October 2009 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

Launch coverage!
by David - KG4ZLB 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

I was intrigued yesterday to see in capsule footage of the launch of the Soyuz (with the "Space Clown") from Russia! Does anyone know if NASA plans to broadcast footage from inside the Shuttle, maybe a split screen showing the traditional launch and the other side showing the crew during lift off? Thanks -- David KG4ZLB www.kg4zlb.com

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On the road to EL79
by w6zkh＠comcast.net 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

Leaving EM70 this morning for EL79 territory around Panama City for possible 2 days before heading west. I will try on get on at least 1 of the 3 FM birds during those 2 days . Looking at the Grid Map, seems EL79 has pretty small land mass, so probably not alot of activity that way. Again, if you want a QSL to confirm, just mail direct to homebase address in CA, or eQSL.cc and I will confirm. John W6ZKH

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On the Air from Iceland (Tom, TF/N2YTF)
by Daniel "Nick" Kucij 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

Posted by Nick, KB1RVT on behalf of Tom, N2YTF: Greetings to all, I would like to let anyone who is interested in working Iceland know that from Sept. 28 through Oct. 5th 2009 I will be operating every daytime/evening FM satellite pass I can between 10:00 and 01:00 UTC from Iceland. Please keep in mind that the weather in Iceland can be pretty extreme, and my primary reason for being here with my wife is to tour, so I will not be on every pass, but most days I will work many passes. Equipment on this end is a 3w TH-D7AG with Arrow Antenna and headset for full duplex work. I am updating my satellite log daily on my QRZ page. The log includes both North America and Europe so far... The volcanic ground along with the almost complete lack of trees (and buildings outside of Reykjavik) make working the low passes easy, so do not be discouraged if you see a low pass listed for Iceland...you just may work me anyway. I have made several QSOs on passes under 4 degrees maximum elevation. If you are in an arctic location or africa and think you have a shot at working me, I would be specifically interested in working you and would ask that you email me directly for a sked. Everyone else, please just look for me on the birds....I am on quite abit. 73 to all, Tom-TF/N2YTF n2ytf(a)arrl.net

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FW: OFF grid solar system
by Thomas McGrane 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

I am reposting the original message for your review because bruninga changed my meaning by taking words out of context. Sorry about the repost but I hate having my work corrupted. thanks and go solar, pat >------- Original Message ------- >From : Thomas McGrane[mailto:n2oeq@aceweb.com] >Sent : 10/2/2009 10:39:56 PM >To : amsat-bb(a)amsat.org >Cc : >Subject : FW: OFF grid solar system > >The grid is vulnerable as a system. We have to stop always thinking about being connected to or relying on the utility grid. Think in terms of building an independant 12 volt DC system (low voltage) for the average dwelling to operate independant of the grid by charging batteries from solar or wind and utilizing the energy real time or later from the batteries. It seems everyone has visions of large expensive rooftop systems but starting small and building up over time will reduce the utility bill by substitution. We need to be energy independant on a small scale as well as looking at the big picture. Small systems can easily run lights, TV’s, radios, even a small refridgerator for essentials. You would still need the grid power for large loads like heat, large refridgerators, etc but you can have a seperate system to rely on if you suffer some calamity. With the advent of the “smart” grid, you dont want to be connected to the grid. Remember, the wires are antennas as well as conducting electricity. We owe our reliance on a large electrical system to Nickolai Tesla who developed high voltage alternating current power systems that won out over Thomas Edisons Direct Current system around the turn of the last century. The idea was to minmize power loss over long distances. Therefore we should all promote local or household Low voltage DC solar or wind systems to reduce the use of grid power and for much better reliability. Through the years I have built a very economical system comprised of several solar panels with a capacity of about 130 watts that automatically charge 6 large deep cycle and regular batteries from which I operate some radios , lights and in the event of loss of utility power, a small refridgerator. I also have a couple of cheap store bought DC to AC inverters if I need to operate an AC device, Solar panels have come down in price dramatically and production capabity is expanding, so start now. Think independant and start small instead of suffering mega system price hesitance. A world of 12 volt dc devices are available from hardware, marine, automotive and internet sources. You just have to start. Be the first on your block to confuse the lineman who show up during a power failure. I did. I posted the above text on the new york times "Green Inc" energy blog back on september 23, 2009 as a comment to an article regarding solar power in africa. The internal discharge in a deep cycle battery is only about 50 milliamps which I consider insignificant. I dont want to be connected to the grid which I consider "STUPID" and you dont either. Dont follow, think for yourselves. Think about this..... brain waves operate up to about 20 cycles per second, imagine what 60 cycles is doing to you and the world. Pat

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OFF grid solar system
by Thomas McGrane 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

The grid is vulnerable as a system. We have to stop always thinking about being connected to or relying on the utility grid. Think in terms of building an independant 12 volt DC system (low voltage) for the average dwelling to operate independant of the grid by charging batteries from solar or wind and utilizing the energy real time or later from the batteries. It seems everyone has visions of large expensive rooftop systems but starting small and building up over time will reduce the utility bill by substitution. We need to be energy independant on a small scale as well as looking at the big picture. Small systems can easily run lights, TV’s, radios, even a small refridgerator for essentials. You would still need the grid power for large loads like heat, large refridgerators, etc but you can have a seperate system to rely on if you suffer some calamity. With the advent of the “smart” grid, you dont want to be connected to the grid. Remember, the wires are antennas as well as conducting electricity. We owe our reliance on a large electrical system to Nickolai Tesla who developed high voltage alternating current power systems that won out over Thomas Edisons Direct Current system around the turn of the last century. The idea was to minmize power loss over long distances. Therefore we should all promote local or household Low voltage DC solar or wind systems to reduce the use of grid power and for much better reliability. Through the years I have built a very economical system comprised of several solar panels with a capacity of about 130 watts that automatically charge 6 large deep cycle and regular batteries from which I operate some radios , lights and in the event of loss of utility power, a small refridgerator. I also have a couple of cheap store bought DC to AC inverters if I need to operate an AC device, Solar panels have come down in price dramatically and production capabity is expanding, so start now. Think independant and start small instead of suffering mega system price hesitance. A world of 12 volt dc devices are available from hardware, marine, automotive and internet sources. You just have to start. Be the first on your block to confuse the lineman who show up during a power failure. I did. I posted the above text on the new york times "Green Inc" energy blog back on september 23, 2009 as a comment to an article regarding solar power in africa. The internal discharge in a deep cycle battery is only about 50 milliamps which I consider insignificant. I dont want to be connected to the grid which I consider "STUPID" and you dont either. Dont follow, think for yourselves. Think about this..... brain waves operate up to about 20 cycles per second, imagine what 60 cycles is doing to you and the world. Pat

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On the Air from Iceland
by Thomas Tumino 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

Greetings to all, I would like to let anyone who is interested in working Iceland know that from Sept. 28 through Oct. 5th 2009 I will be operating every daytime/evening FM satellite pass I can between 10:00 and 01:00 UTC from Iceland. Please keep in mind that the weather in Iceland can be pretty extreme, and my primary reason for being here with my wife is to tour, so I will not be on every pass, but most days I will work many passes. Equipment on this end is a 3w TH-D7AG with Arrow Antenna and headset for full duplex work. I am updating my satellite log daily on my QRZ page. The log includes both North America and Europe so far... The volcanic ground along with the almost complete lack of trees (and buildings outside of Reykjavik) make working the low passes easy, so do not be discouraged if you see a low pass listed for Iceland...you just may work me anyway. I have made several QSOs on passes under 4 degrees maximum elevation. If you are in an artic location or africa and think you have a shot at working me, I would be specifically interested in working you and would ask that you email me directly for a sked. Everyone else, please just look for me on the birds....I am on quite abit. 73 to all, Tom-TF/N2YTF

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Fwd: [ARISS-i] Video available on Internet
by Fabiano Moser 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gaston BERTELS <gaston.bertels(a)skynet.be> Date: 2009/10/3 Subject: [ARISS-i] Video available on Internet To: ariss-i(a)amsat.org ARISS CIENCIA VIVA CONTACT VIDEO NOW AVAILABLE The October 1 ARISS School Contact with Ciencia Viva Museum in Lisbon, Portugal was a success. A video is presently visible at : http://www.cvtv.pt/imagens/index.asp?id_tag=15&id_video=408 73 Gaston Bertels - ON4WF ARISS Chairman _______________________________________________ ARISS-i mailing list ARISS-i(a)amsat.org http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ariss-i -- 73 Fabiano Moser CR7/PY5RX ARISS-PORTUGAL (Amateur Radio on the International Space Station) Representative at Teleconference and Portugal Telebridge Coordinator. AMRAD/AMSAT-CT http://www.amrad.pt/ariss.php "There is no great talent without great will. (Honoré de Balzac)"

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off grid solar system
by paul robinson 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

Hi guys,must agree with Tom we should all be looking at small pv setups! here i run 1KW PV charging my stand by bat ! which is some 1500amp ! and 3kw inverter! ...look about its amazing what is abt on 12v dc!! i also run solar hot water pan...to heat the water ....paul (2e1eub)

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Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE
by Jeff Yanko 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

Hi all, A quick update to my new project to improving the Arrow antenna, efficiency wise. I wanted to see how well it would perform on gaining and losing access during AOS and LOS. AO-27 is not a good choice since the timer is turned on when it is well above the AOS horizon and it is switched off before it reaches its LOS horizon. That leaves a dependable AO-51 to test it out. With the last setup, the OEM diplexer provided by Arrow Antenna, I would copy AO-51 about 3 minutes after AOS and lose it about 3 to 4 minutes before LOS. Not bad, but people were saying they worked the birds when they were 1 degree off of the horizon. I have some pine trees that could be an issue but they are spaced far enough apart that I can work between them and I also have to deal with the McCollough Range to the SSE of me here in Las Vegas, NV. Today, there were 2 passes of AO-51, one at 12 degrees elevation, the other at 74 degrees. During both passes, I began to copy the downlink about a 1.25 minute after AOS. A considerable difference from 3 minutes. The downlink also improved down to about minute before LOS. On the last pass I worked KG6NUB at 0124z and LOS was 0125z and my downlink sounded fairly good, though I was fighting desense. (That's another issue I need to resolve.) Also, on both passes, I never once lost the downlink. No dropouts or fades. I'm still amazed. Another issue I came across was how wide the beamwidth is of the Arrow Antenna between the Arrow diplexer and the new diplexer. I was wondering if this was going to happen and it did. The reason that this happened was with the old diplexer, the signal attenuated so much that you had to be pointed right smack dab on the bird, a few degrees off and you lost the signal. Now, with the new diplexer, you can point the beam in the general direction and still copy the bird. In most cases I had to turn the beam 90 degrees before I completely lost the downlink! Twisting the antenna to make polarization changes makes absolutely no difference now. This also attributes to the fact that now I'm copying the entire pass without dropouts or fades. Makes sense. What I've regained over the lossy diplexer makes up for any polarization differences, etc. for a better copiable signal. Next weekend I will have to try more passes and get a feel of how much this system has changed. 73, Jeff WB3JFS Las Vegas, NV DM26

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FW: AO-7 Mode A
by ps8rf Piraja 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

Hello Fabiano. We are waiting for you in the mode "A". 73 Piraja, PS8RF _________________________________________________________________ Você sabia que pode acessar o Messenger direto do seu Hotmail? Descubra como! http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows/windowslive/products/tutoriais.aspx

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Re: KLM 2M-14C
by Jim Jerzycke 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

I've also got a KEPS downcoverter, AND a K5GNA. And I have one of those really nice 1M dish antennas from that guy in Pennsylvania, all never used, except for the K5GNA, which was used at Field Day on a 2M dish when AO-40 was still alive. When I operate satellites from my apartment, I use my terrestrial 2M/70cm antennas, and pick passes that don't go above 15* or so. They work very well, and surprise a lot of people when I tell them what I'm using. 73, Jim KQ6EA --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Alan VE4YZ <ve4yz(a)mts.net> wrote: > From: Alan VE4YZ <ve4yz(a)mts.net> > Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: KLM 2M-14C > To: "'i8cvs'" <domenico.i8cvs(a)tin.it>, "'Jim Jerzycke'" <kq6ea(a)pacbell.net> > Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 8:50 PM > Hi Dom and Jim... > > I agree with the comments about the quality of the KLM. But > do not agree > with the idea of keeping surplus ham equipment. We > have a shrinking > population of amateurs, and, in this area specifically > EN19, fewer and few > amateurs interested in satellites, and an older and older > population of hams > getting out by choice or circumstances. > > The problem I face is to not compete with others when > getting rid of my > surplus equipment on swap 'n shops, flea markets and eBay > where the prices > would be driven down to all the sellers' detriment. > Of course, if I was a > buyer, too much supply is good. > > I'm sitting on too much depreciating equipment now that I > can't get rid of > so I might as well give it away free - and I do that. > > A new in the box KLM should fetch a good price and easy to > ship. Used, the > same antenna is a pain in the butt to get rid of unless > sold locally. > Disassembling a yagi and shipping - yuk! And the cheap ham > community wants > it for next to nothing. > > If you get a decent offer - take it; it will be worth less > ( not worthless ) > tomorrow. > > The only major items I'm keeping is a FT-736r with the > 1.2GHz module - the > 1.2 being worth more than the rest of the radio and a > second G5400b > AZ/EL/Controller and a couple of Gulfalpha dual banders and > M2 matching tees > that get dragged out once a year for field day. But > every time I look at > them a see a lot of money tied up doing nothing and swear > I'll do an eBay on > them. > > By this time next year I expect I'll have 3 complete > satellite setups and be > even madder about not unload the stuff while it had some > value. Part of my > surplus is dumb purchasing decisions. I have a KEPS > dual band down > converter for 2.4GHz that I should have never bought but I > did because a > fellow hams has his mother living in Germany and it was > easy to get it that > way. 2 extra K5GNA down converters for what? I > am given some of this by > guys going out of the hobby for various reasons including > SK. > > Very sad to see good equipment not used and depreciating in > value every day. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amsat-bb-bounces(a)amsat.org > [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] > On > Behalf Of i8cvs > Sent: October 2, 2009 9:20 PM > To: Jim Jerzycke; AMSAT-BB > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: KLM 2M-14C > > Hi Jim KQ6EA > > I suggest you don't sell the KLM 2M-14C because in my > experience it is a > very very nice antenna. > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Jerzycke" <kq6ea(a)pacbell.net> > To: "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 3:16 AM > Subject: [amsat-bb] KLM 2M-14C > > > > I have a new-in-box KLM 2M-14C up on eBay if anybody > is interested. > > Item number is 230383642566 > > > > 73, Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the > amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >

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KLM 2M-14C
by Jim Jerzycke 03 Oct '09

03 Oct '09

I have a new-in-box KLM 2M-14C up on eBay if anybody is interested. Item number is 230383642566 73, Jim

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Iceland activation (TF/N2YTF)
by Daniel "Nick" Kucij 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Tom Tumino, N2YTF is currently operating portable from Iceland as TF/ N2YTF. From his QRZ.com page: "Iceland! I will be operating the FM satellites and HF (where time allows) from Iceland until Oct. 5th. Expect me to be on the birds QRP portable, sometimes with an Arrow Antenna for any passes between 1000 and 0000 UTC. Please help get the word out about my satellite operations." Check his QRZ page for more information. Nick KB1RVT

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HRD 5.0 and FT-897
by Randy 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

I need a little help with the software and the rig. Cant get it to track on tx freq. as far as it going to the rig. Shows up in the software just fine. I read that I have To click the TX button in the radio GUI and not my footswitch And even then the freq shows something different until I unkey. I am starting to think this software and my radio werent made For each other .. Anyone with a lot of patience that's willing to assist? Really starting to regret buying this FT-897. OH .. And the receive updates that get sent to the radio >From the satellite tracker. Is there a way to change the rate At which the updates are sent? Should I be trying a different piece of software? TIA Randy - N2CUA

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Anusat in trouble
by David Giles 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Hello All, Just found this article on the web. Looks like we may miss out on using the amateur payload. As I type the carrier beacon on 137.4MHz is coming through as strong as other times I have heard it. 73 de David VK5DG http://www.deccanchronicle.com/chennai/anusat-almost-dead-space-664

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Re: Solar Power (I was wrong)
by Greg D. 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

I've always wondered why the solar panel makers don't put water tubing on the back side of the panels. Boost the efficiency, and get hot water for the house or pool at the same time. Seems like a no-brainer. {shrug} Unfortunately for me, I have large trees shading the house (big enough that I'm hoping I'm coming out ahead with lower air conditioning bills), and a roof angle exposure that is not solar-friendly even if they weren't there. So I was thinking, if I had space for just a few panels, perhaps I could go low-tech with a system built from a scrap UPS. After all, I've got an APRS station - PC, TNC, radio, and internet connection - using power constantly, and I often find perfectly good UPSs being tossed out (i.e. free) because the battery is shot and not worth replacing. Put the solar cells in place of the UPS' battery, and modify the power failure detect circuitry to work backwards - give preference to the battery/solar side, only switching to the line side if there is insufficient "battery" power. This will give me free 120 vac whenever the sun shines. At night, it would power-fail back over to the line, and only then would the power company's meter start to spin. I'd probably put a regular UPS down stream from the hacked-up one, in case the failover/back from line to solar wasn't real clean. The biggest problem I see is that most of the solar panels available these days are in the 50-60 volt range, which means that you'd need to do a conversion down to battery voltage first. (Maybe put two panels in series and run them into a regular 12v DC power supply?) Now, I just need to find a source of free-to-cheap solar panels. I almost bought a set at a local Ham swap ($10 ea) that had cracked surface glass but were otherwise functional, but I didn't think they'd survive the trip home in my car (no place big enough to lay them flat). (I'd need to weatherproof them too....) Anyway, just a thought... Greg KO6TH > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:46:28 -0700 > From: ptrowe(a)yahoo.com > To: bruninga(a)usna.edu; amsat-bb(a)amsat.org; wb3jfs(a)cox.net > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Solar Power (I was wrong) > > > One of my friends installed a water spray system to cool the panels since > they lose efficiency fast as the temperature goes up. Also, it doesn't > take much dust or bird poop to cut the efficiency. So if you install a > system, be prepared to get on the roof every month or so to clean the > panels. > > > > Regards, > > Pete > > WA6WOA > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori…

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Re: Solar Power (I was wrong)
by G0MRF＠aol.com 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

In a message dated 02/10/2009 18:41:31 GMT Standard Time, bruninga(a)usna.edu writes: Again, there is a BIG difference between solar design for stand-alone battery systems (must point south, optimum angle, etc) and grid-tie systems that can be anything from SE to SW and even FLAT and still be only a few percent off peak!. Sorry Bob, But a few percent is certainly not correct for the installation I'm responsible for. I have a set of panels pointing at the horizon at my local school and they are about 40% down at midday. The efficiency is directly related to the amount of sun falling on the panel....well some relationship to the tan of the angle in radians....or whatever it was I calculated and then measured. Actually the angle to the sun is critical for max efficiency. (Obviously missed completely by the %7'!** who approved this installation.) _http://www.sunnyportal.com/Templates/PublicPageOverview.aspx?plant=7350f0ac -1a01-4248-89cc-90607f32caaf&splang=en-GB_ (http://www.sunnyportal.com/Templates/PublicPageOverview.aspx?plant=7350f0ac… ng=en-GB) If you want to check out the efficiency of an installation near you, just have a quick search of the "publicly available plants" at _www.sunnyportal.com_ (http://www.sunnyportal.com) David G0MRF

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GJTRACKER Version 2.03
by Lance Collister 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Howdy! I discovered a bug in GJTRACKER when I was using it to calculate some grid locators for locations in the southern hemisphere. I don't know how many people beside me use it for this, but I find it quite convenient ;-) I did want to spread the word that I have fixed the bug and it is now working properly. The full corrected current version is 2.0.3 and is available here: http://bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/GJTRACKER.zip If you have already installed GJTRACKER on your computer, all you need is to replace the application file itself: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/GJTRACKER.exe GL and DX! VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

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Re: Solar Power (I was wrong)
by k0vty＠juno.com 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Afternoon Sir: I have enjoyed your postings on the BB. However this time I have to ask a question of you. The term Grid-Tie for the purpose of Solar efficiencies has me stumped If you would be so kind I would like an explination. As the old saying goes , "when one in the class does not understand, bet on 5 more in the same conditon" Additionally if there is data on where such a system is currently available, that might help. Best Regards Joseph Murray ( K0VTY) Amsat # 860 Amsat Coordinator NE. ========================= On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:03:18 -0400 (EDT) "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga(a)usna.edu> writes: > > My simple math says it'll take almost > > 16 years to be reimbursed on a $30k system. > > Its more like 5.5 years.. I'll show you my numbers for Maryland: > > > Initial outlay: $30,000 > > US tax credit: 5% > > No, Federal Credit is 30% > > > US reimbursement: $1500 (this is not > > real money, but a reduction in taxable income) > > at 30% it is $9,000 and it is a *credit*, not a deduction, so that > is cash in your pocket off the tax you pay. > > Then most states, give either similar Tax *credits* or grants, in my > state it would be about $4,000 check, payable to me when > installation is complete. Then the county makes up the difference > to 50% of the cost of the system. > > > Total: $28,500 > > No, here, my net outlay is reduced to 50% or only $15,000. > > > Savings per year in electricity: $1800 > > That, plus Solar Energy Renewable credits paid to you by the power > company or brokers at about $250 per KW capacity for a 4 Kw system = > $1000 per year. They buy this credit from you so that they dont > have to build solar systems. By paying you this credit, they get to > subtract the capacity from the amount they are required to build by > the year 2020? or whatever. So add the two and you get a payback of > $2800/year. > > > $30k / 1.8k = 15.83 years > > * My numbers show $15k / 2.8 = 5.3 years (even less if electric > rates go up) > > > One of the points of the post, I think, > > was to make ourselves less dependent on > > foreign oil.. > > > Personally, I do not think PV cells are > > that efficient. To get the 12VDC I need > > to power my remote... repeaters, I... > > lose more than 30% in generated heat. > > Yes! That was my mistake too. Energy Storage in batteries is very > inefficient. About 30% or more losses. But GRID-TIE systems are > 95% efficient PLUS you are selling the power to the grid at PEAK > rates in the middle of the day, and buying it back at discout rates > at night. Net effect is not a loss, but a GAIN. Of course, this > does not help at a repeater, but do not carryover these losses to a > Grid Tie system where it does not apply... > > > they only last so long. > > Twenty years, tops maybe? > > Do they really pay for themselves? > > You bet for sure! Compare that to a $30,000 car, which is junk in > 10 years and you have nothing. The solar system cost $30,000 > (actually $15K) and you MAKE $15k in the first 5 years, and for the > next 15, you make $45,000, and then your array has decayed to maybe > only 80% of its original life... but it is still MAKING money at > then CURRENT rates... > > The 20 and 30 year life does not mean they die, it is just that > their power has dropped by XX%... Im guessing that the threshold is > 80%? > > > > > in California. .. the power company is > > only required to pay you the WHOLESALE > > cost of electricity. This amounts to 3 > > to 4 cents per kw-hr. > > Ah, but if you pay 15 cents per KWH during the day to run your home, > and you have enough solar to balance that, then the payback to you > is still 15 cents per KwH. Its only the excess you generate that > pays you the low rates. > > The key word is "net metering". In other states with net-metering, > they have to give you the full 15 cents credit for the excess power > you generate. But in most all cases, you cannot beuild up credits > beyond a year cycle. > > > ... bird poop to cut the efficiency. > > be prepared to get on the roof every > > month or so to clean the panels. > > AMEN. PV cells are in series. One big splat that covers one CELL, > reduces the power of the ENTIRE PANEL. A single Flag Pole shadow > across a roof, can reduce the power of the entire roof array > tremendously... > > >> if you sell back over 50,000 watts > >> of power you will incur additional taxes, > >> ... you are considered a "generator" > > I assume that is NET. To build up that much excess capacity would > require an array on my house covering 3 times the roof area I have > available. And it would make no sense to build an array that big, > since you aleady know that you get paid peanuts for excess net power > (wholesale). > > >> Lets say you were able to generate > >> and sell back 100,000 watts to the > >> utility company. > > Yes, that is my annual consumption. But my array will be sized so > that I generate 100,000 in that same year. SO the NET "sell back" > is ZERO. And I got all my electricity for FREE that year. You are > right, that if I make my array TWICE as big as I need, and spent > about $100,000 for it, that then, I would generate twice the > electricity I need, and would not get paid but probably HALF the > rate for it PLUS the taxes you mentino. Oh, and that array would > coer 8,000 square feet almost an Acre... So I would not worry about > a homeower making the mistake of building too big a system... > > >>> > 1) Solar panels (PV) are 1% of what they cost in 1970 > >>> 2) PV dropped 40% this year due to 2007 Energy Boom and 2009 > economic bust > >>> 4) $5,000 to $20,000 tax and cash back incentives for YOU > >>> 5) Grid-tie systems operate at 95% efficiency compared to 70% of > battery systems > >>> 6) Local electric rates DOUBLED in the last 2 years > >>> 7) Laws require utilities to pay you the same peak rates they > charge you. > >>> 8) Solar Energy credits can gain an additional $275 per 1Kw > system per year > >>> 9) Payback is at least 10% per year or better > >>> 10) The same money in the bank gets 1% interest > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the > author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ____________________________________________________________ $5,000 a Week For Life Publishers Clearing House winner annouced on NBC. Enter now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ivXBCqEdejvr9UOvcHT2YAAAJ1CmZ…

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Re: Solar Power (I was wrong)
by Mike and Paula Herr 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

I've had a solar grid inter tie set up here in California for a number of years, so I have had a tad bit of experience. The cost can be somewhat deceptive. I have heard prices of $20,000 to $30,000 banded around. At installation there is a healthy rebate from the California Public Utility commission, many other states have similar set ups. Then there are tax credits for Federal. California recently dropped their state credits. Plus, usually even a small installation, while not bringing you down to zero cost electrically, does bring your peak into the lower tiers of cost. Out of pocket mine cost me about $6,000. And it is working great. No, I do not have to clean them off every month. My monthly electrical bill is about $25. I am now in the process of adding a wind turbine to the mix. So look at the entire mix, ie cost, rebates and credits, and effects on the bill. Just my 2 cents 73 Mike WA6ARA > > Since Satellite design is heavy into Solar power, and I talk > about that a lot, you may have heard me compare my Solar car to > Solar panels on the roof of your house as not economical, I WAS > WRONG. I was overlooking many recent changes in the > environment: > > 1) Solar panels (PV) are 1% of what they cost in 1970 > 2) PV dropped 40% this year due to 2007 Energy Boom and 2009 > economic bust > 4) $5,000 to $20,000 tax and cash back incentives for YOU > 5) Grid-tie systems operate at 95% efficiency compared to 70% of

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Solar Power (I was wrong)
by Robert Bruninga 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Since Satellite design is heavy into Solar power, and I talk about that a lot, you may have heard me compare my Solar car to Solar panels on the roof of your house as not economical, I WAS WRONG. I was overlooking many recent changes in the environment: 1) Solar panels (PV) are 1% of what they cost in 1970 2) PV dropped 40% this year due to 2007 Energy Boom and 2009 economic bust 4) $5,000 to $20,000 tax and cash back incentives for YOU 5) Grid-tie systems operate at 95% efficiency compared to 70% of battery systems 6) Local electric rates DOUBLED in the last 2 years 7) Laws require utilities to pay you the same peak rates they charge you. 8) Solar Energy credits can gain an additional $275 per 1Kw system per year 9) Payback is at least 10% per year or better 10) The same money in the bank gets 1% interest So I was wrong in not keeping current with all the changing environment, and now I am full speed to get my system approved and built and correct any miss-guidance I may have helped propagate. Sorry. I am claiming this particular email is on-topic because of public statements to the contrary I have made at satellite forums. But this hot topic should probably spin off elsewhere. We need a HAM Solar Power group somewhere...? Summary: Do NOT make the mistake (as most of us do) of thinking in terms of stand-alone Battery back-up solar power systems . They cost more and you don't need it in most places where you have access to the grid. They cost $5 to $10,000 more, are only 70% efficient (compared to 95% for grid-tie) and are a never ending maintenance headache. Instead, most any enterprising ham should be able to provide his own backup power using a cheap 1 kW inverter for about $150 from any auto store or radio shack running off his car's 12V system for any power outages. That, a few deep cycle batteries, (and using CFL lightbulbs in your house) will give you enough emergency power to operate your full Ham station, all the lights in the house you want plus your refrigerator for as long as you can buy gas. But the other 99.99% of the time, sell your solar power to the power company (at peak rates during the day) and buy it back cheap at night (you win and you don't even have to worrry about batteries)... And even if your grid-tie solar array produces nothing (in the way of AC power) when the grid goes out, you still have many Killowatts of DC power on your roof, that you can surely find lots of things to do with until the grid comes back. For example, have the electrician wire a 250 volt string of the 200 Watt solar panels in the array to a DPDT switch so they can be disconnected from the Grid Tie system and the 250 VDC can be available to you. THen you can plug in as many modern DC/DC pwer supplies into that 250 VDC to give you LOTS of amps at 12 volts, or ... almost any modern gizmo has a universal power supply input that will run on anything from 110V to 330V DC as is. Anyway, for similar hints www.aprs.org/FD-Prius-Power.html Sorry for the off-topic. But I was wrong. PV works! (even in Maryland). If you live in the SW, you are lucky, and it works TWICE as much or at HALF the price! A Born-again Home PV junkie Bob, WB4APR

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Re: College Satellite nights, Thursday night
by Rodney Waln 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

hi, i would like to thank those that made it possable, i got on mid pass AO-51 QRP (0005z) and there were 2 college stations that i worked Kansas (K0KU), Stanford (W6YX), thank you for being on, Rodney kc0zhf

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Out of the Office
by Martha 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

I will be out of the AMSAT office from Wednesday, October 7th - October 12th. Hope to see many of you at the AMSAT Space Symposium and Annual Meeting next week. -- 73- Martha

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Symposium weather
by Alan P. Biddle 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Morning, For those who will be attending the Symposium, the forecast looks like a good stretch of Fall weather. Crisp, mostly clear, but the possibility of a few showers. Wed Oct 7 H 74° L 56° Thu Oct 8 H 67° L 49° Fri Oct 9 H 66° L 48° Sat Oct 10 H 65° L 52° Sun Oct 11 H 66° L 50° Alan WA4SCA

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AO-7 Mode A
by ps8rf Piraja 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Hello All, Yesterday, when the AO-7 has radically changed the mode B to mode A, I noticed that the amount of QSO in mode "A" increased significantly, we see in the log of the AO-7. The signals are stronger at 29.450 MHz. Now the night, I heard stations of PY5LF, PY4ZBZ and especially Joe, K3SZH with signal 5 / 7 at the end of the orbit, in SSB. Is a wonderful sign in mode "A". I use a antenna 40 meters of wire and a 3 element yagi. I would like to invite the users of AO-7 to take this chance that the satellite is giving us to keep the QSO in mode A, I do not know how long it will last this facility. AO-7 Log: http://www.planetemily.com/ao7/ao7log.php 73 Piraja, PS8RF _________________________________________________________________ Novo Internet Explorer 8. Baixe agora, é grátis! http://brasil.microsoft.com.br/IE8/mergulhe/?utm_source=MSN%3BHotmail&utm_m…

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Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 509
by Tim Goodrich 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Most panels are guaranteed for 25 years, I believe. And that guarantee is that they produce xx% of a new panel. There will be reduced efficiency over time, but systems should continue to be effective for years after the guarantee is over. Tim KI6VBY -----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces(a)amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of amsat-bb-request(a)amsat.org Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:28 PM To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org Subject: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 509 Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to amsat-bb(a)amsat.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to amsat-bb-request(a)amsat.org You can reach the person managing the list at amsat-bb-owner(a)amsat.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..." No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.2/2408 - Release Date: 10/01/09 18:23:00

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Arrow 11 Antenna performance from the designer
by Peter 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Hello, I've been reading the comments on the Arrow 11 Antenna regarding performance comparisons with the stock vs. commercial Duplexer's. I decided to find the designer and ask him, while not the scientific answer I was seeking it does give us some idea of what he was asked to design. 73, Pete, WB2OQQ Pete; Well, 2.4 db of loss sounds like one that is a little high, but possible if you include the cables. I did this design over 10 years ago, and I hold no stake in Arrow or Duplexer production. I used surface mount components that made it so that it would fit in the handle. The losses form those are not as good a tuned up commercial duplexer with better Q's for the inductors. As with any project some one's idea is always better than the rest. I take it with a grain of salt, this was a fun project I did for AMSAT and hold no grudges on making it better. If you can come up with a better design with some of the stuff that is out there, Go For IT!!! Best Regards Charles,

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info wanted
by w3vvp 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Has any one had any experience with the Alinco-DJ-G7? Have there been any reviews of it? Please reply off line. Thanks. George,W3VVP

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Help with TrackBox and Yaesu Control Box
by Vincenzo Mone 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Hello to the list, I own a trackBox and as Rotator the G-5400B. I have noticed a strange thing when I go to switch of the Control box. Every time I switch it off, while the Trackbox is on, I see the trackBox lcd going crazy or I can see the letters disappear and The top of the display all square. Anybody can tell me what is going on and how to solve it? Thanks in advance for any help that will be really appreciated. 73 de Enzo IK8OZV EasyLog 5 BetaTester EasyLog PDA BetaTester WinBollet BetaTester D.C.I. CheckPoint Regione Campania Skype: ik8ozv8520 *************************************** ***** GSM +39 338 9749786 ***** ***** SMS +39 338 9749786 ***** ***** FAX +39 328 7244294 ***** *** 2nd e-mail: vimone(a)tin.it *** ***************************************

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quadrafilar helix for 70cm- ambiguous design specs
by Tim Goodrich 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Hi All, The house I just bought precludes me from even using my arrow inside as there must be something un-RF friendly in the walls. Therefore, I was looking for a roof antenna and the October QST article on the QFH inspired me to build one. However, after doing some research, I have come up with two sets of design specs and I'm unsure which one is correct. I converted everything from you're the 146Mhz QST model to 436Mhz. However, when I plug that info into http://www.jcoppens.com/ant/qfh/calc.en.php The values it puts out are different in the "compensated length" field. The only difference is this model calculates for a full turn as opposed to a half turn, but the lengths shouldn't be as different as it says. Under the QST model, I get a wavelength of 688mm, but under the website's model, it gives me a "compensated wavelength" of 729mm. The values I used to calculate are: 436 1 1 15 2 .23 Can anyone tell me which specs to use and/or explain this compensated wavelength issue? Thank you, Tim KI6VBY

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Hudson Valley Satcom Group Net Tonight October 01 At 8PM On Echolink n2eyh-L
by Cotejaune2＠aol.com 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Hello again everyone. We are starting our fourth year with net # 79 tonight. I am sorry that the link was not enabled for the last net. Our club director of engineering assured me that it will be tonight. So please join us this evening on the net. 73 Gary wa2aqh

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European Space Weather Week: Reduced fee for Radio Amateurs
by Neil Melville 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Hi all, a friend and colleague from work asked me to pass this along to the community. Neil PA9N ------------------ The sixth European Space Weather Week will take place in Brugge, Belgium, from Monday 16th November to Friday 20th November 2009. The ESWW meetings aim to bring together diverse communities working on all elements of space weather with a strong focus on user involvement. This year’s meeting will discuss recent advances in both scientific and applications based domains and how these advances relate to user needs. This year the space weather tutorial and one of the plenary sessions will focus on issues relating to space weather effects on communications. With this in mind, the programme committee has made a special arrangement for radio hams who would like to attend the meeting. Radio amateurs with a license to operate are also welcome to the conference and will get a discount. Radio Amateurs are requested to send a copy of their license to esa.conference.bureau(a)esa.int within one week after registration. Registration as a Radio Amateur includes access to scientific sessions on Tuesday and Wednesday and tutorial only. The reduced fee is 50 €. Attendance to the reception and conference dinner is not included. The deadline for online registration for hams is October 19. For more info see: http://sidc.oma.be/esww6

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