December 2007 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

WANTED G5600B Elevator
by Dave Aitch 17 Dec '07

17 Dec '07

Looks/sounds like the elevator part of my trusty G5600B has finally given up the ghost. Anyone got a working one for sale please ? ( UK Only ) 73, Dave. Portland. Dorset. IO80SM AMSAT 5766

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ANDE now @220km
by Henk, PA3GUO 17 Dec '07

17 Dec '07

As I am not so much into maths on this topic, the only thing I do is plot the current heigth of ANDE in the graph: http://home.vianetworks.nl/users/hamoen/pa3guo/ande_predict_pa3guo_12dec200… One might conclude from this that from 220km to de-orbit the graph shows ~12 days, so de-orbit today + ~12 days = ~24 Dec. ... BUT: if for any reason ANDE comes down faster we're almost there ! There is a good bunch of activity these days; many stations Igate the packets, many stations make contacts via ANDE in these final days. And: have a look at http://www.ande-deorbit.com for details on the AWARD Henk, PA3GUO http://www.qsl.net/pa3guo

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Radios with built in duplexers How best to use?
by Michael Tondee 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

It looks like I'm going to be able to afford to buy a dual band FM rig which will get me a little more back into the sats but the ones in my price range have built in duplexers. I guess the only way I can use two antennas is to use another duplexer up at the antennas and split the coax there but it seems like I'm going to get signal loss doing that. The other thing I've thought about is going with a dualband antenna where I would have one cable without all the extra connections but I'm wondering if a problem might arise with using a 70 cm preamp in that configuration. Would the 70cm preamp RF bypass relay work when 2meter RF was transmitted? Assuming it would, would it pass the 2 meter TX and RX signals through otherwise? I know I should know this but I'm kind of stumped. Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Tnx and 73, Michael, W4HIJ AMSAT # 36017

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G8ATE Project Oscar Celebration Successful
by Dave Guimont 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Congratulations are in order for G8ATE's (Rob) thoughtful origination of GB ZERO OSCAR ONE (GB0O1). Marty Davidoff's THE SATELLITE EXPERIMENTERS MANUAL preserved it for posterity....And I would like to see Rob's efforts celebrating it repeated annually by ALL AMSATS worldwide. I quote from Marty's first edition: "And so, on December 12,1961, at 2042 GMT, Discover XXXVI was launched into orbit, carrying into separate orbit OSCAR 1 guided in its flight into history by the thoughts and prayers of thousands of radio amateurs who stand on the threshold of tomorrow." It sent a simple "hi hi", and the speed of transmission gave an indication of its temperature. CERTAINLY AN EVENT WORTH CELEBRATING ANNUALY... During the five day event I was fortunate to make contacts (ssb, FM and cw) on AO7, VO52, VO50 and AO51, and mentioned the GB0O1 callsign on them all, my only option in San Diego, limited by LEO's. A digital carry over did not seem to constitute a CONTACT; my old fingers make it difficult for me to "talk" with them! Tnx agn to Rob, to the other GB'ers who assisted, and to my respondents... A high spot in my 71 year interest in ham radio. I ("bootlegged") on cw in 1937. 73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1(a)san.rr.com Disagree: I learn.... Pulling for P3E...

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AO-27 pass 2035 UTC
by Ed Tump 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Folks, I was able to make my 2nd contact using this sat but my tape recorder did not work and neither did my brain. Anyone that knows who I "spoke' to please let me know. I can only remember that is was a gentleman from Washington, DC. Thank you. 73, Ed KC9GWK Grid EN52 AmSat Member

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AMSAT UK Colloquium - Dates for 2008 Event
by Jim Heck 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Hi Folks, Please be advised that the dates for the next AMSAT-UK Colloquium are 25/26/27 July 2008. Location and general arrangements will be similar to last year's event. More details later. Please note the date in your diaries NOW. Wish best wishes for the Festive Season HNY es 73 Jim G3WGM Hon Sec AMSAT-UK

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UK Space competition.
by G0MRF＠aol.com 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Further details of the UK schools competition to put an experiment into space are available here. _http://www.spaceexperiment.info/_ (http://www.spaceexperiment.info/) Apparently the experiment will be powered from the host satellite's 28V supply and data will be downlinked via its transmitter. Thanks David G0MRF

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UK AMsat website been hacked!
by Chris Bloy 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Hi All, The UK Amsat sites been hacked, anyone on here know who to contact to put it right? www.uk.amsat.org Thanks, Chris

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satscape tv
by Mr Jeffrey L Ross 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

hi folks, thought I would let everyone know that satscape has something called satscape tv now with neat stuff about ham radio and the sats. check it out at http://www.satscape.co.uk/tv.html just in case people dont know about it or want to know about it. 73 kc8gkf p.s. renewing my membership with amsat asap and am going to ask all the hams I know to join.

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Re: Phase 4 versus Eagle
by Tom Clark, K3IO 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

In a private note, Ed (KL7UW) pointed out that his gain numbers had assumed an aperture efficiency of 55%. Given this ~-3 dB value for the losses, his "gain" and my "directivity" values (as contained in the AMSAT Symposium paper I referenced) are in agreement. Thanks to Ed for explaining his assumptions. 73, Tom

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plethora of birds
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Hello With the plethora of commercial satellites whizzing around, specifically the ones that are approaching their "end of life", and being replaced. Is it at all feasable they could be "reconfigured" to accomodate "us". We hams are pretty good at "making due" with just about anything. Just pondering the thought. 73 Bob W7LRD AMSAT 28498 Seattle

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ANDE 1 and 2 Report Dec 16 2007: still all is working fine !
by Henk, PA3GUO 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

ANDE 1 and 2 Report Dec 16 2007: still all working fine ! ========================================================= - ANDE now getting to only 210 km height - Footprint getting smaller - AND: still more and more stations make contacts !! ========================================================= 14:35 CET / 50 degrees elevation pass: Was able to logon to ANDE-2 at 20 degrees elevation and set TE 1 (twice, to get value confirmed). Result: ANDE-2 works fine, TE 1 was set to 10 seconds successfully ! 20071216144007 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,OE1VKW: T#013,002,015,014,007,006,01000000,746 20071216143956 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,OE1VKW: T#012,122,154,153,152,155,10101110,746 20071216143947 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,PE1ITR: T#011,135,048,051,048,213,11100001,746 20071216143947 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAO,PE1ITR::ANDE 2 OK ! 20071216143926 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,OE1VKW: T#009,002,050,038,028,024,01000000,746 20071216143916 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,PE1ITR: T#008,122,155,154,153,155,10101110,746 20071216143906 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,OE1VKW: T#007,135,048,051,048,213,11100001,746 20071216143856 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,OE1VKW: T#006,122,168,117,001,029,00000010,746 20071216143846 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAo,DL8DR: T#005,002,015,014,007,006,01000000,746 <-- as of here 10 seconds interval 20071216143821 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAo,DL8DR: T#003,122,170,117,001,029,00000010,617 <-- just before this TE 1 was set ... 14:38:13 !TELEMTRY was 1 WAIT <-- confirmation: period was already 10 seconds 14:38:11 !prompt:TE 1 <-- re-issue of TE 1 to get confirmation 14:38:04 !prompt:TELEMTRY was 5 WAIT <-- confirmation of ANDE-2 14:38:02 !TE 1 <-- set telemetry rate to 10 seconds ... 20071216143729 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAo,DK3WN-1:T#002,002,062,047,036,031,01000000,000 <-- beacon because side B is awake 20071216143657 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAo,DK3WN-1:waking up side B ... 20071216143641 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,PE1ITR: T#001,122,158,158,156,157,10101110,000 <-- beacon due to the wake up of side B 20071216143559 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAO,PE1ITR:waking up side B ... <-- waking up side B 13:05 CET pass: ANDE is now flying faster, so less and less time is available each pass. Tried to logon to ANDE-2 during the 78 degrees elevation pass,but only after 2 attempts I got logged on. However, I was not able to submit the TE 1 command on time. My link got broken as can be seen below: 20071216130702 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAO,PE1ITR::ALL : Hello 20071216130657 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,PA3GUO:T#002,002,015,014,008,007,01000000,696 20071216130628 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAO,PE1ITR:C DISC2 20071216130615 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAO,PA3GUO:TE 1 20071216130410 : ANDE-2]APRS1,SGATE,qAO,PA3GUO::BLN1ANDE :ANDE-1 only wakes up 1 of evry 15s for users. Pse conserve. 20071216130356 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-2*,qAO,PA3GUO:waking up ANDE 2 APRS users: OK1DNT, OE1VKW, PA3GUO, F9XG, DL8DR, SP8RSL, F1IKD-6, F1SRC, SQ2RH APRS QSO: 20071216130748 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-1*,qAO,SP7THR-3::OK1DNT : QSL 20071216130711 : OK1DNT]CQ,ANDE-1*,qAO,SM7WSJ::PA3GUO-8 :ok1dnt@seznam.cz good afternoon OM op. Denis Hello frm Teplice 73! ANDE-1 downlink: 20071216130732 : PA3GUO-8]APRS,ANDE-1*,qAo,DK3WN-1::ALL : http://www.qsl.net/pa3guo 20071216130723 : ANDE-1]BEACON,qAO,PA3GUO:T#004,135,048,051,048,214,11100001,000 20071216130453 : ANDE-1]BEACON,qAO,PA3GUO:T#001,121,141,139,138,137,10101110,000 73 - Henk, PA3GUO http://www.qsl.net/pa3guo

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FO-29 schedule Dec.-Jan.
by Mineo Wakita 16 Dec '07

16 Dec '07

Time UTC 2007 Dec. 18 3:06 - 19 3:56 - 20 3:00 - 21 3:51 - 22 2:56 -, 4:45 - 23 3:46 - 24 2:52 -, 4:38 - 25 None 26 2:47 - 27 3:37 - 28 2:43 - 29 3:33 - 30 2:40 -, 4:25 - 31 1:45 -, 3:28 - 2008 Jan. 1 2:33 -, 4:20 - 2 1:38 -, 3:25 - 3 2:30 -, 4:15 - 4 None 5 2:25 -, 4:10 - 6 3:15 -, 5:00 - 7 None de JE9PEL, Mineo Wakita

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KJ6KO L-band amps
by Andrew Glasbrenner 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

I'm curious how these are working out for folks. I have had mine for several weeks but haven't used it yet. Has anyone come up with a source for a good relay to use it on 1296, or a nifty design to switch the amp on and off? 73, Drew KO4MA

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Re: Phase 4 versus Eagle
by Tom Clark, K3IO 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Ed, KL7UW said: > Have to agree with Drew even if this reduces signal levels at extreme > latitudes. I would assume that the P4 centered on the NA&SA would > boresight the equator with a beam chosen to match the earth's > apparent angular size = arcsin (8000/23500) = 19.9 deg. which > corresponds with an antenna with 19.5 dB. At 2.4 GHz an 18-inch dish > has about 19.7 dB gain. Such a footprint would only be 3 dB down at the poles. Ed -- I think you calculated for the gain over a dipole and not dBi. The Isotropic would be ~2 dB higher (22.4 dBi for a beam that is about 3.5 dB down at the edge of the earth). I derived the number in my paper on phased arrays presented at the last (Pittsburgh) AMSAT Space Symposium; see pages 1&2 and Table 1 in http://mysite.verizon.net/w3iwi/electronic_scanning_antennas.pdf. In my EAGLE paper, I made the calculation for the altitude of a GEO satellite, since that approximates the altitude we would get with EAGLE with a rocket boost from GTO. Also, strictly speaking, your number is the directivity. Directivity refers to the beam size without considering any ohmic or scattering losses in a real antenna. The real "gain" of an antenna is always poorer than the directivity by a factor of typically 50% or so. To divert any incoming questions: Yes, my symposium paper describes my thoughts on antennas for EAGLE in an elliptical HEO orbit, where we have to expend some effort on pointing the antenna from a spinning spacecraft. My phased array ideas are based on the notion that (a) we will want to point at the earth even when we are away from apogee, and (b) trying to mechanically point an antenna (or the spacecraft itself) is wayyyyy! beyond the limits of amateur technology. Item (b) points to one of the big advantages of the piggyback-to-GEO P4 possibility -- the "parent" bus will provide a platform, stabilized to a degree or better, so we can use "simple" antennas (probably dishes) for the microwave frequencies [saving me the hassle of designing a "real world" electronically steered phased array]. To get a feeling for the "antenna farm" we might have for P4, Google yielded a few interesting photos: 1. http://space.skyrocket.de/index_frame.htm?http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sda… shows the DoD IRIS payload riding in the space we might occupy 2. http://www.cnes.fr/web/print-6086-intelsat-11-optus-d2.php shows an Intelsat satellite being mated to an Ariane 5 3. Intelsat 10, launched on 2004: http://www.astrium.eads.net/families/daily-life-benefits/communications/int… 4. The 2005 Sealaunch of IA-8: http://www.dailywireless.org/2005/06/23/intelsat-spotbeam-launched <http://www.dailywireless.org/2005/06/23/intelsat-spotbeam-launched/> 73 & Season's Greetings de Tom, K3IO

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Robert Mcqwier
by Fred A Parker 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hello, First: I want to thank every one that supported me through some very trying times. Second: Some members of Amsat have suggested to me that they plan on holding out membership renewal and donations. I do not condone that action as of yet. 75% of the members, volunteers and officers of Amsat are a great bunch of dedicated people who want only to please the members and are great to work with. With the goal of getting some birds in the sky for Amsat members and the general ham community at large. To punish them would do no service to them and the Amsat members and ham radio at large. As any corporation Amsat does from time to time need to clean house and through out the trash. In my opinion the first and worse case is that of Robert McQwier. As vice president of engineering Bob has been a total failure. In example he allowed Dick Jansen to spend hundreds if not thousands of hours designing Eagle and then coming up with a new design so every thing has to start from day one. In my case he had me spend in the neighborhood of three hundred hours on a very difficult module design to manufacture. To truly manufacture these parts they should have been done with custom forming dies costing upwards off $20.000.00 each. I did manage to do the job by designing and building a custom sheet metal brake. Only to have Bob decide they will not work. When in the very beginning I suggested the design that he now has on the drawing board. I could go on and on but think this is enough. To work for him, just read the email I have included with this post and let your imagination go to work for you. No wonder Amsat has trouble finding volunteers and donors. As it stands now Eagle is behind from when I started. Amsat has lost the full services of Dick Jansen over this fiasco and as present I do not know of any one who has replaced him. Bob Davis is doing some of the work but does not have enough time devote to get it done promptly. The final straw is his slandering and degrading of senior citizens members of Amstat. No organization can tolerate such an attitude and expect to survive. I suggest all members of Amsat to contact the board of directors concerning this matter and giving them your opinion. Then we volunteers and others can get together and get some birds in the sky in any form that is decided on. Myself I am chomping at the bit to get to work. Thanks Again Fred KF0AK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McGwier" <rwmcgwier(a)gmail.com> To: "Fred A Parker" <fparker(a)paulbunyan.net> Cc: "'AMSAT BoD'" <bod(a)amsat.org>; "senior-officers" <Senior-officers(a)amsat.org> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Phase 4 versus Eagle > Fred A Parker wrote: >> Just a suggestion, Has Amsat explored the idea of hiring a professional >> to help in some of the day to management and fund raising? When Amsat >> has a potential consumer base of 700,000 hams. If things were done >> right money should be no problem. Amsat needs to do a better job of >> selling itself. Then money should be no problem. >> Fred > > > Not only have we considered it Fred but you continue to demonstrate your > ignorance and hostility by not knowing that we have done exactly that. > You do not know that all sorts of efforts have been made at raising > funds. We are told at every step what basic axioms there are in fund > raising. You have to have something to sell to the interested party. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > No one is interesting in funding a private repeater for 20 guys to talk > to each other about their brand new scars and brand new meds and we > would be FOOLS to kowtow to people who will be dead or uninterested > before we get into orbit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have a professional fund raiser hired and > contracted. We have a professional manager who is doing a DAMN GOOD > job, better than when I was a director 15 years ago. > > It really is time for you to basically shut up and go do some > investigation before you make a further complete fool of yourself. > Barry asked me if I was shooting the messenger on an unpleasant message. > I have made a very successful career out of promoting and working with > unpleasant messengers. I have never promoted a single one who fired all > cannons in a public forum with wrong facts, open hostility, and just > plain dumb ignorance. > > Really Fred, you are well over the line. This is personal, ad hominem, > and of no utility to the organization you ostensibly support. > > Bob > > -- > AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, > TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair > “An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why > must the pessimist always run to blow it out?” Descartes > >

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Explain Photo?
by jkelly＠home 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Can someone explain to me what actually is happening in this photo? http://www.eanet.com/kodama/astro/2007/1110a/7.htm Jeff KT2K

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2007 AMSAT President's Report Posted
by JoAnne Maenpaa 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hello everyone, The AMSAT web page at http://www.amsat.org has been updated with a summary of the 2007 President's Report which Rick W2GPS presented in person during the Annual General Meeting segment of the Symposium. -- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM k9jkm(a)amsat.org

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Orators and Engineers...
by Bob Bruninga 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hey, no one's perfect. >> No one is interesting in funding a private >> repeater for 20 guys to talk to each other ... > Did you *really* say that? ... > Diplomacy is called for.. I wish evryone would back off. Bob is one heck of an engineer and technical leader, and that is his job. He is not the silver tongued BS manager. He is not a diplomat and he says what the thinks. We all have rough edges, but as again, I have leared over my 45 years in ham radio... Let those people with ideas and know how, and initiative and interest PROCEED forward. Get out of the way. Support them where they can. Trying to complain and convince someone else to do what *you* want done in a volunteer progam like ham radio ALWAYS FAILS to make progress and even worse, usually causes those that are leading the charge to give up in disgust over all the ankle biting and nit-pickers... When I first met Bob I was a little surprised at his frankness and some things that he said, but over the last few years as I have watched him proceed with his ideas and great techincal competance, and I now chuckle at it and leared to take his comments with a grain of salt, to appreciate his initiative and to hang on for the ride! Let the orators and BS masters hone their craft. And let the engineers get on with building us a fantastic new capabiliity and a new -position- of responsibility within the EmCom organizations that will assure our continued future success. Bob Bruninga WB4APR

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AO-7 Mode A 10m Rx ant.?
by Joe Krepps 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Just how big/complicated of an antenna do I need to get the 10m downlink from AO-7's Mode A? I'm looking for something that's portable. I'd be incredibly pleased if the 10m element stuck in my Diamond MV3A, magmounted to my Outback's roof would do it. (I could stick the 10m element in the side holder if need be - the antenna can accomodate 2 elements at once.) Tnx & 73 Joe WB3CFN

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Safekeep Sat Radios
by sco＠sco-inc.com 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Has anyone thought about the idea/need/way to safeguard a few ham radio sets in an area in case of EMP? A nuclear device set off above ground will wipe out all modern electronics (ham sat radios) within a large distance from the epicenter. Even if the radios are outside the blast and radiation areas they would be useless because of the EMP (electro magnetic pulse). I would think that HS might be willing to fund a way to create some safe rooms to store some ham gear around the country. Perhaps even a large "safe box"? Ham satellite gear should be in this category. Les W4SCO

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Private Posts
by clintbrad4d＠earthlink.net 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

..you should know that anything said in a private email can be considered public domain, and *will* get repeated... Legally, you are entirely incorrect. It is a moral issue - an issue of lack of private integrity - when someone reposts a private message in public forums. Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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AO-51 SSET success
by Mineo Wakita 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

SSET (Satellite Simulated Emergency Test) UI-View32, up 1268.700 MHz, down 435.150 MHz, 9600 bps FSK Time JST JE9PEL>APRS,PACB-1* [12/16/07 07:45:13] <UI R>: =3523.05N/13936.61E- Yokohama Japan {UIV32N} JE9PEL>APRS,PACB-1* [12/16/07 07:47:25] <UI R>: :EMAIL :ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp /SatSE Test via AO-51 JH1BCL>APRS,PACB-1* [12/16/07 07:48:41] <UI R>: =3615.39N/13909.03E-KAMISATO JAPAN {UIV32N} JA5BLZ>APRS,PACB-1* [12/16/07 07:51:31] <UI>: GM to ALL http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/71216a51.jpg http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/71216a52.jpg http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/71216a53.jpg http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/71216a54.jpg --------------------------------------------- Name: Mineo Wakita / JE9PEL, JAMSAT member Mail: ei7m-wkt(a)asahi-net.or.jp URL : http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/ QTH : Yokohama Japan, GL:pm95tj Date: Dec 16, 2007 ---------------------------------------------

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Looking for G-5500 part
by Andrew Glasbrenner 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Would anyone happen to have the lower half casting for a G-5500 they would sell? I can imagine Yaesu will be very expensive after getting a price on a motor a while back. 73, Drew KO4MA

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Re: Phase 4 versus Eagle
by Edward Cole 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Drew, I have direct personal experience with this when I was a TVRO installer up here in Alaska. Before the mid-1980's TV-satellites pointed their antennas at mid America around Kansas - Nebraska. Due to Alaska being not only at the far northern fringe but also western edge of the beam, signals were down around 6 to 10 dB (from memory). This meant that to receive the signal in Alaska one needed at minimum a 12 to 14 foot dish. IN Barrow (Lat=70) it took 16 to 20 foot dishes pointed a few degrees above the horizon (7-deg max due south). As time went on the satellite industry re-pointed some of the satellites to better favor Alaska and Hawaii resulting in being able to use 8 to 10 foot dishes. Today we get ku-band sat-TV with the use of a 30-inch dish (you use an 18-inch dish in the lower-48). We find that we need a 1-1.2 m dish to overcome rain/snow fading, though. OK how does this relate to P4? For far-north or far-south stations, it will require careful ham station antenna location that can see a clear low horizon elevation angle and probably more antenna gain to overcome being on the fringe of the satellite antenna "footprint". If the sub-satellite (straight down) position on the equatorial orbit is too far east or west of one's local longitude, there will be no view above the horizon for the extreme latitude stations. This will have no technical cure. So hopefully the orbit positions that can be obtained will be favorable to the maximum population. I would expect P4A and P4B will ride to mid-America and European positions. The Pacific sat probably would be the last launched if one were trying to reach the maximum ham population centers (only logical). So you can see why Alaskan satellite operators are hoping for the launch of P3E and Eagle. Otherwise we may be in for a long wait till P4C! PS: I'm taking the liberty of assigning the designations P4A, P4B, P4C (not AMSAT terminology). Following the saga with interest - and hope! 73, Ed - KL7UW At 08:50 AM 12/14/2007, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote: >I noticed the new release of SATPC32 12.7 includes Intelsat >spacecraft in one of the keplerian/satellite options. You can scroll >through them and get an idea of the possibilities and range of >footprints. Real life performance will be, as Bob suggests, >dependent on our antenna pattern. Other services are usuable from >the poles, such as Inmarsat, given enough gain and a clear horizon. >MTI uses this as a selling point for their phone with the 4 ft >dishes we S-band types are so fond of. So we might work fairly well >out to the edge, again, dependent on the antenna. > >73, Drew KO4MA > > >From: Robert McGwier <rwmcgwier(a)gmail.com> > > > >We do not know the answer yet. Our request is for multiple payloads, > >covering with subsat over Atlantic, Pacific, and Central U.S. We would > >need one over the Indian Ocean to cover the 2 pi radians of the equator > >with antenna pattern. The north and south pole would be left out so I > >am sure the emperor penguins and polar bears would be upset! > > > >Bob > > > >Simon Brown wrote: > >> Where would this GEO be positioned? Even rough information would be > >> interesting. > >> > >> Simon Brown, HB9DRV > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 73, Ed - KL7UW ====================================== BP40IQ 50-MHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xpol-20, 185w DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa(a)hotmail.com ======================================

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Phase 4 versus Eagle discussion seen from Copenhagen, Europe
by OZ1MY 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hi all, I do not want to go into this discussion from a political point of view - just technical. >From my point of view looking at it from Copenhagen, the most interesting thing is where the GEO is placed. A fast look at NOVA manipulating existing GEO satellite keps makes it clear that a position at around 90 degrees West will put NA and SA into the footprint (including Hawaii and Alaska). This position will place me outside the footprint - and most of Europe as well. If shifted to 60 degrees West I can just make it :-) That is with an elevation of 2.4 degrees and a range around 41400 km. If I can make it will amongst other factors depend upon the radiation pattern of the antennas on the satellite. Regarding frequencies I agree with Ed, KL7UW. Lots of us have the equipment and antennas to work L/S. Also any station able to work L2/S2 on AO-40 should be able to make it. The comments above assumes SSB - but if we add the possibilities to use digital forms of (voice) modulation, we can add the advantage of Forward Error Correction. A non technical comment: Go for both. 73 OZ1MY Ib

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Recording both transmit & receive on IC-910H?
by Rick Mann 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hi. I'm getting ready for an important contact. I'm new to all this, and only owned my 910H for a couple weeks. I want to connect the audio to my computer to digitize it, but I want to get both my transmissions and the received audio out, when transmitting on one frequency and receiving on another. Can the radio do this? How would I safely connect it? TIA, Rick

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To explain a photo
by Bato, Andras 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hi Jeff, Certainly Luke Skywalker was switching to cosmic speed. :) gl de ha6nn Andras

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Re: EXTREMELY LONG
by Joe Krepps 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Thank you, Bob, for your lengthy message! I've been in a similar situation, with another hobby of mine, where giving folks "both barrels" meant 16" shells from a battleship, not a shotgun! It's a tough message to write. I appreciate the time it took you to compose it. I've been sitting on the fence about whether to join AMSAT or not. I have yet to have a QSO via any satellite. I was waiting to have a QSO to decide if it was worth it or not. (I _do_ love 20m! It's a whole lot easier to get a QSO on 20m Vs. a satellite.) Your transparency/openness and integrity have swayed me. So much truth was in your message about the future of Ham Radio! The relentless bickering on this list had me ready to unsubscribe for the 2nd time. I hope it's over! I'll be joining ASAP. Three cheers for Echo and P3! (I see the value of a geostationary satellite for emergencies but it seems too much like just another 2m repeater otherwise....but that's purely my own opinion!) Tnx & 73, Joe WB3CFN <-future AMSAT member :)

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Clearance for Arrow II antenna when mounted?
by Rick Mann 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hi. I have an Arrow II Yagi crossed 7x7 (440 MHz) and dual-band 3x7 (144 MHz & 440 MHz). The manufacturer rates them at 10 W max while hand-held, but if I mount them, they're rated at 150 W max? I have an IC-910H, max 100W on 144 MHz and 75W on 440 MHz. There are two scenarios: 1) On a tripod that someone will stand next to, and manually orient. 2) On a tracking telescope mount I have. My other concern here is that EMI will interfere with the telescope's on-board computer. In each case, how far should I keep away from the antenna? Sadly, they don't publish radiation patterns. If it's manually oriented, I suppose I can have a friend run out to it when not transmitting, re-point the beam a bit, then run away before I transmit. Any suggestions? TIA, -- Rick

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Re: Phase 4 versus Eagle
by Fred A Parker 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Just a suggestion, Has Amsat explored the idea of hiring a professional to help in some of the day to management and fund raising? When Amsat has a potential consumer base of 700,000 hams. If things were done right money should be no problem. Amsat needs to do a better job of selling itself. Then money should be no problem. Fred

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Re: Phase 4 versus Eagle
by Tom Clark, K3IO 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

N4HY stated > We are spending a significant amount of money THIS YEAR producing a > hardware frame for the Eagle spacecraft. The electronic systems are > very similar. Intelsat will have more capability than Eagle as we > currently understand what we THINK the situation is because we will have > a) a better antenna platform and b) much more power. One thing the members should realize is that the "amateur radio" portion of the satellite programs constitutes only about 10% of the programmatic effort. IMHO, if things go in the direction I'd like to see, the GEOstationary P4 possibility has several other advantages to be added to Bob's list: c) A major portion of the P3 satellite effort, going all the way back to P3A (that achieved an aquatic orbit way back in 1980), has involved the need for us to become real "rocket scientists" by flying our own propulsion systems to achieve the HEO orbit. With the GEO P4possibility, someone else worries about the motors. That lops off (at least) 30-40% of the 90% non-radio overhead (and helps to prevent ulcers among the volunteer builders). d) Flying as a piggyback on somebody else's spacecraft means that they will handle all the attitude control problems. This removes the need for earth sensors, magnetorquers and an incredibly labor intensive effort to use the magnetorquers to actually point the spacecraft (remember that you are trying to push a gyroscope and all pushes cause the spin axis to precess). We had to be really good at pointing the spacecraft because the spin axis has to be properly aligned in the orbit plane in just the right direction in order to fire the kick motor! e) (expanding on Bob's item b) -- The current GEO plans would have the main spacecraft provide us with power. The solar panels needed for EAGLE would have cost us upwards of $2 million (unless we were to find a really generous sugar-daddy). And the power levels we have been discussing with the GEO supplier are about twice what we would have been able to generate on EAGLE, meaning signals will be stronger. f) There has been a lot of discussion here about launch availability and cost. So far, we have had a hard time identifying an affordable launch for a single EAGLE. It appears that the GEO piggyback may well cost LESS than an EAGLE launch to GTO. g) An even more important aspect of (f) is that these launches are a renewable resource. Unless we blow the opportunity badly, we can launch additional payloads every year or so. (Some info on the most recent launch in October is seen at http://www.orbital.com/NewsInfo/release.asp?prid=629). The places we might be able to get a ride to can be seen by clicking on either the HTML or FLASH item at http://www.intelsat.com/network/satellite/. h) The pricetag for either EAGLE or a GEO P4 may well be more than we, as amateurs, are able to raise. We are actively pursuing new funding sources. Right now, one of the most promising is from the US Gov't under the aegis of Homeland Security. Amateur Radio is well known as a very competent "first responder" of communications services. The HS people learned from Katrina that there is a need for 24/7 rapid response capabilities that can cover a sizable area where the infrastructure has collapsed. Some commercial sources have responded with multi-Billion dollar proposals. We think that they will be responsive to a grant request of a few percent of this, including the provision of ground terminals which would be deployed at a number of locations around the country (like at your QTH?). As a Board member I have wholeheartedly embraced the P4 GEO concept as the best (and perhaps only) act in town. I hope that the rest of the AMSAT members are similarly enthusiastic about the idea. As of now, it still is only an idea. It may not happen. But I can guarantee that we are guaranteed to fail if we don't try; and to try we need to know that the community is behind the effort. Remember that AMSAT is an all-volunteer effort, and YOU ARE AMSAT. Season Greetings and wishes for a successful 2008 -- Tom Clark, K3IO

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ISS Packet activity? I'm having problems and getting frustrated
by Michael Tondee 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Since for the moment I am down to just a two meter mobile for ham equipment, I have been trying to get a setup going for packet and APRS. At the moment I have only been experimenting with the receive side of things but I'm not having much luck. I'm using a 4 element beam with Az/El tracking that I used to use when working the LEO's along with SatPC32 for rotor control. I'm setup with AGWPE and UIview32 using a soundcard. I've tried several passes tuned to 145.825 and so far on just one I was able to get one small packet to decode on the UIView32 terminal screen. I'm not seeing any APRS stations appear on the map and on the last three good passes I've tried I've heard little if any packet activity at all. What am I doing wrong here? Is it possible there is no activity on some of the passes? Even when I've heard packets I've only successfully decoded one. Tnx for any advice or pointers someone could give, 73, Michael, W4HIJ AMSAT # 36017

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Re: Satellite Antennae
by Joe Krepps 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

> http://www.tech-software.net/antennae/ > > Some photos of my antenna antics How many of these did it take for your neighbors to think you were trying to contact the mothership? ;) :) Nice work. Thanks for sharing. I get looks when I stick the 20m element on top and the 40m element in the side of the Diamond MV3A magmounted to my Subaru. Nice conversation starter. Joe WB3CFN

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IC-PCR1500 DopplerSoftware ??
by CE3SOC Raul Romero 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

any info have icom pcr1500 need software for automatic doppler any help Raul CE3SOC

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ANDE Dec 15: cruising now below 215km
by Henk, PA3GUO 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

ANDE is still doing fine, and many stations grab the opportunity to make a quick APRS QSO during the last days in space of our friend: 5P22U]APRS,ANDE-1*,qAO,PA3GUO::F1SRC :copy, 59 tnx F1SRC]CQ,ANDE-1*,qAO,PA3GUO:73, 5P22U de F1SRC qsl qsl 5P22U]APRS,ANDE-1*,qAo,ON7EQ::G0ISW :59 qsl Based on todays keppler set & NOVA, I took the average height of ANDE and updated the plot: http://home.vianetworks.nl/users/hamoen/pa3guo/ande_predict_pa3guo_15dec200… Have look yourself on that graph, the end is coming soon ! Will ANDE celebrate its first birthdate / 1 year in SPACE ? Who dares to make a prediction in the amsat-bb on which date ??? Then: this may be a false alarm, but for the first time ever ANDE-2 did not execute a command properly. After I set the telemetry rate to 10 seconds, it did in reality take a period of 16 seconds: 20071215150027 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAo,DL8DR:T#006,119,146,142,156,168,10101110,770 20071215150009 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAo,DL8DR:T#005,130,048,051,048,213,11100001,770 20071215145953 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAo,ON7EQ:T#004,118,175,112,001,030,00000010,770 20071215145937 : ANDE-2]BEACON,qAO,PA3GUO:T#003,119,146,142,156,167,10101110,641 First sign of heat ? Well: maybe not, but click here and you see the TEMP trend: http://www2.findu.com/cgi-bin/tele1.cgi?call=ANDE-1&cycle1=10&last=168&para… ... it's going up slowly ! Why not join and provide the telemetry data yourself ?! Just wake up ANDE and press now and then an APRS message, only then telemetry will be transmitted by ANDE-1. Simply IGate the data to (using ALogger or UIView) and you make a difference ! U APRS VIA ANDE @145.825 is all you need ! Coming days I expect: - ANDE to fly faster and faster - ANDE to fly lower (more doppler effect) - Kepplers to be updated at least every day - Kepplers to become less accurate Watch the health of ANDE 'live' here: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/andeTLM1.html Or decode it yourself: ANDE-1]BEACON,qAO,PA3GUO:T#012,009,176,121,002,131,00100010,515 Can be analysed with the software of Mike, DK3WN: http://www.dk3wn.info/files/ande.zip Who will receive the very last packet ? Can your station grab each day a packet ? Did you make an APRS QSO ? Look at http://www.ande-deorbit.com for the AWARD. The official ANDE central source of information is here: http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/ande-ops.html The 'live' traffic: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/pcsat.cgi Stay tuned (better: tune in)- it's getting very exciting ! 73 - Henk, PA3GUO http://www.qsl.net/pa3guo (my own satellite weblog)

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Re: [Mw] Dish reflector density (and Kaguya)
by Michael Fletcher 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Loren Moline WA7SKT wrote: > Hello, Hi, CC:ing AMSAT-BB in case somebody wants to quit the keyboard and do something cool for a change ;-) > Is there anything that says what the maximum space or hole size in a not solid dish should be. Depends on the thickness and hence fringe effects (the cutoff is half a wavelength, but for all practical reasons (the "thinness" of the material), you can take 10 - 20 % of the freespace wavelength. > I have been told that a barbque grill antenna works better if you cover with 1/4" or smaller hardware cloth adhering to the curvature of the original dish shape. Well, the grill design is linearly polarised, so for circular polarisation (with a suitable feed also), making the reflector more complete can give you up to 3 dB gain (circular over linear). Tonight I used a +- 45 degree linearily polarised W-LAN patch, outer dimensions 8 * 10 cm, with a commercial preamp specified at 1.2 dB NF; solid copy with the naked ear, even through double glazing (i.e. the antenna is seeing a lot of ambient noise temperature too). This thing is extremely difficult to make non-audible by the ear. I just did pretty much the ultimate test and used a QBFH omnidirectional: no problem hearing Kaguya by the ear. What this means is you can hear the 2.2 GHz carrier from the moon whilst mobile, no DSP, SDR, nothing... > Loren Michael, OH2AUE -- "Life is too short for Sudoku"

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AO-16 and IO-26 MBL telemetry
by Mike Rupprecht 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hi, both Microsat satellites , AO-16 and IO-26 are in MBL state and sending telemetry (1k2 PSK) PACSAT AO-16 Dec 15, 2007 1220 UTC ############################ +10V Battery Bus : 0,00 V (sensor faulty) Battery Charge Reg : 0,78 mA Base Temp : 29,68 °C PSK RF Out : 1,81W +5V RX Bus : 4,91 V +8.5V RX Bus : 8,50 V +10V RX Bus : 10,89 V ITAMSAT IO-26 Dec 15, 2007 1310 UTC ############################ +10V Battery Bus : 10,89 V Battery Out Current: 37,80 mA Base Temp : 17,50 °C TX Power : 0,00 NC +5V RX Bus : 4,92 V +8.5V RX Bus : 8,36 V +10V RX Bus : 10,23 V 73, Mike DK3WN

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satpc32 labjacj question
by Nick Pugh 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Hi All I am using satpc32 and labjack for the rotator control. Is there a switch that detect a rotator stall? nick

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RG213 @ 435 MHz
by Andrew Rich 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

I have 15 meters of RG213 @ 435 MHz. I worked out arounf 2dB loss. If I move to heliax, is it going to make that much of a difference ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rich VK4TEC vk4tec(a)people.net.au http://www.tech-software.net

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Re: Robert Mcqwier,
by Fred A Parker 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Sorry about the misspelling error. As I am vision impaired and when I make a typing error it is hard for me to catch it if the spellchecker does not pick it up. Fred

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One satellite or many?
by Patrick McGrane 15 Dec '07

15 Dec '07

Greetings from Patrick N2OEQ Sorry to see so much disagreement over future satellites. Echo came close to the right idea for amsat. It was advertised as a high power satellite anyone with a home station could use. Thats why I joined up and made a meager donation towards the launch. If amsat thought outside the membership box and designed and built for great numbers of people, more people would donate and join! Instead, amsat makes it hard with uncommon operating bands and greater hardware requirements. If I can be constructive, amsat should design for simplicity of operation more than one satellite. Eagle would be good for those who insist on a technical challenge. P4 Payload should be designed for universal simplicity. Why not have both! Regarding the coverage afforded by P4, may I suggest the lowest frequency possible with gain dual band directional antennas deployed to the sides after launch much like P3E. That should provide semi-spherical coverage of the earth or about half the globe. On another note, last august I corresponded with NOAA suggesting or asking if they could add an amateur payload to one of their satellites as they are a prolific satellite builder. The idea was forwarded to others there so keep your hopes up for another possibility. It seemed plausible since noaa nws has an existing relationship with amateurs regarding weather conditions. Think in terms of expanding the satellite hobby, not making it a small exclusive aspect of the hobby. Go P4!!! I was psyched when I heard about it. Good YOB men ( and women ) Take care all, pat

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A0-7 ?????
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

Hello Iwas just on AO-7 when at 0147Z it just seemed to quit. I looked outside and the antenna was still there. Anyone else hear the same or do I have a problem. 73 Bob W7LRD Seattle

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One satellite or many?
by Fred A Parker 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

I second your motion. Fred

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Satellite Antenna
by Lisandro M. Arends 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

W7LRD can you send me the plans? Thank you p43l(a)arubanet.com Lisandro P43L

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Re: Satellite Antennae
by John Marranca, Jr 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

Sorry. I messed up your name. Andrew. Jobe well done! -- _______________________________ John Marranca, Jr PBX Technician/Shop Steward CWA Local 1122 BN Systems, Inc Orchard Park, NY (716)972-2006

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Re: Satellite Antennae
by John Marranca, Jr 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

Rich: Excellent job, for sure! Thank you for the diversion from the division. Please send me the plans for the Quadrifilar Helix! Cheers! John KB2HSH -- _______________________________ John Marranca, Jr PBX Technician/Shop Steward CWA Local 1122 BN Systems, Inc Orchard Park, NY (716)972-2006

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RHCP LHCP
by Andrew Rich 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

Building a helix, the last one I did was LHCP Begs me to ask the question. What are the CP birds RHCP LHCP ? Should I favour one over the other ? Makes a big diff with the linear ones. Cheers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rich VK4TEC vk4tec(a)people.net.au http://www.tech-software.net

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Working ANDE and ISS 2 hops
by Robert Bruninga 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

Just noticed that ISS is leading ANDE by about half-a-footprint. And since ANDE is going faster, that means the next few orbits this afternoon could possibly support dual hops when they are very close. Time now is 2100z on Friday. ANDE is going so fast, that it will pass ISS and be out of conjuncion in just 4 to 6 hours or so.. Bob, WB4APR

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Amateur Satellite Afficienados
by Dave Guimont 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

What in the world is happening to some radio amateurs interested in amateur satellite radio?? Most of the "dial-ogres" I see on the bb, I never hear on the air...I do a lot of listening, mostly receive antenna comparisons...Come on guys and gals, use what we've got.... Sort of reminiscent of when I could first afford my first FM HT, had to buy (or grind) crystals to change frequency... I was in the San Rafael,CA area, anxious to try it out so I called "CQ de wb6llo". The prompt response was "you are not supposed to call CQ on this frequency, just say listening!" I responded with a "sorry 'bout dat", and asked if the requirement to identify your station had also changed!!! NO RESPONSE *************** HAS SOMETHING CHANGED IN HAM RADIO?? I don't think so... Have a question?? ASK Have a comment?? EXPRESS IT See a baiter?? Most of us have delete keys.. These constant recriminations?? INDESCRIBABLE Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to ALL and your families... Dave wb6ll0 Leanore ka6ucd 73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1(a)san.rr.com Disagree: I learn.... Pulling for P3E...

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