July 2008 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

vanishing hams etc
by Mr Jeffrey L Ross 17 Jul '08

17 Jul '08

hi folks, fig i would get in on this one, at least say what feel and think about it, Im waiting with that one fellow till they die off, hi old fuds that is, some of them anyway,none of them like the shuttle! Won't even move up to the real world and have a shuttle launch net here. ( I tryed that once and they tryed to ban me from the local repeater) Just one or two fellows is all it takes to take the fun out of this hobbie. When I first went to get my license, the old fart said to me, What do you want? it was just the way he said it, mean. Ever since I had this feeling about some of the fellows there that I really don't want to know. I call them grumpy old men. Sure we need some young blood in our hobbie, and its going to take another way of gettting them there/here.. Tryed giving my station/time for the ares/races group, that did not turn out, to many Indian Chiefs and no one knows who is in charge. (station manager) And the people that are there have been the head honchos for twenty five years and things won't change. Or the new people that come are now placed in charge and they know less, let alone how it makes you feel, being there for years and someone new comes in and takes charge of you. We had field day and no one came to our booth. I wonder why. by the way not many for field day also, Listened to the skywarn net tonight, not many there no more also. I wonder why. I know why, Its the way people are acting/treating each other. So everyone needs to think about it, be nice and pay attention to that amateur code, make sure (others) have fun. And be nice. :) And I won't even mention the descrimination that I seen. Vanishing Hams, probley, maybe. but maybe not, if we see our mistakes and take heed. and tell others about them like i am here. kc8gkf just another middle age ham. looking here for another topic

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Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
by Daniel Schultz 17 Jul '08

17 Jul '08

Amsat is not a for-profit corporation with employees who take orders and follow directions from management. Amsat's management cannot order anyone to do anything. It is an all volunteer organization and an ego stroke is the only reward that people get for their hard work. It has always been well known that this sort of environment attracts the Type-A prima donnas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_donna ->"the term often signifies a vain, obnoxious and temperamental person who, although irritating, cannot be done without.") In a room full of such people, arguments and fights are not uncommon. It has always been this way in Amsat, but perhaps the rapid communications of the internet makes it more apparent now than it was in the past. This too will pass. As a volunteer organization, Amsat depends on people like you to step forward and do what needs to be done. If you think you can do a better job, then step up to the plate and do it. If you don't like the web site or the online store then come forward and build a better one. If you think you can run the organization better than the current management then run for elected office. If you do none of these things, at least stop complaining about the people who do. If you think P3E is the way to go, you are free to send your money to Amsat DL to fund P3E. (http://www.p3e-satellite.org/index.pl?lang=en_EN ) Do one of three things: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. Dan Schultz N8FGV

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Re: AMSAT NA
by G0MRF＠aol.com 17 Jul '08

17 Jul '08

In a message dated 16/07/2008 06:31:11 GMT Standard Time, kd6ozh(a)comcast.net writes: AMSAT-NA personnel issue, but aren't concerned that AMSAT-DL announced that they can't pay for the P3E launch. =================================================== No, the quote is that they can not afford the price given by Arianespace. That is not the same thing. You are exagerating the facts (again) David G0MRF

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Any Interest in ASMO
by D. Mynatt 17 Jul '08

17 Jul '08

Since my post, I've not seen a response or comment so I wonder if there any interest in working with ASMO folks? Be neat to be involved with a lunar satellite doing real work and having real data and imaging communications. We could help them by working with local colleges to build a series of ground stations. Dave

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AMSAT-UK Colloquium - UK MoonLITE Mission
by Trevor 16 Jul '08

16 Jul '08

Dr Rob Gowen will give the keynote speech "Science Penetrators for the UK MoonLITE mission" at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium. The 23rd AMSAT-UK International Space Colloquium will be held at the University of Surrey, Guildford, England from Friday 25th until Sunday 27th July. Dr Rob Gowen, Department of Space & Climate Physics (Mullard Space Science Laboratory, University College London and Coordinator of the UK Lunar Penetrator Consortium) will give the keynote speech on "Science Penetrators for the UK MoonLITE mission". MoonLITE will be the first ever UK lunar mission. The presentation by Dr Rob Gowen takes place at 2:30 pm on Friday 25th July in the University of Surrey Management Building lecture theatre. The Colloquium is open to all Radio Amateurs and SWL's. Either day passes or full packages comprising overnight accommodation and meals are available. An online booking service is available with PayPal, Visa and Master Card payments accepted. For further details see http://www.uk.amsat.org/Colloquium/ A site map showing location of the Management Building and the adjacent main car park and conference visitors parking can be seen at http://www.uk.amsat.org/images/stories/uosmap6.jpg Travel information: http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/23/52/ AMSAT-UK Tel: +44 (0)1258 453959 Email: g3wgm(a)amsat.org ---- Missile practice for Moon mission http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7438270.stm Britain's Moon shot takes shape http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7433074.stm 73 Trevor M5AKA ---- __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

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Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
by Ken Ernandes 16 Jul '08

16 Jul '08

Rick - I think you're being very gracious. At the risk of being acccused of making personal attacks, I will say that my personal opinion/perception is that there are certain individuals who are chronic complainers. I would be curious as to how many of those make half as much effort toward being part of a solution as they spend with unproductive complaining. I have a personal list of those I believe have nothing better to do than complain and are rarely if ever part of a constructive solution. I would go so far as to suspect some of these individulas do not even wish AMSAT-NA to succeed. I delete BB-directed messages from such individuals without ever reading them. Sorry, but that's just the way it is... 73, Ken Ernandes N2WWD -----Original Message----- >From: "Rick Hambly (W2GPS)" <w2gps(a)cnssys.com> >Sent: Jul 14, 2008 2:59 PM >To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org >Cc: eu-amsat(a)yahoogroups.com >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! > >Luc, > >I am glad you care enough about AMSAT's future to pay attention to events as >they unfold. It appears that you have misinterpreted recent events, however. >AMSAT's engineering department is undergoing a reorganization that we hope >will allow us to better focus on the results our members have been looking >for and improve cooperation among the development teams. There is nothing >sinister going on at all. > >AMSAT members will be getting more detailed information through the Journal >and the engineering mailing lists in the coming days and weeks. > >Rick >W2GPS >AMSAT LM2232 > >-----Original Message----- >From: amsat-bb-bounces(a)amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On >Behalf Of Luc Leblanc >Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:22 AM >To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org >Cc: eu-amsat(a)yahoogroups.com >Subject: [amsat-bb] NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! > > >As usual AMSAT-NA is keeping the crowds unaware and uninformed on AMSAT-BB >and on purpose...NAMASTE and EAGLE project are from my point of >view literally dead! For those who are still believing on a HEO made by >AMSAT-NA forget it they "HALTED" NAMASTE et fired out the EAGLE >team leaders > >Here is some e-mails exchange... > >It seems obvious now that AMSAT-NA projects are collapsing NAMASTE is dead >and EAGLE PROBABLY WILL BE HALTED TOO????? >SEE BELOW THE FULL EXCHANGE AND PLEASE READ THE THREADS ON: >http://amsat.org/pipermail/namaste-dev/2008-July/thread.html > >Here is an excerpt moving around the "Super duper" AMSAT-NA president on the >NAMSATE reflector > >> At this time, all group leaders on the Eagle project >> are relieved of their leadership duties. > >... > > >_______________________________________________ >Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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Doppler Frequency Device Control
by Luciano G Nachif 16 Jul '08

16 Jul '08

Hi guys, If I'm not mistaken, several years ago, I read an article which shows how to build an electronic device to run a pair of Yaesu, Kenwood or Icom VHF/UHF rigs to compensate for doppler effect on inverting or non inverting transponders. Could anyone guide me back to that, please? I thank you in advance. 73, Luciano PT9KK

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Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 349
by Darin Cowan 16 Jul '08

16 Jul '08

>>A few years ago at the 2002 AMSAT meeting in Ft. Worth, Tony, >>AA2TX was giving a talk on his antennas made from cardboard >>boxes and aluminum foil. There was a grade school class in >>attendance with their teacher. When the talk was over, the >>kids swarmed over the boxes and aluminum foil to make >>antennas with great enthusiasm. Very inspiring -- this is >>the kind of reaching out we need. >> >>Instead of our self serving pursuit of DXCC, WAS, VUCC, WAC >>and others, maybe the ARRL needs to sponsor an award for >>bringing new Hams into the community. Otherwise, someday, >>no one will remember what those letters even stood for. Believe me, at 43 years old, I'm acutely aware of two facts: 1. I'm relatively young for a radio amateur; and 2. I'm not exactly young. Amateur radio has a few things going against it as far as "young" people are concerned, and some of these things cannot be easily solved by regulation changes, mentoring, etc. First and foremost is that amateur radio is a technical hobby and is consequently viewed by young people (hereafter taken to mean "people under 25") as nerdy, uncool, etc. I say with some confidence that very few people who currently hold amateur radio licences were members of the popular crowd in high school or university. Is that silly? Perhaps... but it's also true. Young people have a lot of demands on their time, and being "cool" is as important now as it ever was, maybe more so. The result is that amateur radio is going to appeal to a comparatively small number of young people from the get-go. I am not sure how or if this perception can be overcome. Second, advancing technology makes the hobby less useful than it once was. If you wanted to chat with people in far away lands back in 1979 (when I first started SWL), then amateur radio was probably just about the only way to do it. If you want to do that today, you need only download any of a multitude of simple computer programs and have at it, with no technical skill, no licence and little or no cost. People getting into amateur radio now will be doing it, in my opinion, purely for a love of radio or tinkering rather than what I perceive to have been a large palette of reasons in decades gone by. This issue can probably be overcome by raising the profile of amateur radio as a hobby with a modern flavour. Certainly amateur radio satellite and keyboarding modes for amateur radio help out a lot. No offence to morse code afficiondos, but the vast majority of the kids I see (I volunteer at the Canada Science and Tech museum) think of morse code as a quaint reminder of days past... interesting only as far as "yeah, my grampa used to do that, neat" but not interesting enough to be something they'd want to do. Every time someone tries to raise the importance of morse code in amateur radio, I guarantee it scares away another potential young licencee who sees amateur radio as old-fashioned and backward. On the other hand, get a kid talking on a satellite to someone across the continent (or ocean, from here) and they'll remember that for a LONG time. Get a kid chatting with someone around the world by keyboard using Olivia or PSK31 and they can relate instantly because they're used to instant messaging. Seriously, as radio amateurs we should really downplay morse code outside our licenced ranks. People who want to keep code alive will do so, but very few people are attracted to this hobby by morse code and I believe a great many people are repelled by a perception that if you can't do code, you're not a "real" radio amateur. Third, and this also can't be overcome by mentoring etc., is that amateur radio has space and financial requirements that are beyond most young people. Everyone on this list go look at your stuff right now and add up what it cost in terms of currency as well as indoor and outdoor space. Sure, you *CAN* get into amateur radio with a used 2m HT picked up in Dayton for $100. But let's face it the really cool stuff requires more sophisticated (read: expensive) equipment, usually with antenna systems that require space and more money. When you're a teen or a young person just starting a family, it's a discretionary expense that is probably just not high on your list. Only when you've started to get a few grey hairs (if you have any hairs left) is it likely you'll be in a comfortable position to invest in the "good" stuff. This is the reason, in my opinion, that radio amateurs largely seem to be no younger than about 35 or so. It simply takes that long to get in a position to really pursue parts of this hobby. That's my spin on it. And I'll be back in the museum on Saturday showing off amateur radio satellites to the kids :) 73 de VE3OIJ Darin

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Amsat-BB
by Bauer, Frank H. (GSFC-590.0) 16 Jul '08

16 Jul '08

All, I have and continue to be proud of this organization. We are not a perfect organization. Just a few volunteer. And they do the best job that they can. I know that I personally can only do so much. I do have a very demanding job and a family that needs my attention. But I think that I and the many volunteers that support the ARISS activity have done a fantsatic job in supporting AMSAT. And amateur radio in general. We are doing good work and share a positive attitude as we know we are making a difference. I KNOW that there is an active effort within AMSAT-NA to bring HEO and LEO amateur radio satellites to fruitition. I can see it happening, despite the negative rhetoric and severe comments that exist on this BB. For those that are continuing to support the AMSAT mission...I tip my hat. I have been in the space business for 33 years. At one point in my career I went a LONG time without launching a specific satellite. (7 years!) This happens to NASA. This happens to ESA and the other space agencies. And this is currently happening to AMSAT. So....keep the faith and VOLUNTEER. For those naysayers out there....those that like to NOT volunteer and/or enjoy throwing stones...I wish you would change your attitude. Or move to another BB. Help, not hurt. As all I see you want to do is tear down this organization. And I must say that it is easy to tear down an organization. And it is very hard to build one up....to volunteer...to make GOOD THINGS happen. I received this URL today. Read number 16. http://www.walletpop.com/specials/top-25-things-vanishing-from-america?i cid=100214839x1205495530x1200282778 This hobby can continue. But only if we build it up through positive actions. And not tear it down through venom and unkind words. Think about it....as YOU can make that difference. 73, Frank H. Bauer, KA3HDO AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs

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Is amsat-bb fun for anyone?
by Mark Vandewettering 16 Jul '08

16 Jul '08

Honestly, I'm completely disgusted with amsat-bb. Is anyone having any fun at all out there? You people seem resolutely determined to complain about the current state of amateur satellites, without provocation, and with no idea of how fix anything. Or even any idea how to have fun using what few satellites we do have. If someone were interested in getting into satellite operation on VO-52 or even AO-51, I'd actively _discourage_ them from joining this cesspool of negativity. And less the AMSAT-NA think I'm giving them a pass, what the hell is up with you people? The store, down for months. Consistently out of date info on the website. Promises that updates will be made via the Amsat Journal or at conferences. EARTH TO AMSAT BOARD: THIS IS THE AGE OF THE INTERNET. It isn't good enough to publish summary information on paper a couple of times a year. People are frustrated because to all appearances, you aren't being honest with them, and you certainly aren't being timely. I even tried joining the namaste-dev list to combat the lack of any serious, technically relevant development going on, to see if a skilled programmer like myself could reasonably contribute anything to the ongoing efforts. I lurked for a month or two, and what I observed did not thrill me with confidence. I see a group mired in requirements negotiation, bickering, and in the last few weeks, completely imploding. Bleh. Okay, that's enough complaining. Here is some food for thought: 1. It seems to me that the groundstation development is completely turned on its head. The goal is to create a ground station design which is both a) reasonably inexpensive and b) reproducible enough to be constructed by large numbers of hams. So, begin there by actually (and this will seem really radical) DESIGNING AND BUILDING SOME HARDWARE. It seems to me that the majority of the design is actually software. Software is difficult to design, but has a number of other offsetting qualities. It's easy to modify and cheap to redistribute, so it makes some sense to pursue it later. Additionally, it allows the hardware design to be picked up and extended by others with parallel interest, gaining momentum from them. Perhaps the TAPR software defined radio platform with suitable up/down converters is a good place to start. Or GNU radio. So, let's get those into the hands of several hundred hams, and start working. Volunteers don't work well in the abstract in my experience, so let's make the development process as concrete as possible to get them involved. Let's work to get costs down. Let's get basic software freely available under open source. Leverage work from VHF, microwave and packet groups. If we can't do everything, then let's at least do something. 2. Milestones. We need tangible milestones. It's far easier to find the status of Kiwisat (very cool, incidently) than it is for Eagle. In part this is because the kiwisat team seems to take their contributors seriously, and likes to keep them informed to keep morale high and to show progress. What milestones have been passed in the Eagle design and construction? Can anyone find that out without knowing somebody personally? 3. We've received notice from AMSAT-DL that they don't have enough money to launch P3E. Well, how much do they need? How much are they short? If they are off by 20%, or even 50%, then I suspect fundraising could conceivably close that gap. If they are off by 80%, then I think we have to honestly admit that until competition makes boosts to HEO more economical, we've been priced out of the game for now. That'd be a tough thing to swallow, but pretending that we are going to have launch opportunities which do not exist isn't improving anyone's morale, especially as years go by and nothing gets done. 4. AMSAT needs to find some good volunteers, and importantly, it needs to reject some bad volunteers. Not everyone who offers to help is helping. On the other hand, not all criticism is complaining. Okay, I'm late for my day job. I haven't been licensed for 40 years, so I still have one. Mark KF6KYI

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