise due to all the terrestrial emitters operating in this spectrum. However, it is very noteworthy, and must be pointed out, that all of these measurements were done with antenna systems pointed at the horizon! This forced me to ask the question of what does the spectrum look like at 5, 10, 15, 30 etc. degrees above the horizon? More on this later. In a recent email, Dr. Clark encourages folks to make spectrum surveys. Conceptually, this is a wonderful idea, but I seriously doubt many of us have the resources at hand to duplicate the measurement set up described in the above references. Without some form of a standardized measurement system the results obtained by "amateur observers" really do not hold water! It's imperative to have a calibrated measurement system along with a uniform methodology of taking measurements for them to have any true meaning. Otherwise we are back to subjective interpretation of the results. In another recent email to this list, Dr. McGwier provided us an EaglePedia link to the meeting minutes of the San Diego meeting. Thanks for this information Bob...it may not be ready for prime time, but it sure was interesting! It is with concern I noted that among the list of attendees, they were all "techies". Not a single name stuck out as a representative of the "USER community". This is sad! Years ago Boeing started bringing aircraft users into the design process by having them attend and actively participate in design reviews. As a result, Boeing has produced better aircraft which have received much higher marks from the users because their concerns were addressed during the design process. Google something to the effect of 'user involvement in the design process' and you will find a wealth of information on how to accomplish this as well as how successful it has been to countless concerns in addition to Boeing. From the outcry of AMSAT satellite users on this list, one can clearly see that many feel they are being ignored. And while I haven't been active on a bird in over 10 years, I have to concur with their feelings. EaglePedia is a wonderful idea, those involved in it are to be commended, but sadly, it provides information to the users AFTER the decisions have been made. AMSAT leaders...now is the time to actively bring users into the design process. There are multiple voices out there with good input waiting to be heard! It is too late after the "techie" decisions have been made. Back to the spectrum survey and the fact data was only measured at the horizon. Wouldn't it be interesting to have data at other elevation cuts? Perhaps we would find that the noise level is acceptable 60 to 75 percent of the time (this is a pure assumption for the sake of discussion). Would the user community be happy with this vs. horizon to horizon coverage? Would it be acceptable to the user community to employ a directional antenna to achieve this coverage? Given a trade-off between a whole new microwave station vs. antenna/tracking improvements, which way would the users want to go? You have to involve the users to get the answers! And how about this...how about adaptive antennas and null steering at the ground station to deal with this noise problem? 15 plus years ago when I looked at this it was out of the question in terms of cost for the average ham to implement. But oh how technology has changed with time. Give me a seven element S-Band array with a little hardware and software and I stand a good chance of nulling out six sources of terrestrial interference. Enough? Who knows...but without an S-Band downlink few will have the inclination to explore this fascinating area of technology at the ham radio level! Are we throwing out the baby with the bath water by ruling S-Band out on Eagle? I strongly think so. We all are subjected to interference in one form or another...be it from your neighbor's cordless phone to power line interference to junk transmitters in the commercial sector. There are solutions...not always easy ones, but there are solutions. You never find them unless you try. In closing, AMSAT has made some wonderful steps forward with EaglePedia but the organization needs to take this one step further. You have to actively involve the user community in the design process by including them in design reviews in real-time, not after the fact. Officers, board of directors, and AMSAT members...ask yourself one simply question and answer it please...why does AMSAT have such a low retention rate of members? I personally believe it is because the membership in general feels they have no say in matters and their voices are not heard. You want more satellites (numbers and performance) you have to grow the membership base. A vital step is in membership RETENTION! Listen to the members...they might stick around for decades vs. a year or two. Regards -- Bruce -- Bruce Rahn Wisdom has two parts: 1. having a lot to say; and 2. not saying it!

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Remembering the days of AO-40.
by GregWycoff 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

Remembering the days of AO-40. AO-40 had many ups and down as we all know, but S-band dwnlink did prove to be a life jacket for AO-40, and worked out great, many hams arond the world proved that you did not need a large dish to access the satellite's dwnlink provided the squint angle was below 20 degrees. remember the S1 tx'er I only had 33 contacts on that band but man did it kick some butt, on S2 tx'er I had 568 contacts, 40+ country's worked, hours of qso's, remember the many AO-40 beacon plus 20 nets, thanks to Dave WB6LLO no problems their. if AMSAT is going to take survey's of what the membership wants then don't do something different, this is how you loose members and funding, I like many others have already sent hundreds of dollars to the project eagle based on what your "AMSAT" survey had showed thinking that was the direction it would take. tell me if I'm wrong, but did the survey not show members want HEO's over LEO's and mode's preffered most was Mode-B and mode-S if it takes longer to come up with a design that will work based on what the members want so be it, I for one don't care if we don't have coverage 24/7 but we have a at least one HEO in orbit all times. Greg N0ZHE

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FS: Gulf Alpha EasySat Dual Band Yagi
by John Zaruba Jr 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

I was originally going to replace my broken, aged Hy-Gain 2m/70cm twist Yagis with this antenna and put a dish on the other side of my az-el rotator. I have since decided to repair the Hy-Gains and this antenna is now excess to my needs. It is NEW, UNASSEMBLED, and in the original UNOPENED shipping container. $100 plus $15 shipping to CONUS. Please contact me off list if you are interested. 73, John AA2BN

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break from S band gnashing
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

Hi I just spent AOS to LOS on AO7 saying CQ to myself. Put the keyboard aside and talk to me. Strong downlink sigs to. 73 Bob W7LRD Seattle

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New software released
by Thierry F6BXM 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

Hi A friend, Gabriel F6DQM just release a new version of Sat Explorer program freeware ! http://rivat.chez-alice.fr/software.htm -- 73 de Thierry f6bxm(a)amsat.org

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Eagle modes
by McGrane 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

Greetings Happy to have read about the design changes for eagle. Sorry so many people are upset about S band not being there. Wont it be on Phase 3E? I was very impressed that the amsat design team wants to please a large number of users without requiring large investments in ground stations. Better to accommodate as many as possible instead of evryone subsidizing a project for a select few high tech types. I will continue to donate to eagle in the future. Thanks to the design committee, patrick N2OEQ

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Re: S band and Eagle: an appeal for more transparency (was Sband and Eagle: an appeal for a higher level discussion)
by i8cvs 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Wagener" <stefan_wagener(a)hotmail.com> To: <brobertson(a)mta.ca>; <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:57 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] S band and Eagle: an appeal for more transparency (was Sband and Eagle: an appeal for a higher level discussion) > The main problem with the whole discussion is that the majority of folks > have NOT seen the data. In addition, if the data are as sound as they are > portrait, why is AMSAT-DL not believing in them and is including S-band as > a downlink. How is the discussion between ANSAT-NA and AMSAT-DL > going on this? > 73, Stefan VE4NSA Hi Stefan, VE4NSA The reverse is true. If the result of the S band as a downlink on AO40 was extremely succesfull why AMSAT-NA is not believing in AMSAT-DL ? The decision of AMSAT-DL to reuse the S band for downlink of P3E is based on already experimented facts using AO40 and there is no question about that. Is someone in condition to demonstrate that the S band of AO40 was a catastrophical affair ? Don't worry about because if P3E will be succesfull in orbit at the end of 2007 than the S band as a downlink will be again the voice of truth. Best 73" de i8CVS Domenico

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BEFORE IT IS READY
by Robert McGwier 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

This is released before we are ready. We have much more documentation, analysis, etc. to provide. It will be forthcoming. http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/eagle/EaglePedia/index.php?title=San_Diego_D… Bob N4HY -- AMSAT VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP/AMQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR Wrk Grp Chairman "You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat." - Einstein

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No Mode S on Eagle
by Jim Kelly 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

A concerned satellite enthusiast wrote: "it's a horrid >marketing decision. Bad mojo for a organization that lives on the donations >of it's members." I've been around hamsats long enough now (>16 years) to vividly remember how the AMSAT movers and shakers bludgeoned us over Mode B, which we operators desperately wanted as primary on AO-40, but we were told, no, we have to move higher to Mode S. Now that many of us made the investment in Mode S and learned the technology, now that also is into the trash barrell because the techies have determined that it's too noisy. Gentlemen, the point is that the designers and engineers are running the program just as they always have and us users don't count for much except our donations. I'm sorry if this comes off as sour grapes but hell, I've been there, done that. 73, Jim Kelly, KK3K Former member AMSAT #22420 Jim Kelly, ARS KK3K, TCA 99-49842 TINPLATE TIMES http://www.tinplatetimes.com STANDARD GAUGE LIST http://groups.yahoo.com/group/standg Personal Homepage: http://mysite.verizon.net/skeptic491 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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San Diego meeting notes
by Jim Sanford 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

Ladies and gentlemen: The notes and conclusions from the San Diego meeting are now public. Please review carefully, as they explain the rationale for certain design decisions. Further information is contained in the note I sent earlier this evening. 73, Jim wb4gcs(a)amsat.org James A. Sanford, PE Eagle Project Manager

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No mode S on EAgle
by jmfranke 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

AMSAT is not a production service, it is a platform for experimentation. Several amateur satellites support or will support S-band operation. I have been with the program long enough (OSCAR III) to have heard the screams about abandoning mode A then mode J. There were lots of arguments against going to S-band, and now the voices are saying please do not abandon S-band. Well S-band is not being abandoned. The proposed new satellite will be pushing us to explore 5.6 GHz. I look forward to the challenge and will still continue to monitor the UHF, L-band, and S-band transmissions from AMSAT-NA, AMSAT-DL, and whoever else has the foresight, volunteers, and resources to orbit these exciting satellites. I vote with my donations (far above and beyond subscriptions), and I have donated to many birds, including Eagle. John WA4WDL #10211

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WI-FI already migrating on 5ghz
by Luc Leblanc VE2DWE 08 Sep '06

08 Sep '06

What they are telling us about 2.4 and 5GHZ wi-fi system in a few minutes searching. It is not rigorously mathematics and statiscally not rigorous but ALL the actual and past commenting forecast a move towards 5 ghz. Wireless phone at 2.4 are at less that 25$ et some manucturers does not produce them anymore! Excerpt from the internet. When vendors began work on 802.11a, they did not want to stay in the 2.4-GHz range used with 802.11b products. The spectrum at 2.4 GHz is a shared frequency, so devices like cordless telephones and microwave ovens can create interference problems. Also, the vendors are able to squeeze out only about five channels -- or simultaneous user connections -- in this range, which relies on direct-sequence spread-spectrum technology, a signaling technique that places a premium on security and reliability while sacrificing efficient use of available bandwidth. Keeping to Themselves In the late 1990s, the Federal Communications Commission Latest News about Federal Communications Commission opened up a new frequency range -- the 5-GHz range -- that is only available for wireless LANs, so there is no outside interference. Also, it uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing for modulation, which increases bandwidth efficiency so an access point can support about 10 simultaneous connections. By Paul Korzeniowski TechNewsWorld 01/28/04 5:00 AM PT _________________________________________________________________________________ With multiple formats available, Grewe said it's difficult to predict which technologies customers will demand. Multiband components are complicated, requiring two complete radio systems to send data over either frequency, but the result is a chip that works in any wireless system. Grewe expects faster wireless networking systems to take off in late 2003. One scenario calls for a broadband connection to a home media hub, which could distribute TV signals, digital audio, gaming and other entertainment wirelessly throughout the house. With high-definition TV signals requiring nearly 20 Mbps of bandwidth, 802.11b's 11 Mbps won't be fast enough. "We think home multimedia will be a big application (for faster wireless networking systems), but we don't expect to see that really happen until 2004 or 2005," Grewe said. One reason: Need for a 54-Mbps wireless connection hardly exists when today's DSL and cable modem connections rarely pull data at speeds faster than 11 Mbps. "People tend to forget that faster home networking is going to require faster broadband pipes to deliver content to the home," said Kim. But 802.11a offers at least one advantage right now: more radio channels. "Using more channels is like having more lanes on the freeway," said Robert Fan, a representative for Resonext Communications. "It means 802.11a gives you the capacity to support more users at the same time," important on networks in schools, large businesses and public places. By Will Wade| Also by this reporter 02:00 AM Nov, 21, 2002 ___________________________________________________________________________________ Bellanet Sandbox 2004 Higher frequency 5GHz band seems to be a more promising platform for deploying higher speed 54Mbps and up WiFi infrastructure. WiFi equipment in this band incorporates two additional features into the IEEE 802.11a standard (WiFi standard), namely, dynamic channel selection and transmit power control. Dynamic channel selection improves the ability to coexist with other user of the 5GHz bands as devices may select channels based on real-time feedback. Transmit power control is used in selecting lower-powered channel for short-range applications or higher-powered channel for long- range applications. Although, 5GHz band deployment has not been reviewed in this book. The deployment method is fairly similar to the 2.4GHz band. Quite a bit of 5GHz implementation has been done in the developing countries. Some use it as the long-haul backbone infrastructure. In dense area, some use 5GHz WiFi infrastructure for last mile access infrastructure. _________________________________________________________________________________ by Lisa Phifer, VP, Core Competence 20 Feb 2003 Although 802.11a is by no means immune to interference, it's likely to encounter less interference simply because of the 5 GHz frequencies on which it broadcasts. The reason? The 5 GHz band is shared by far fewer devices than the 2.4 GHz band used by 802.11b/g. _________________________________________________________________________________ Why AMSAT should be always 180 degres off phase with the real world...They are not only want us believe they scarp S mode only for technical reasons. If they work in a so close relation with AMSAT-DL folks why they don't convince them to scrap their S band in a way to avoid them costly and fatal errors? "-" The medium is the message...The content is the audience...;) Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe

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Re: S Band Downlink on P3E
by W7TYN 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Well it's time I jumped in on this subject!! I have read the all of the comments concerning the decision to drop a S band downlink on Eagle . It goes without notice that no one from the design team ( or AMSAT BOD ) has denied the rumor. If this reasoning exists please include on this AMSAT-BB. I took the time to read all of the Eaglepedia (which is a great service),( tnx Emily )and I see no reference to a PUBLIC discussion to abandon mode S downlink Going back to V/U modes seems to me taking a step backward to me. I was very active on AO-40 from here in Portland, Oregon. I am located in a urban area next to the High Tech. factories including the very large INTEL operation. I used a Primstar Dish and homebrew patch and had no difficultly working thru the few click present on the band. Please "Google" for AO-40 and look through the amount of information and help the average Amateur Radio satellite uplink builder can find to get on mode S. I will be looking for comments from the BOD or Eagle team that can verbilize for us why a "S-Band downlink" will not sour on our EAGLE . There I feel better...73 Joe D'Arcy W7TYN AMSAT member since 1969 AMSAT #03951

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Reflector maintenance
by Len N9IJ 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Would the reflector-master (dunno proper title) please email me. An old email account has been filled with mail though I unsubscribed some time ago. All new attempts to unsubscribe return an unknown account message and the maint(a)amsat.org address bounces. Thanks. -- Len Revelle N9IJ "My career goal is to retire"

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Presidents Club Members
by R.Haighton 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

I am trying to compile a listing of the E-mail addresses of "Presidents Club" members So that information of interest to you can be sent directly to you. I have information for those attending our September annual meeting in San Francisco, And I do need your E-mail addresses as soon as possible. (particularly Silver, Gold and Higher members) 73 Robin Haighton VE3FRH Past President AMSAT (ve3frh(a)amsat.org)

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no S band on Eagle
by Joseph Trombino Jr 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Makes me wonder why the Germans have a couple of S band downlinks on P3E if the S band downlink noise is such a problem. But then I was never accused of being overly intelligent (grin)....I guess I'll have to let better minds than mine make the decisions. 73, Joe W2KJ

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Attn: AO-51 new users
by John Mock 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Remember that you need a PL of 67 Hz to access AO-51 in mode J-FM (except in QRP mode). Please, especially if you haven't worked a given satellite in mode J-FM before, make sure you can hear well enough copy callsigns before transmitting. There might be occasions on SO-50 when you're the only one on, but over the 'States, this is rather rare on AO-51, especially in high power mode. We're having problems with dead carriers on AO-51 this week, where sometimes even the regulars with good antenna setups can't get in due to interference from stations without PL. Please listen first and use the correct PL. 73's and good luck! -- KD6PAG

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S band heo
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Hello I think we beat this one to pieces-but-. Is it possible for the "higher ups" to reevaluate the lack of S band on our next HEO? I am greatfull our DL friends will have S band downlink. Perhaps if that effort is positive then our next bird will have it also. Lets just not close the book on it. I live near Seattle lots and lots of all kinds of QRM and my S band (on a dish) is fine just a click here and there. 73 Bob W7LRD Seattle

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Need "Sat" contact with Arkansas state and Mississippi, Maine, New Hampshire
by David Bird 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

HI ALL,I am trying to earn my W.A.S Award.If you can help please e-mail me at kc7uss(a)amsat.org Thanks All.DE kc7uss

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Icom IC91A for FM sat work?
by Ken Paulson 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Hello everyone, I am planning to retire my 20 year old dual-band HT, and replace it with a current model. I would like to get a handheld that will work well for FM satellite work as well as normal repeater operation. I know that the Kenwood D7A is popular, and I have heard some mention of the Icom W32 in the past. Has anyone tried the new Icom IC91A for FM sat work? Can it simultaneously transmit and receive? I generally like this over some of the new rigs due to it being a bit more "normal" sized to operate with big fingers. Ken, N0HRL

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AO-7.
by john hackett 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

Worro! folks, Interesting to note the quadrupling of activity on AO-7 in 2006 compared to 2003 - 2005. 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org>

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AMSAT-UK Welcome Foundation Satellite Access
by Trevor 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

AMSAT-UK Welcomes Foundation Satellite Access The changes to the Amateur Licence announced in the October issue of RadCom mean Foundation holders now have access to the Amateur Satellite Service. They will be able to work through the many Amateur Satellites as well use the Voice and Packet repeaters on the International Space Station (ISS). They can also talk directly to Astronauts in space. All three astronauts currently onboard the ISS are licenced Radio Amateurs and in their spare time operate the ISS Amateur Radio Station usually on 145.800 MHz FM. AMSAT-UK is delighted that the new licence will allow full satellite access to Foundation holders. This will enable these enthusiastic operators to experience the thrills and challenges of space communications. AMSAT-UK would like to thank the RSGB for its support in regards to this change. Every year AMSAT-UK runs a Satellite Beginners Workshop to teach newcomers how to operate through the satellites. Now that Foundation holders have this valuable new privilege AMSAT-UK can look forward to record numbers attending the next workshop. AMSAT-UK produces a newsletter Oscar News packed full of Amateur Satellite information. For membership details contact the secretary Jim Heck G3WGM Tel: +44 (0)1258 453959 Email: g3wgm(a)amsat.org Website: http://www.uk.amsat.org/ ---- 73 Trevor M5AKA ___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry

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Re: Bad and good news XE2AT !! TH-F6A
by Coppock, Robert L, WWCS 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

hola, i have found that switching the TX / RX between VFOs A and B sometimes helps with these problems. there is plenty of noise and intermod around here (cm97). i hope you get some contacts, maybe i will give it a try. good luck, 73, robert kg6pib amsat # 35488

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PCSAT2 Special Ops on 12 Sept
by Robert Bruninga 07 Sep '06

07 Sep '06

PCSAT2 on ISS continues to operate its FM voice downlink on 437.975 on most passes during waking hours. Since the Shuttle has been delayed for several days, and passes are 20+ minutes earlier each day, this results in passes during the Naval Academy's morning classroom hours in the USA area next week. For EASTERN USA stations, we want to make a special FM voice contact with other schools. The 0903 EDT and 1036 EDT passes on Tuesday the 12th will occur during our students satellite lab period and we hope to contact other schools or VIP ARISS stations. If you want to set up a station during that class time, let us know so we can coordinate. Thanks, WB4APR, Bob USNA Satellite Lab

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DL62/63/72/73
by Alvaro de Leon Romo 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

I forgot to advise that I will be in SO50 and AO51.. The Thue 7th in SO50 at 2304 UTC and the Frid 8th at 0335 and 1553 UTC the three pass are very high so GL all, in case of no QSOs again I will be in the police department because the intersection of the 4 grids is a small and alone road , many thanks to KC0TGY/XE3 for give me this 4 grids :-) 73 de Al XE2AT _________________________________________________________________ Moda para esta temporada. Ponte al día de todas las tendencias. http://www.msn.es/Mujer/moda/default.asp

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Bad and good news XE2AT !!
by Alvaro de Leon Romo 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

I back to home today afternoon with a bad news :-( I can reach the line of two grids at time, the first pass I can hear the satellite very strong but unfortunally I can go trough because strong stations crowded the sat :-( , elevation was below 10 degrees and a lot of trees were a bad recipe :-( The second pass was very high but I really dont know what happen , I can hear to Allen N5AFV at the beginingof the pass but then all was crowded with another signals !!!! I called several times but the problem continue, a lot of interference and nothing about AO51 !!! All pass and no QSOs !! what a mess, 1 hour driving and no QSOs.... Well now I am using a small TH6FA and is the second time that the interferences win to the satellite signal, the interference was from a close station in 70cm but I think the radio is not selective :-( bad new.... I really miss my old TH79 and the ICw32.... The good new is that tomorrow I will fly again, my wife is happy lady ,I will be close to DL62-63-72-73, so I will try to be the Thuesday night and if no QSOs I will try again the Friday morning,..... If somebody have the same problem in the receiver side of this radio please send me an email. GL to all Ps 50 % of chance to be next week again in DL75/76.....cross your fingers 73 de Al XE2AT _________________________________________________________________ Platica con tus amigos en linea con MSN Messenger http://messenger.t1msn.com.mx/

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Journal Articles
by Ed Long 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

Everyone, Attention all you authors out there. I am calling for more articles for the Journal. I would like to have anything you would like to publish by September 22nd. Articles on many subjects about amateur satellites are interesting and are good subjects for the Journal. Get your computers warmed up and fly those fingers over the keyboard and send me something! Thanks very much. 73, Ed Long WA4SWJ Editor, The AMSAT Journal

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Florida AMSAT Net
by David J 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

The Florida AMSAT Net will meet this Thursday evening at the usual time of 7:30 pm ET, 11:30pm utc on the West Florida Group Ni4CE repeater system, the Orlando N4HHA repeater at 443.1 MHz, 103.5Hz tone, the N4LEM Cocoa repeater, 147.36 MHz +107.2 PL or connect by echolink to KG4YZY-R or N4HHA-R. The net's purpose is to provide a platform for hams with amateur satellite interest to meet and discuss topics of interest. All amateurs are invited to check in. Dave, AA4KN

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G5400 and TS-790 under Lunix??
by William Liporace - NA2NA 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

I am getting ready to learn and move to Linux. I currently have a TS-790 and a Yaesu G-5400 rotor. Can it be controlled under Linux? What kind of controller can I get? I may even try to use a KCT board that I have. I have never really had it working, does any one have this working under Linux? Any help and suggestions would be grateful!! 73 es TNX Will NA2NA telnet://na2na.net AR-Cluster Node

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Satellite gear on Ebay
by Andrew Glasbrenner 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

Hello Group, I listed some satellite related items on Ebay tonight, and will try to list more tomorrow. My Ebay ID is ko4ma, and you can go to this auction, then see all of them at the "View Seller's Other Items" link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenwood-TR-851-432-435-ssb-satellite-AMSAT-UHF-all-mode… I'll donate 10% of the auctions to AMSAT in return for the bandwidth on -bb! 73, Drew KO4MA

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Re: AO-51 back in mode J-FM (and VERY busy)
by DOBarrows＠aol.com 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

W8EH observes: Part of the trouble that I observed with AO-51 is some stronger stations (without PL) or illegal cordless phones, are blanking out the uplink. I had trouble after the switch to V/U. I usually run 2 watts to a CP KLM beam. Even with the rig boosted up to 45 watts, I couldn't overcome whatever/whoever was blanking out the sat most of the time. Out of two passes this morning, I made only one contact. Lots of stations on, but only the strongest seemed to make it over whatever was blocking us. Strange that I didn't have that trouble at all when it was in V/S mode earlier. =========================================================== I noticed the same thing - it was like AO51 had the squelch set too high. I would hear stations call me and when I keyed the mic to answer I couldn't hear myself in the downlink. It seems to happen more when AO51 is at a high elevation, maybe because the offending non-pl tone station is in my part of the country or maybe it is just that my transmit antenna (KB6KQ loop) works best at lower angles. Don't notice it on SO50. -- Dave W8IJ

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OT: Ham radio stores near Moscone Centre ?
by Tim Tuck 06 Sep '06

06 Sep '06

Hi all, Sorry for the off topic post but I'll be in San Francisco attending a conference at the Moscone Centre first week of Oct, and I was wondering what Amateur Radio stores are within walking distance of the Centre since I'm staying at a hotel close by ? This will be my first trip to SF so I hope I wont get lost :) Any other AR related info about SF greatly appreciated ! cheers Tim -- VK2XTT :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSAT :: QF56if

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Re: Shuttle Launch Frequencies - STS-115 {Was: Re: STS-121}
by Félim Doyle M3HIM 05 Sep '06

05 Sep '06

Trevor, Can you clarify what all of these are? The 1541.200 MHz seems to be in the 1535 to 1545 MHz range that you specify elsewhere as a TAL site pre-launch briefing on INMARSAT. 73 de Félim M3HIM IO91ot Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor" <m5aka(a)yahoo.co.uk> To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb(a)AMSAT.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] STS-121 > --- Vincenzo Mone <vimone(a)alice.it> wrote: > > > Hi to the list, > > pleas which are the up/downlink frequencies for the STS-121? > > I understand these frequencies are used for launch related comms: > > 1541.200 MHz, 1435.5 MHz, 261.875 MHz (f.m.) and 10.780MHz (u.s.b.) > > 73 Trevor M5AKA > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > ---- > Sent via amsat-bb(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to Majordomo(a)amsat.org

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ISS Voice, Packet & SSTV FM deviation
by Félim Doyle M3HIM 05 Sep '06

05 Sep '06

This is really a rhetorical question, as it seems fairly obvious I know, but just to be sure ... What are the correct bandwidths / FM deviations for the ISS Voice, Packet and SSTV VHF and UHF uplinks and downlinks? 73 de Félim M3HIM IO91ot Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, UK

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Happy Birthday to Voyager I
by Félim Doyle M3HIM 05 Sep '06

05 Sep '06

Happy Birthday to Voyager I. Twenty Nine years / 348 months / 1513 weeks / 10591 days old today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

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Norms Rotor Repair
by Emily Clarke 05 Sep '06

05 Sep '06

In the process of getting the U-110 working (which temporarily seems to be the case) Mike KA2AEV sent me a link to a place called "Norms Rotor Repair" which I was previously unaware of. I thought it would be good to post it here for posterity. This isn't a commercial endorse, just pointing out a potential resource for folks. http://www.rotorservice.com/ 73, Emily --------------------------------- N1DID formerly W0EEC - CM87tm Support Project OSCAR - http://www.projectoscar.net

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Re: AO-51 back in mode J-FM (and VERY busy)
by Zachary Schrempp 05 Sep '06

05 Sep '06

Nope, the alligators are the ones that are transmitting without listening. I'm sure you're listening if you are making contacts! :) 73, Zach On 9/4/06, Tim Tapio <k4shf(a)k4shf.com> wrote: > Hope I'm not an alligator with my 15 watts into a discone <smile>. > > 73 de Tim, K4SHF > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amsat-bb-bounces(a)amsat.org [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Zachary Schrempp > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:40 PM > To: Ernie Howard > Cc: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org; John Mock > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 back in mode J-FM (and VERY busy) > > I have noticed that most of the trouble seems to be powerful alligator > stations that cannot hear the downlink and boost their uplink power to > very high levels while calling long CQs. This wipes out those of us > trying to make contacts with HTs. > > On the whole I have found that regular satellite operators are very > courteous and keep their contacts short, allowing everybody a chance > to use the satellite. > > 73 - Zach KM7I > > On 9/4/06, Ernie Howard <w8eh-Ernie(a)cinci.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > John Mock wrote: > > > While 'standing on the soapbox', i'd say that i'd like to encourge folks > to > > > use the high power mode to let stations who have trouble hearing SO-50 > or > > > AO-51 to work satellites and get started. I would hope that folks who > use > > > mode J-FM on a regular basis would use coastal/oceanic passes, or SO-50, > to > > > say hello to their friends and/or talk at length about the weather. > > > > > > Please don't send them over to SO-50 to 'talk at length'. Too much of that > > is observed sometimes on the weekends now. :) > > > > Part of the trouble that I observed with AO-51 is some stronger stations > > (without PL) or illegal cordless phones, are blanking out the uplink. I > had > > trouble after the switch to V/U. I usually run 2 watts to a CP KLM beam. > > Even with the rig boosted up to 45 watts, I couldn't overcome > > whatever/whoever was blanking out the sat most of the time. Out of two > > passes this morning, I made only one contact. Lots of stations on, but > only > > the strongest seemed to make it over whatever was blocking us. Strange > that > > I didn't have that trouble at all when it was in V/S mode earlier. > > > > Ernie W8EH > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > -- > Zachary Schrempp, KM7I > Ex KE7EYQ > AMSAT #36023 > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > -- Zachary Schrempp, KM7I Ex KE7EYQ AMSAT #36023

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AO-51 back in mode J-FM (and VERY busy)
by John Mock 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

AO-51 is in high power mode J-FM this morning. I'm not sure if it's because it's a long weekend, in high power mode, or just off for awhile, but it was VERY crowded this morning. There were several interesting new or uncommon stations on, but they could not be worked at all QRP. I suspect they were having trouble as well. Eventually, folks did figure it out and paused to wait for a new/uncommon station to answer. It might be my own prejudices (as i haven't listened to the recording yet), but earlier in the pass, it seemed like it was mostly the 'regulars' working a few new-ish stations and each other. While 'standing on the soapbox', i'd say that i'd like to encourge folks to use the high power mode to let stations who have trouble hearing SO-50 or AO-51 to work satellites and get started. I would hope that folks who use mode J-FM on a regular basis would use coastal/oceanic passes, or SO-50, to say hello to their friends and/or talk at length about the weather. Alas, it is these conditions that discourage me from making my nantenna design widely available, as things are like this only discourage and frustrate new users, and easier access to mode J-FM might only make this worse. On the other hand, SO-50 has definitely seen more usage and interesting stations do pop up over the 'States, especially on transcontinental passes. So especially this week, give SO-50 a try, and try to show some restraint on AO-51 so new folks can take advantage of high power mode. -- KD6PAG (Networking Old-Timer, Satellite QRPer) P.S. I had mail to AMSAT-BB bounce this weekend, but retrying ten minutes later succeeded. You might try the same thing if your mail gets returned.

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Amateur Radio Awareness Day in Sacramento, CA
by Carl Schultz 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

Dear AMSAT members, A small announcement about our activity: On September 16th, 2006 North Hills Radio Club and others will sponsor: What is Amateur Radio (Day) in Southside park, 7th and T streets, Sacramento, CA. This is our effort for ARRL's Amateur Awareness Day on 9/16/06, during September 2006, National Preparedness Month. We will have several demonstrations of the various operating modes of Amateur radio, including satellite. While this is a club event, we are asking any operators that can visit or help operate, to please come by and do so. All clubs and Amateurs, and the public is invited. There will be the Red Cross emergency van, ARES/RACES, State OES, demonstrations of: HF, CW, IRLP, ATV, Satellite (handheld and larger antennas), HVY/UHF repeaters, Weak Signal operations. While not a designated Special Event Station, We will have K6IS (club call) will be on the air and special QSL cards will be sent to all stations worked on any mode or frequency. Of course there will be preparedness demonstrations and samples of home "go packs" for the public and for the Radio Amateur. More information at k6is.org Thanks, come on out if you are near here. 73, Carl, WF6J ---------------------- Carl Schultz, WF6J CM98io Sacramento wf6j(a)sbcglobal.net (916) 366-7408 North Hills Radio Club K6IS/r Trustee, ARRL AMSAT, SWOT 3465, WSWSS 588

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XE2AT NEW GRIDS !!!!!!
by Alvaro de Leon Romo 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

Hi boys tomorrow Tuesday 5th I will fly to a little town close to the DL75/76 boundary. I will try if the pasangers are in time to be in both pass of AO51 1434 and 1612 UTC, cross your fingers :-) GL to all 73 de Al XE2AT Ps I have almost 15 QSLs to answer , sorry about delay but I have some problems with the printer, I will send back soon, be patience :-) my status is now 99.9 in answer the QSLs _________________________________________________________________ Platica con tus amigos en linea con MSN Messenger http://messenger.t1msn.com.mx/

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9k6 satellite signal source SO-33
by Andrew Glasbrenner 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

I was playing around with my 9k6 digital equipment today, and found SO-33 is a pretty decent signal source when AO-51 and GO-32 are not around. Not much to see, but will serve in a pinch. SEDSAT-1 > TIME-1 :Uptime is 001/13:25:00 SEDSAT-1 > -1 SEDSAT-1 > TIME-1 :Uptime is 001/13:27:00 SEDSAT-1 > -1 [SAT-1 > j:|,-96: SEDSAT-1 > TIME-1 :Uptime is 001/13:28:00 SEDSAT-1 > -1 SEDSAT-1 > TIME-1 :Uptime is 001/13:29:00 SEDSAT-1 > -1 Z>wSAT-1 > @Sjx-64: SEDSAT-1 > TIME-1 :Uptime is 001/13:31:00 73, Drew KO4MA AMSAT LM 2332

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IC-475 Repair Inquiry
by Roy 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

I am having a problem in the PLL section of my IC-475 radio. It doesn't appear to be the classical "bad trimmer capacitor" problem seen in a Google search for Icom Radios. In my case the 30.72mHz Reference Oscillator, Q17, is not operating. I would like to hear direct from anyone else having that problem. I would also like to find out how to access the Icom Service Bulletins/Notes for these radios. I used to be able to go directly to a library of these notes but they seem to have either walled them off from direct access or I am not searching in the right URLs now. -- Roy -- W0SL

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Miscopied call
by Tim Tapio 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

I had an N3 station call me this morng.I wrote down N3PQC in FN21 (PA). I either transposed letters or got the whole thing wrong.. Could the station please give me the correct call? I haven't been able to pick it out from the tape. Only my third contact. 73 de Tim, K4SHF FM04

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(no subject)
by Cotejaune2＠aol.com 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

Is ao27 back ?

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External sequencer with the IC-910H
by Stan,WA1ECF 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

Hello the NET: A sequencer is needed to properly transition the PA, IPA, transverter, transceiver, and preamplifier when going from RX to TX and TX to RX. The objective is to add a very short time delay to avoid sending QRO RF power into the preamplifier or into an open, just closing relay contact, like "hot switching" which significantly reduces contact life. I use my IC-706MK2 transceiver with a Lunar Link QRO amp for terrestrial modes. These techniques are applicable to any transceiver, PA, IPA preamp configuration. Just different microphone connectors are used. I apply the same techniques to the FT-847 and the FT-1000MP (IF rig). DEMI offers a sequencer kit at about 35$US, Advanced Receiver Research, SSB, JWM engineering, LNA technologies, W1GHZ, and others also offer non kit versions. The DEMI design uses relays with a 2 amp contact rating, others can be much less. All have their unique variations. I grab the microphone PTT line, before it gets to the radio, route it to the sequencer input, then take the sequenced outputs: DC power to the preamp and bypass RF relays, 2 each SPDT legal limit rated RF relays PTT, ground to TX, to the QRO PA, PTT, ground to TX, to the IPA (or transverter) PTT ground to TX, to the transceiver For RX to TX, preamp and transfer relay power is dropped, bypassing the preamplifier time delay ~ 250 milliseconds in the unmodified DEMI sequencer PA TX is enabled time delay, ~ 250 milliseconds IPA/transverter TX is enabled time delay, ~ 250 milliseconds transceiver TX is enabled for SSb , CW, FM, whatever modulation This timing constant, in the DEMI sequencer, is a RC network and can be modified for a faster time delay. For TX to RX, The sequence is reversed. Some sequencers simultaneously change all output states, without a sequenced delay. Most sequencers allow enough flexibility to configure PTT ground to TX, or PTT +V to TX Mostly with "dry"relay contact closures for a real 0.00V on grounding, unlike a solid state switch. I put the sequencer in a diecast box with a 4 pole multi position mechanical switch to route the sequencer outputs. pole #1 is for local indicator LEDS to show what band I am controlling. pole #2 for the preamp/bypass relay power pole #3 for the PA PTT control pole #4 for the IPA/transverter PTT control The transceiver PTT is always the same, and not switched. Your configuration may vary. Avoid any break in CW keying. always force TX mode (with a manual PTT switch), before using CW One switch position per band. Stan, W1LE FN41sr Cape Cod

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Re: PCSAT2 Testing on 10 meters
by Bob Bruninga 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

All, Marty and Walter seem to be reporting some success through the PCSAT2 10 meter PSK-31 uplink! Here is a preliminary report, and it seems to imply that the frequency is off and so that may be why many people have had no success. I am stealing their thunder here to encourage others to try the transponder if they have plenty of uplink power on 10 meters. > He starting drifting down in frequency, and I could see it > come up on the water-fall in MIXW, when he was 3.6khz > lower that what it was supposed to be. > > I was not able to decode any data, but the data stream > was there, and we validated that it was him, by when he > un-keyed, and re-keyed, it went away, and returned > respectfully. Thanks for the testing! Only a few days to go before PCSAT2 goes QRT. (first EVA shut down will be 9 Sept). The PSK-31 FM downlink is on 435.275 and the uplink is supposed to be 29.400 to 9.403, but the report above suggests it might be below 29.400 a few KHz. To activate the PSK-31 transponder, send a AX.25 connect request to PCSAT2 on the 145.825 packet uplink. de Wb4APR, Bob

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Icom CT-16
by Stargate 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

Would there be any advantages/disadvantages to current or future satellite operation when using 2 Icom 706mk2G's and a CT-16 satellite converter? Thanks, RoD KD0XX

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Disregaerd...
by Tim Tapio 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

Got it off the tape.I wrote Q instead of K..old age is settling in.. Tim T.

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M-V-7 Flight Sequence
by Mineo Wakita 04 Sep '06

04 Sep '06

22Sep06 21:00-22:00, 1st stage ignition 75 sec: 2nd stage ignition, 1st stage separation 186 sec: Nose fairing open 200 sec: 2nd stage separation 202 sec: 3rd stage nozzle extension 347 sec: Attitude turn start 400 sec: Attitude turn end 510 sec: Spacecraft separation 683 sec: Sun search start 830 sec: HITSAT separation 990 sec: SSSAT separation 34 min: SAP panel deploy 40 min: Sun pointing establish http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/countdown/index.shtml --------------------------------------------- Name: Mineo Wakita / JE9PEL, JAMSAT member Mail: ei7m-wkt(a)asahi-net.or.jp URL : http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/ QTH : Yokohama Japan, GL:PM95TJ Date: Sep 4, 2006 ---------------------------------------------

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