January 2008 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

Six Amateur Radio Satellites to Launch in March
by Trevor 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

It looks like they'll be six Amateur Radio satellites launching in March including Delfi-C3, see http://www.uk.amsat.org/ 73 Trevor M5AKA __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Six Amateur Radio Satellites to Launch in March
by Robert Turlington 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

I follow with interest the future launch of so called Amateur Radio Satellites where in fact Delfi-C3 is probably the only one to carry a true Amateur radio payload the others , so far as I am concerned, just happen to use frequencies in the Amateur bands. It looks good on paper when we can say look at all these satellites on Amateur frequencies but this begs the question what is the true definition of an AMATEUR RADIO SATELLITE??? Regards Robert G8ATE > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:15:54 +0000> From: m5aka(a)yahoo.co.uk> To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> Subject: [amsat-bb] Six Amateur Radio Satellites to Launch in March> > It looks like they'll be six Amateur Radio satellites launching in March> including Delfi-C3, see > > http://www.uk.amsat.org/ > > 73 Trevor M5AKA> > > > __________________________________________________________> Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com> > _______________________________________________> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _________________________________________________________________ Free games, great prizes - get gaming at Gamesbox. http://www.searchgamesbox.com

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Re: Six Amateur Radio Satellites to Launch in March
by Bruce Robertson 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bruce Robertson <ve9qrp(a)gmail.com> Date: Jan 16, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: [SPAM] Six Amateur Radio Satellites to Launch in March To: David - M0ZLB <m0zlb(a)btinternet.com> David (and JoAnne): Cubesats seem regularly to elicit a kind of nostalgic sadness amount some of us, of which I consider your letter a representation. Like you, I take great pleasure in working other amateurs on voice or CW using satellites equipped for such operations; like you, I'm a bit in mourning for FO-29. However, I respectfully suggest that there might be a more hopeful, and ultimately more enjoyable, response to the current situation in LEO. I hope you don't mind me engaging these issues on the list in the hopes of fostering understanding in our corner of the hobby. I think this sadness is based in three ideas commonly held about cubesats which I would like to dispell. The first is a sense that we have declining prospects for linear communications in LEO if the number of prospective digital or one-way birds far exceeds the number of linear ones. Now, with the growing popularity of cubesat projects, it is clearly the case that a whole whack of digital and one-way digital birds are going up. But given that our bands are not being congested by them, this does nothing to reduce the number of linear project. In fact, we have a healthy roster of up-coming linear projects: KiwiSat, and the Chinese CAS-1 http://www.southgatearc.org/news/october2007/chinese_amateur_radio_satellit… for example.The Indians are talking about a second Hamsat. There should be much fun to be had in this area in the future. I'm not sure if any of these have prospects for a higher orbit like FO-29, but under the conditions as JoAnne outlined them, this has nothing to do with if or if not the cubesats fly. The second misconception is that a typical cubesat's mission is somehow tangential to the real purpose of the amateur satellite service. However much I would like each and every one of this cubes to carry a linear transponder -- because I like chatting with other hams through orbiting satellites -- I can't help but conclude that the Cubesats are doing very important work. Imagine telling the builders of OSCAR-1 that they're bird is not in the Amateur Service! Imagine telling them that in 50 years' time not only would there be a clutch of communications satellites for hams, but also university students around the world would collaborate with hams to operate birds that download pictures from orbit and conduct other experiments. Would they be disappointed? Or would they see these missions as wonderously fulfilling the promise of OSCAR-1? A third misconception is that digital operations (in which almost all cubesats participate) are difficult to undertake and also tangential to the amateur sat. service. Using radio to remotely control and communicate with a device that is orbiting the earth every 90 minutes from 100 miles up is a brilliant use of the radio service! Furthermore, it's pretty darn easy: 1200 bps AFSK can be read with a soundcard and a $99 HT; in fact, if you have a all-mode all-band radio, as cheap as the FT-817, the easiest bird to hear of all is LO-19, whose CW dialect booms in on my indoor quarter-wave whip. I can imagine that folks might think this is not exciting to do. I have found that regular telemetry collection can be very interesting and engaging, perhaps more like amateur astronomy than linear operations on the birds. If you want exciting, join the chat line in the days after a cubesat launch: teams of sleep-starved 20-somethings desperate for news of their Darlings in Space. Imagine the chance to be the first to report healthy telemetry from a new orbiting object. It really is a great time to participate, and it takes quite a bit of technical skill: I've come to admire Mineo's JE9PEL setup and that of Mike DK3WN as they routinely hear things first off the blocks. As for the current launch manifest, in fact, it can be argued that Delfi-C3 represents a remarkable benefit to linear operators that comes from the cubesat world. Rather than a disappointing singular example of a linear bird among the upcoming cubesats, it should, I believe, be taken as an example of what we have to gain from this new age of LEO building and launching. When before has the amateur service been effectively *given* a bird which will eventually be in linear service, with no appeal for launch or building costs? How can we ensure that others will do the same? We should shower the Delfi team with gratitude by giving them as much high-quality data as possible. After all, their research has direct bearing on our future work, too. But Delfi-C3's transponder is ground-breaking in another way: it pushes linear LEO satellites quite far down the cost/power curve. If this provides reliable comms. to those of us with modest az/el yagi setups, I think you will find other regional amateur teams jumping on the cubesat format for linear comms. at a very reasonable launch price (what, launch at $40,000 per cube?) Even more exciting is the prospect that university groups will team with AMSAT subgroups to make something like Delfi-C3: say, we hams will provide the comms for your digital mission, and then in a year we get a linear transponder. Based on the mission success of Delfi-C3, you can be assured that you'll get tons of data. Then there are amazingly clever ideas like Sat on a PCBoard and Dragonfly. Both of these ask the question, "how little power can we get away with in orbit, given the improving base stations?" Obviously this has gone far beyond a reply to David's letter. I hope it will be taken in the spirit it was written: as an encouragement toward excitement. Heraclitus said, a man never walks through the same river twice; similarly, we never will launch the same birds under the same circumstances. But with the right attitude the river is always beautiful and exciting, and so will be our hobby. 73, Bruce VE9QRP On Jan 16, 2008 8:23 AM, David - M0ZLB <m0zlb(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > Thanks for the links Bruce, I too couldn't find any frequency info after > Trevor's initial posting! > > Sadly I see that with the exception of Delfi, everything else is digital. > Surely it is imperative that we get more easy sats up there for the newbies > to cut their teeth on and then progress! With the loss of FO-29 to virtually > everyone out of the JA footprint, its becoming a specialised hobby - there > is a need to get back to basics here I would have thought! > > David > KG4ZLB > AMSAT UK > > > Bruce Robertson <ve9qrp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think what seems to be rubbish to you is directed at different > audiences: the local media, colleagues in the university and funding > organizations, for example, none of whom are interested in > frequencies. > > Happily, we hams have the summarizing website of Ralf Wallio, W0RPK, > http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/CubeSat.htm > > Frequency information is also available from IARU: > http://www.amsat.org.uk/iaru/ > > 73, Bruce > VE9QRP > > On Jan 16, 2008 6:54 AM, Andrew Rich wrote: > > I wish some of these sat launchers would put as much effort into their > > webpages as their satellites. > > > > Most don't list frequencies and seem to me to be a completer afterthought. > > > > I get frustrated searching page after page of just rubbish to turn up > > nothing. > > > > Enlighten me > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Andrew Rich VK4TEC > > vk4tec(a)people.net.au > > http://www.tech-software.net > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: amsat-bb-bounces(a)amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org]On > > Behalf Of Trevor > > Sent: Wednesday, 16 January 2008 6:16 AM > > To: AMSAT BB > > Subject: [SPAM] [amsat-bb] Six Amateur Radio Satellites to Launch in > > March > > Importance: Low > > > > > > It looks like they'll be six Amateur Radio satellites launching in March > > including Delfi-C3, see > > > > http://www.uk.amsat.org/ > > > > 73 Trevor M5AKA > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >

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by R.Haighton 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

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Observations From Norway.
by John Hackett 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

Hello folks, Linear satellites are getting a bit thin on the ground lately arn't they - and what with the (hopefully) temporary demise of AO-51 (a software reload) there's not much a satellite operator can do other than to make an appearance on AO-7 or VO-52. Therefore, I wrote the following 'missive' as a suggestion, so, instead of whinging, you can can get off your bum and chuck together a small interface for your FM handheld and try some QRP operating - you just might surprise yourself. While predominantly aimed at European operators I added this to the amsat-bb because there are a *LOT* of potential 'linear' folks among the FM operators "over there". Do please take the time to learn a little about power budgets and aerial gain etc. 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> .................................................................................................. OBSERVATIONS FROM NORWAY LA2QAA 14 January 2008 An experiment, As many of us are aware, the average age of Hams is creeping up and satellite operators are no exception - we're heading faster toward 'extinction' as opposed to distinction. The much debated 'no code' exam - (to encourage more younger amateurs) - has, IMHO - had the complete opposite effect. With MSN and SMS why bother with Amateur Radio? ... the answer would be ... to do something you *CAN'T* do on your pet computer. So what can be done to turn around the negative trend of this sad state of affairs?. I don't pretend to have all the answers ... however ... One possible solution is to attract more of the 'FM only' amateurs onto linear satellites, to explore other means of communication so that they're not 'stuck' with the boring 'single user' solution. The usual fly in the ointment excuse, here is ... "but I haven't got any gear capable of for example CW" ... which is of course an excuse that is as weak as 'hiss' with a capital P. It is perfectly feasible to modulate an FM signal by switching on and off the carrier ... some people have used the PTT button to achieve this but a more elegant solution is to feed a controlled CW signal directly into the microphone input of an FM ... A.K.A. MCW modulation. Ahh! ... anti-social behaviour you say, sending 'FM' on a linear satellite - due to the power budget, since FM is a 100% duty cycle mode ... BUT !!! ... if one were to QRP by 25% as well as increase the aerial efficiency by 25% - (or any permutation giving the same results) - one would *NOT* be 'hogging' any more of the available transponder power than one normally would on a linear satellite. Remember, the difference between a satellite signal at the horizon and at TCA ( time of closest approach) - is quite dramatic ... (not that many people bother to regulate their power for ... "enough to do the job" ... or, as Bill used to say ... "Tis' vain to do with more, that which can be done with less". ("Bill" = William of Occam 1347). Regular users of AO-7 will be aware that while activity has increased this last 12 months in the afternoon and evening passes, the morning passes are still for all intents and purposes devoid of any signal at all. The increased use of AO-7 is most likely due to a lack of other 'linear' satellites, VO-52's apparent lack of activity is most probably due to the low orbit which results in an increased Doppler rate and smaller footprint. AO-7 does provide for 6500km footprints on a daily basis. Due to above "waffling" ... I intend to conduct a few QRP FM experiments on the mode-B morning passes. If you happen to hear an AO-7 'woodpecker' you might like to try switching to FM for a moment to see if you can hear some CW. As long as you keep your power low ... (LIMA - OSCAR - WHISKEY folks) ... QRP PLEASE ... you signal won't be any more detrimental than a CW or SSB one. Of course, you *WILL* have to take the bananas out of your ears and use them as they were intended ... to listen !!!!!. 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org>

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WD9EWK from DM32/DM42 via AO-51, 16 January
by Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

Hi! For this evening, I was originally planning a quick drive south of Phoenix to a location on the DM42/DM43 boundary for the 0235-0250 UTC AO-51 pass: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=33+n+11… I did this once recently, and knew there might be some interest in DM42. This pass was going to be a very nice pass for Arizona, where the satellite would have a maximum elevation of 89 degrees for that location on the DM42/DM43 boundary. Once I made it to that spot and saw I had a lot of time to spare, I quickly looked at my GPS receiver's map and decided to go to a different location for the pass. I ended up going a bit to the west, and parked on the DM32/DM42 boundary: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=32+52.7… This location is along Arizona route 84 west of Stanfield AZ in Pinal County, between Phoenix and Tucson near two freeways (west of I-10, north of I-8). Specifically, in grids DM32xv and DM42av, or 32.8793 N 112.0 W per my GPS receiver. Once I got to the spot and assembled my portable station, (IC-2720H and Arrow Antennas handheld Yagi - the same setup I just used on 12 January for a hamfest demonstration), I waited for the satellite to appear. I could hear it within 30 seconds, and it was strong! One problem appeared quickly... I could not hear myself through the satellite. After a couple of minutes of trying unsuccessfully, I changed radios. I went to my trusty IC-W32A handheld, and tried again. Still, nothing! I could not hear myself, and nobody else could hear me. At this point, 6 minutes into the 15-minute pass, I am getting frustrated in the middle of the desert. I make another change, to a Maldol AH-510R telescoping whip on the IC-W32A. I could hear the satellite just fine, as at this point it is almost directly overhead at the middle of the pass... and I was finally heard through the satellite! >From this point on, I was able to make 11 quick contacts in the next 8 minutes. I worked a couple of Mexican stations, one guy who saw my hamfest demo last weekend (he was in Tempe AZ, about 45 miles north of my location), and others sprinkled across the USA. It was really nice to hear AO-51 on after its recent problem, and it was very strong! I still need to take a close look at my Yagi. I am hoping the problems with the VHF elements are only related to improper assembly in the dark. I tested the IC-2720H on local 2m repeaters around Phoenix on my return to the city, and it worked fine. I had my Elk Antennas 2m/70cm log periodic in the back of my car, but to assemble that during a pass already in progress would have killed the remaining time I had. At least I was able to get on the air and operate from the 7th different Arizona grid via satellite since I caught this "bug" in late 2005 (DM32, DM33, DM34, DM42, DM43, DM44, DM45). 73! Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK - back home in Phoenix AZ http://www.wd9ewk.net/

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AO-51
by k3szh＠netzero.net 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

Just info worked David G1OCN at 21:48 utc.He was solid as a rock and yes we had a short qso no other stations heard, my elevation was only 1 deg. 73 Joe K3SZH AMSAT 3788 _____________________________________________________________ Click now to save big on brand name luggage. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tn9YYew10wCmJLyJQBCpE…

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Re: More Eclipse Questions
by Gould Smith 16 Jan '08

16 Jan '08

Hello John, You are correct that heating is our main concern during no eclipse. We discussed different strageties last fall like TX off to not generate heat, and TX on as high as possible to use the sunlight that is converted to electricity. What isn't used is converted to heat. We decided that the best approach was to use as much energy as possible. When the satellite software crashed Sunday we were able to see the effect of no TX. Battery 1 temperature got 41/42 degreees C, not a good situation. Battery 1 is the only battery we have a temperature sensor on. We kept high TX power (2.28W) on TXA as soon as we recovered command and by the end of one orbit the temperature of Batt 1 had come down to 36 deg C. It is now running 33-34 deg C. Over the last year it has oscillated between 18 - 24 deg most of the time (there were exceptions). We had a number of people doing thermal modeling (like Dick Jansson) and his 30 degree C predictions are on the mark. I did a paper for the 2007 Symposium on the AO-51 power system and talked about these issues. The main chassis is hanging around 30 deg C when we have the TX running enough to keep the low battery voltage above 1.2V. The batteries don't work as well at 30 deg C, so we want to keep their low voltage above a minimum. Everything is looking well so far and we are getting consistent data, for a fixed total transmitter current setting. I will be uploading the 2008 telemetry data to an ftp site later tonight. There will be raw data, csv (comma separated variable) format after the conversion equations and some Excel data with graphs. http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ftp/telemetry/ao51/ Hope this helps. 73, Gould, WA4SXM ----- Original Message ----- From: John Henderson To: gouldsmi(a)bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: More Eclipse Questions Gould, I have been following the threads on the AO-51 issues and I still do not quite understand the problem of " no eclipse". It seems to me the other side of the coin would be the problem from a power stand point. The " No eclipse" would be an overheating problem and I assume the systems are in place to avoid overcharging the batteries. I am confused on this issue. If you have the time, maybe you could clear this up for me. Best regards, John John Henderson N4NAB AMSAT Area Coordinator NC 212 Bayside Drive Cape Carteret, NC 28584 252-725-2744 n4nab(a)amsat.org http://www.amsat.org/

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LVB tracker display problem
by Fer IW1DTU 15 Jan '08

15 Jan '08

Hello Wondering if someone can help. I just finish to build an LVB tracker for a friend of mine. All works fine with NOVA but during a satellite pass the display stuck as in the picture: http://it.geocities.com/supertrackmoon/lvb_display.jpg All other functions are OK and the tracker is still tracking the satellite. A quick restart (power off / power on) and display works again but after some minutes it is again stuck. It seems just only a display problem. Same behavior with other satellites passes. I built a couple of LVB units and I have been using an LVB tracker with NOVA for years without problems. Any ideas ? Fer IW1DTU

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A question about two radio operation and doppler correction
by Michael A. Tondee 15 Jan '08

15 Jan '08

I'm in the market for a new or used satellite radio so I can get back into the swing of things and Ive explored several avenues including all the popular sat only or sat/HF combination rigs. I have nothing now really now so i'd like Hf capability as well. The money I was expecting for my new radio venture hasn't appeared as quickly as I would have liked so I've been researching a lot of ways to "skin the proverbial cat" so to speak. One of the first approaches I thought of was a two radio setup to allow full duplex operation with SatPc32. My plan was to accquire a couple of Yaesu FT-857's or 897's for this purpose.Unfortunately I've been told by several people and Erich also confirmed for me, on his FT-817 at least, that the radio will not allow frequency changes while transmitting. I know that these rigs are not true sat radio's per se but this seems odd to me. At any rate, in my mind, this would seriously affect the systems ability to carry out true doppler correction. Am I correct in this assumption or would it be sufficient for the tracking program to only update the TX in between transmissions? The only reason I've considered this approach is that it might be easier for me to buy one rig now and another a few months from now. I have a 2m FM which would allow me full duplex operation on the FM birds but later down the line after purchase of a second rig I would be able to go to the linear sats. I'm looking at true sat radios but this issue has been somewhat gnawing at me and I'd like to rule out the dual radio approach before continuing further in my deliberations. Thanks and 73, Michael, W4HIJ AMSAT # 36017

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