February 2008 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

Re: FW: Oh - my - God - (AO-7 uplink power).
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

John/etc To requalify- This is my capability! I use only the exciter IC-451 1-8W. I am acutely aware of the sensitivity of AO-7. However when attempting work footprint edge to footprint edge, I did run some power momentarily to find my down link. Yes John I have read all the available information regarding the history and operation of AO-7. I trust you will take the liberty to CC this email to the EU AMSAT reflector. I should have reread my initial post to the bb, as the context is not correct. My apologies to all for the justifyable outrage this has caused. I conciously make every effort to follow all the rules written and unwritten. -- 73 Bob W7LRD AMSAT member 28498 Seattle -------------- Original message -------------- From: john hackett <la2qaa(a)hotmail.com> > > For those that don't understand power budgets on satellites - especially ailing > ones - *PLEASE* make the effort to read up on the subject - so you can honestly > say "your" operating *DIDN'T* shorten a particular satellites life ... or ... > you were *NOT* being an alligator ... (all mouth and no ears) ... and using more > than your fair share of the available power. > > Remember ... there are potentially many !! users on AO-7 and the available power > is distributed among them ... a LINEAR transponder isd *NOT* like an FM > transponder. > > There is an excuse for simply "not knowing" - but there is no !! excuse for > knowing and ignoring the facts - that's just plain anti-social. > > If you're not aware of it, do please !!! take the time to read up on the > subject. > > 73 John > > From: la2qaa(a)hotmail.com > To: w7lrd(a)comcast.net > CC: eu-amsat(a)yahoogroups.com; allan_gm1sxx(a)hotmail.com > Subject: Oh - my - God - (AO-7 uplink power). > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:41:04 +0100 > > > > > > > > > Oh - my - God!, > > >On 70cm I run about 80-100 watts to a 40 el cp > >yagi. I can pick up my down link when the sat > >is about 7 degrees. > > 73 Bob W7LRD That's not an AO-7 station Bob, it's an EME station. > > Did you not read the recommended operating proceedure for AO-7 > > > > 5 watts or less to a decent aerial is adequate. Personally, I have *NEVER* used > more than 5 watts to a homebrew 6 element yagi but this gave me 3rd place > worldwide - (currently 5th) - when I was more active. > > I have taken the liberty of CC'ing part of your mail to the EU amsat reflector > because like me - they won't believe! the power you're using ... 100 watts to 40 > elements is several kilowatts !! EIRP. > > I would respectfully suggest you do some research about *WHY* one should > maintain a reasonable power budget when operating satellites ... afterwards - > (hopefully) - you'll see what I mean. > > AO-7 is not in the best of health at at the best of times but hitting it with so > much uplink power is most certainly not going to prolong it's life. > > It is also thoroughly recommended to use a "receiver" with an aerial attached - > though with your uplink power - (if it's true) - > a wet shoelace ought to suffice. > > NB. > > You did say 40 elements ... did you mean 4 ???. > > 73 John. > ................................................................................ > ...... > > > From: w7lrd(a)comcast.net > > To: AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org > > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:58:29 +0000 > > Subject: [amsat-bb] antenna attenuation > > > > Hello > > Has anyone encountered this situation- My satellite antennas are about 15 > feet off the ground. approximatly 18 feet away at that height is the base of a > 25 foot tripod that holds my HF quad. When aiming at a certain direction about > 15-20 degrees I can't seem to get through to AO-7. I am trying to connect with > OH8MBN. Other directions I can usually hear my downlink almost down to the > horizon. On 70cm I run about 80-100 watts to a 40 el cp yagi. I can pick up my > down link when the sat is about 7 degrees. > > 73 Bob W7LRD > > Seattle > > > > -- > > "if this were easy, everyone would be doing it" > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- 73 Bob W7LRD AMSAT member 28498 Seattle

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Re: Which Handheld...
by Clint Bradford 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

>>...which handheld do you use or which handheld is "the best" for sats. It must be full duplex. There are no new full-duplex HTs on the amateur market. The Icom IC- W32a was the last nit to have true full-duplex. Knowing that, the feature that is needed in an HT is the ability to RX on one band, and TX on another. So you have dual-band, dual receive HTs (TH-F6a from Kenwood...user un-friendly VX-7R from Yaesu) that can do it - obviously. I overlook the Kenwood TH=D7A(g) because it is a battery hog and much older technology than what is now avalable in amateur HTs. But there are also HTs that are dual-band, single-receive that work excellently. I show off the Yaesu FT-60R for my demos and sessions. 1,000 memories, strongest belt clip of any HT on the amateur market, built tough, 108-to-a-gig receive, easy to program...and, when using its optional AA dry cell case, you are working at FULL POWER! Unlike the TH-F6a - when you use its AA case, you're at 1/2 of one Watt. Al that in a radio for well under $200. See a picture of it in action in the December, '07 issue of CQ Magazine, where I am using the FT-60 with an Arrow antenna to wow an audience at a fair demo. Clint Bradford, K6LCS / KAF3359 909-241-7666 On Feb 1, 2008, at 1:10 AM, amsat-bb-request(a)amsat.org wrote: > I would like to know which handheld do you use or which > handheld is "the best" for sats. It must be full duplex. > Thanks in advance!

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Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 59
by Clint Bradford 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

...Interesting. If you turn off the TNC when not in use, and set power save, it is no different from any other radio I think. And nothing has changed in FM "technology" in 30 years... I don't understand your bias... My "bias" comes from knowing from first hand experience that the radio is NOT anywhere near as efficient with its energy consumption than more current (no pun intended) HTs. That fac has already been acknowledged ny another participant here, too. They used to ship with a SIX VOLT battery pack - PB-38 - which only allowed 2.5W VHF and 2.2W UHF ops out of the box. (Ebay buyers beware!!!!) But they now ship with a PB-39, offering 12VDC at 600 0r 650mAH and a full five Watts power output. More modern radios are offering full power output with 7.2V and much longer-lasting NiMH and Li-Ion battery packs. Owners (including myself) have "compensated" the TH-D7's poor original battery life with aftermarket NiMH packs and the like...But in responding to the original poster's inquiry (limited funds), I still believe I gave him some good information. But if one asks, "I need a TNC in an HT...APRS intrigues me..." - then the TH-D7a fits the bill. Clint Bradford, K6LCS / KAF3359 909-241-7666

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Explorer I
by Roy 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

If I'm not mistaken this is the 50th anniversary of the launch of Explorer I, the USA's first satellite put in orbit. I listened to the telemetry broadcast on 108 mHz and recorded it. The JPL had asked for the loan of any recordings made so I sent them out for their analysis. I received my original tapes back along with a supply of new reels of tape for use in making further recordings. JPL sent copies on to the Air Force Research Center at Cambridge. I later received letters from JPL and the Air Force Research Center describing the data they had recovered from the recordings relative to micrometeorite impacts and other items. It was a really exciting period for Amateur Radio. -- Roy -- W0SL

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Re: Which Handheld...
by Clint Bradford 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Chad, email me privately. I'll let you borrow an FT-60R for a month or so... Clint Bradford, K6LCS / KAF3359 clint(a)clintbradford.com 909-241-7666

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SPECIAL CONGRATULATIONS.
by John Hackett 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Special congratulations ought to be extended to JH3XCU/1 for soon to become the 8th station worldwide to attain 1000 points in the AO-7 log. 'Special' congratulations are in order because the station concerned has made this magnificent effort WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING A QSO. Quite an acheavement. Yes, I know it's an "activity" log but it does rather make a mockery of the log when you consider the stations that actually communicate with eachother. Likewise the stations that claim QSO points but log the transponder as *OFF* are not helping the general statistics page. The log page does have a link explaining how to correct incorrect entries - (the - "remember me next time" - checkbox needs to be checked). If you're going to bother to make an entry in the log, you might as well check that you've done it correctly - and if not, rectify it ... otherwise the log won't serve the purpose as it was designed for. 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org>

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Re: [ans] WSR-031 Weekly Satellite Report 031
by Keith N4ZQ 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Nice catch including the last minute ISS change of status !! Thanks for keeping the Weekly Satellite Report current... Great job.. Keith N4ZQ -- James French <w8iss(a)wideopenwest.com> wrote: This report is organized into FIVE parts. Part 1 (S1) - operational analog amateur satellites Part 2 (S2) - operational digital amateur satellites Part 3 (S3) - non - operational satellites Part 4 (S4) - proposed satellites Part 5 (S5) - deborbited/returned satellites SB SAT @ AMSAT W8ISS ANS-031.S1 WSR 031 Part 1 01/31/2008 _____________________________________________________________ Shop from a huge selection of customized stationery designs! Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tcf4O0LmBHiRGodqfRKbs…

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Delfi-C3 launch delayed
by Wouter Jan Ubbels 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Hi all, the launch of the NLS-4 cluster including Delfi-C3 has been delayed again, for now, it is scheduled for mid-april, we will update the mission status page as soon as possible, stay tuned! 73 Wouter Jan Ubbels PE4WJ

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Power budgets.
by John Hackett 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Hello Folks, For those that don't understand power budgets on satellites - especially ailing ones - *PLEASE* make the effort to read up on the subject - so you can honestly say "your" operating *DIDN'T* shorten a particular satellites life ... or ... you were *NOT* being an alligator ... (all mouth and no ears) ... and using more than your fair share of the available power. Remember ... there are potentially many !! users on AO-7 and the available power is distributed among them ... a LINEAR transponder isd *NOT* like an FM transponder. There is an excuse for simply "not knowing" - but there is no !! excuse for knowing and ignoring the facts - that's just plain anti-social. If you're not aware of it, do please !!! take the time to read up on the subject. 73 John <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> .................................................................................................. >On 70cm I run about 80-100 watts to a 40 el cp >yagi. I can pick up my down link when the sat >is about 7 degrees. 73 Bob W7LRD ................................................................................................... Oh - my - God!, That's not an AO-7 station Bob, it's an EME station. Did you not read the recommended operating proceedure for AO-7 <http://www.planetemily.com/ao7/ao7log.php> 5 watts or less to a decent aerial is adequate. Personally, I have *NEVER* used more than 5 watts to a homebrew 6 element yagi but this gave me 3rd place worldwide - (currently 5th) - when I was more active. I have taken the liberty of CC'ing part of your mail to the EU amsat reflector because like me - they won't believe! the power you're using ... 100 watts to 40 elements is several kilowatts !! EIRP. I would respectfully suggest you do some research about *WHY* one should maintain a reasonable power budget when operating satellites ... afterwards - (hopefully) - you'll see what I mean. AO-7 is not in the best of health at at the best of times but hitting it with so much uplink power is most certainly not going to prolong it's life. It is also thoroughly recommended to use a "receiver" with an aerial attached - though with your uplink power - (if it's true) - a wet shoelace ought to suffice. NB. You did say 40 elements ... did you mean 4 ???. 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> ...................................................................................... > From: w7lrd(a)comcast.net > To: AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:58:29 +0000 > Subject: [amsat-bb] antenna attenuation > > Hello > Has anyone encountered this situation- My satellite antennas are about 15 feet off the ground. approximatly 18 feet away at that height is the base of a 25 foot tripod that holds my HF quad. When aiming at a certain direction about 15-20 degrees I can't seem to get through to AO-7. I am trying to connect with OH8MBN. Other directions I can usually hear my downlink almost down to the horizon. On 70cm I run about 80-100 watts to a 40 el cp yagi. I can pick up my down link when the sat is about 7 degrees. > 73 Bob W7LRD > Seattle > > -- > "if this were easy, everyone would be doing it"

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Power budgets.
by John Hackett 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Hello folks, For those that don't understand power budgets on satellites - especially ailing ones - *PLEASE* make the effort to read up on the subject - so you can honestly say "your" operating *DIDN'T* shorten a particular satellites life ... or ... you were *NOT* being an alligator ... (all mouth and no ears) ... and using more than your fair share of the available power. Remember ... there are potentially many !! users on AO-7 and the available power is distributed among them ... a LINEAR transponder isd *NOT* like an FM transponder. There is an excuse for simply "not knowing" - but there is no !! excuse for knowing and ignoring the facts - that's just plain anti-social. If you're not aware of it, do please !!! take the time to read up on the subject. 73 John <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> From: la2qaa(a)hotmail.com To: w7lrd(a)comcast.net CC: eu-amsat(a)yahoogroups.com; allan_gm1sxx(a)hotmail.com Subject: Oh - my - God - (AO-7 uplink power). Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:41:04 +0100 ....................................................................................... Oh - my - God!, >On 70cm I run about 80-100 watts to a 40 el cp >yagi. I can pick up my down link when the sat >is about 7 degrees. 73 Bob W7LRD ......................................... Wow!, That's not an AO-7 satellite class station Bob, it's an EME station. Have you not read the recommended operating proceedure for AO-7 !!. <http://www.planetemily.com/ao7/ao7log.php> 5 watts or less to a decent aerial is adequate. Personally, I have *NEVER* used more than 5 watts to a homebrew 6 element yagi but this gave me 3rd place worldwide - (currently 5th) - when I was more active. I have taken the liberty of CC'ing part of your mail to the EU amsat reflector because like me - they won't believe! the power you're using ... 100 watts to 40 elements is several kilowatts !! EIRP. I would respectfully suggest you do some research about *WHY* one should maintain a reasonable power budget when operating satellites ... afterwards - (hopefully) - you'll see what I mean. AO-7 is not in the best of health at at the best of times but hitting it with so much uplink power is most certainly not going to prolong it's life. It is also thoroughly recommended to use a "receiver" with an aerial attached - though with your uplink power - (if it's true) - a wet shoelace ought to suffice. NB. You did say 40 elements ... did you mean 4 ???. 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> ...................................................................................... > From: w7lrd(a)comcast.net > To: AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:58:29 +0000 > Subject: [amsat-bb] antenna attenuation > > Hello > Has anyone encountered this situation- My satellite antennas are about 15 feet off the ground. approximatly 18 feet away at that height is the base of a 25 foot tripod that holds my HF quad. When aiming at a certain direction about 15-20 degrees I can't seem to get through to AO-7. I am trying to connect with OH8MBN. Other directions I can usually hear my downlink almost down to the horizon. On 70cm I run about 80-100 watts to a 40 el cp yagi. I can pick up my down link when the sat is about 7 degrees. > 73 Bob W7LRD > Seattle > > -- > "if this were easy, everyone would be doing it" > __________________________

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