April 2009 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

Re: [amsat-florida] Re: FCC 70cm Proposal
by Trevor . 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

Hi Graham, We should bear in mind that in the British Isles and Europe Automobile Key Fobs, which operate on 433.920 MHz as against the 315 MHz used elsewhere, are also "Unprotected Devices". In a number of cases in the UK where people have complained about being unable to open their Automobiles in the vicinity of licenced 70cm Amateur Radio Repeaters then the Regulator (Ofcom in UK) has forced the licensed Amateur repeater to shutdown. Nevermind the cause of the problem is the Automobile Key Fob receiver. These typically have wide open front ends that collapse in the presence of strong RF fields. For those in North America, repeaters in the UK are individually licensed and now as a result of Key Fobs using 433.920 MHz anyone wishing to set up a 70cm repeater has to prove to the regulator that the "Unprotected" Automobile Key Fobs will not suffer "interference" (overload) from the repeater. Embedded (implanted) radio devices for medical applications is set to become a boom industry in the coming years. While the current FCC proposal relate to one particular application it is inevitable that once granted the frequencies will in coming years be used for a wide variety of other medical devices. Irrespective of what may be said now the health care needs of citizens (voters) will take precedance over Ham Radio operations. If these devices end up in Ham Radio allocations then we will in time be forced out. 73 Trevor M5AKA --- On Wed, 15/4/09, Graham Shirville <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Graham Shirville <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [amsat-florida] Re: FCC 70cm Proposal > To: "Louis McFadin" <w5did(a)mac.com> > Cc: amsat-florida(a)amsat.org, amsat-bb(a)amsat.org > Date: Wednesday, 15 April, 2009, 5:27 PM > Hi Lou, > > Yes I agree we should never relax! > > Thanks for reminding me of the fact:) > > 73 > > Graham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Louis McFadin" <w5did(a)mac.com> > To: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> > Cc: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com>; > <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; > > <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: [amsat-florida] Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm > Proposal > > > >I don't believe relaxing is a good idea. Constant > vigilance by all is the > >mantra to have. I am worried about getting sued for > causing someone to > >have some reaction to my 70CM signal I send up to AO51 > or other satellite > >or talking to the local repeater. Someone who I > have no knowledge of. > > We should ask them to stay away from the 70 cm ham > band. 400Mhz is OK as > > long as they can accept signals from 420 + without > harm. > > > > I would think something that has health consequences > would receive a lot > > of careful safety analysis before being made > operational. > > > > On Apr 15, 2009, at 4:28 AM, Graham Shirville wrote: > > > >> A further check with an expert gives me this > response: > >> > >> "No protection at all - at least in Europe. Short > Range Devices must not > >> cause interference and must suffer any > interference they receive. Ofcom > >> don't like that, but it's in the Short range > Device Directive. Not that > >> Ofcom pay any attention to it if they can avoid > doing so. Even Part 95 > >> MICS > >> devcies in the US get no protection, and that > applies every where else, > >> too." > >> > >> so perhaps we can relax? > >> > >> cheers > >> > >> Graham > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> > >> To: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com>; > <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; > >> <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:38 AM > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > >> > >> > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> From another group I read that the maximum > power radiated outside the > >>> body > >>> will be around -30 to -40dBm, so not much > chance of these systems being > >>> a > >>> problem to us. > >>> > >>> But of course if they expect "protection" from > our signals.... > >>> > >>> 73 > >>> > >>> Graham > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com> > >>> To: <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; > <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > >>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:18 PM > >>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > >>> > >>> > >>>> This is interesting.... N4ZQ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> FCC Proposes to Allocate 20 MHz of > Spectrum in 413-456 MHz Band For > >>>> Implanted Neuromuscular Devices > >>>> > >>>> The FCC has released a Notice of Proposed > Rulemaking (NPRM - ET Docket > >>>> 09-36) seeking comment on a proposal to > allocate 20 MHz of spectrum in > >>>> the 413-457 MHz band for use by wireless > medical devices that could be > >>>> implanted into the human body and used to > restore sensation and > >>>> mobility to paralyzed limbs and > organs. The devices would act as a > >>>> wireless medical micro-power network (MMN) > within the patient. Among > >>>> the conditions that could be treatable > using MMNs include polio, ALS > >>>> (Lou Gehrig's disease), cerebral palsy, > and spinal cord injuries. > >>>> > >>>> The 400 MHz band is targeted because it is > optimal for RF propagation > >>>> through body tissue. The > devices would require at least 5 MHz of > >>>> bandwidth to function and would operate on > a low power, secondary non- > >>>> interference basis. Twenty MHz of > spectrum in four band segments are > >>>> proposed so that the device would have > four options in case one band > >>>> segment was already in use in a given > area. The NPRM seeks comment on > >>>> the feasibility of four different band > segments: > >>>> > >>>> * 413-419 MHz > >>>> > >>>> * 426-432 MHz > >>>> > >>>> * 438-444 MHz > >>>> > >>>> * 451-457 MHz > >>>> > >>>> Comment is also sought on: > >>>> > >>>> * Potential for interference between MMNs > and incumbent users > >>>> > >>>> * Service rules (licensed or unlicensed, > definitions, permissible > >>>> communications, eligibility, etc.) > >>>> > >>>> * Technical rules (power limitations, > bandwidth, frequency stability, > >>>> channelization, antenna locations, etc.) > >>>> > >>>> The text of the News Release is available > at: > >>>> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-289482A1.doc > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ____________________________________________________________ > >>>> Learning Centers - Click Here. > >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXVv0gKYPqCr8IkCaCq5KA… > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the > >>>> author. > >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to > support the amateur satellite > >>>> program! > >>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Via the AMSAT-Florida mailing list courtesy of > AMSAT-NA > >> AMSAT-Florida(a)amsat.org > >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-florida > > > > > > > > Lou McFadin > > W5DID > > w5did(a)mac.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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Automobile Noise
by BobsImsai8800＠aol.com 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

Hi all -- some facts I have learned about automobile noise after 40 years in the profession. DEALER FIX: While dealing with many different professional communications users, I found that the automobile industry usually has a kit to fix most RF and electrical noises that are generated by the auto and with problems that the auto has with RF interference getting into the circuits. REASON -- It is cheaper to provide the equipment to fix the autos that have a problem due to installed communications equipment, than to install the fix on millions and millions of autos that don't need it. SOLUTION -- I always told the customer to check with the dealer to find the proper fix -- it usually took a manager and up the chain to a district manager for a fix. And now we have Google and the Internet, which makes finding these fixes easier. Of course the new Hybrids have a whole new set of problems and solutions. Side note -- the diesel and the 2007 trip to Dayton: One would think a diesel is very quite - no ignition and no electric fan on the radiator. Wrong -- the electric injector pump on the 1997 Ford F350 had 20 over S-9 noise when we put the radio in it. My F150 with a V6 gas engine has no noise, but it was S-9 noise when just parked next to the diesel. Google RF noise on the Ford diesel -- there are some solutions. Bob, K5GNA **************Great deals on Dell’s most popular laptops – Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631252x1201390195/aol?redir=htt…)

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AMSAT/TAPR Banquet
by Martha 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

People - The Dayton AMSAT/TAPR banquet is just about 1 month away. Our Guest Speaker is Richard Garriott, W5KWQ. If you have not registered, go to the AMSAT website and look on the left hand side. There will be a box that says Dayton Hamvention. Click on that and it will lead you to the banquet registration. You MUST be pre- registered to attend. You cannot register at Dayton. -- 73- Martha- AMSAT Manager

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FAO: Don Haynes -
by Dave Aitch 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

Hi Don, did you receive my mail about the polarphaser ? Cheers, Dave.

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Re: FCC 70cm Proposal
by Graham Shirville 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

A further check with an expert gives me this response: "No protection at all - at least in Europe. Short Range Devices must not cause interference and must suffer any interference they receive. Ofcom don't like that, but it's in the Short range Device Directive. Not that Ofcom pay any attention to it if they can avoid doing so. Even Part 95 MICS devcies in the US get no protection, and that applies every where else, too." so perhaps we can relax? cheers Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> To: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com>; <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > Hi All, > > From another group I read that the maximum power radiated outside the body > will be around -30 to -40dBm, so not much chance of these systems being a > problem to us. > > But of course if they expect "protection" from our signals.... > > 73 > > Graham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com> > To: <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:18 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > > >> This is interesting.... N4ZQ >> >> >> >> FCC Proposes to Allocate 20 MHz of Spectrum in 413-456 MHz Band For >> Implanted Neuromuscular Devices >> >> The FCC has released a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM - ET Docket >> 09-36) seeking comment on a proposal to allocate 20 MHz of spectrum in >> the 413-457 MHz band for use by wireless medical devices that could be >> implanted into the human body and used to restore sensation and >> mobility to paralyzed limbs and organs. The devices would act as a >> wireless medical micro-power network (MMN) within the patient. Among >> the conditions that could be treatable using MMNs include polio, ALS >> (Lou Gehrig's disease), cerebral palsy, and spinal cord injuries. >> >> The 400 MHz band is targeted because it is optimal for RF propagation >> through body tissue. The devices would require at least 5 MHz of >> bandwidth to function and would operate on a low power, secondary non- >> interference basis. Twenty MHz of spectrum in four band segments are >> proposed so that the device would have four options in case one band >> segment was already in use in a given area. The NPRM seeks comment on >> the feasibility of four different band segments: >> >> * 413-419 MHz >> >> * 426-432 MHz >> >> * 438-444 MHz >> >> * 451-457 MHz >> >> Comment is also sought on: >> >> * Potential for interference between MMNs and incumbent users >> >> * Service rules (licensed or unlicensed, definitions, permissible >> communications, eligibility, etc.) >> >> * Technical rules (power limitations, bandwidth, frequency stability, >> channelization, antenna locations, etc.) >> >> The text of the News Release is available at: >> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-289482A1.doc >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Learning Centers - Click Here. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXVv0gKYPqCr8IkCaCq5KA… >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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Re: [Mw] Slightly OT: Mobile Installations
by AJ9N＠aol.com 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

I own a 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid and a 2008 Toyota Prius. Love both hybrids. So far I have not installed a radio in either car but I have used an HT using the 12V socket with no apparent problem. Here are some web sites that might help. _http://wa8lmf.net/mobile/prius/index.htm_ (http://wa8lmf.net/mobile/prius/index.htm) _http://www.k0bg.com/hybrid.html_ (http://www.k0bg.com/hybrid.html) the main page is listed below. _http://www.k0bg.com/_ (http://www.k0bg.com/) really cool home page for a bunch of mobile stuff. I am leaning towards just installing a VHF/UHF dual bander in my hybrids so I might not have much of a noise issue. But HF is another story. I also went into the Toyota web site to look at their manuals. You can buy a 1 day subscription and download as much as you want. They were not the most helpful for installing radios but there are some interesting things to know. Toyota has something called TIS (Technical Information System). Go to: _https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_nfpb=true&_pag eLabel=ti_home_page&SMENC=ISO-8859-1&SMLOCALE=US-EN&SMAUTHREASON=0&SMAGENTNA ME=%24SM%24mT%252bGLraBu9CwUVnZg4mEDzB2kysT90hgbwsWgdZzNOc%253d&TARGET=%24SM %24https%3A%2F%2Ftechinfo.toyota.com%2F_ (https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_nfpb=true&_pag… 1&SMLOCALE=US-EN&SMAUTHREASON=0&SMAGENTNAME=$SM$mT%2bGLraBu9CwUVnZg4mEDzB2ky sT90hgbwsWgdZzNOc%3d&TARGET=$SM$https://techinfo.toyota.com/) I too am interested in what others are finding. 73, Charlie Sufana AJ9N In a message dated 4/14/2009 1:34:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kl7uw(a)acsalaska.net writes: At 05:22 PM 4/13/2009, Jim Sanford wrote: >All: >The other day, somebody decided he needed to get thru an intersection >ahead of me . . . . so, in search of a replacement chariot to support >the mobile equipment. Considering: > > Toyota Highlander hybrid > Saturn VUE Hybrid > >Have read the Consumer Reports rap on all. > >QUESTION: Does anybody have any experience or guidance regarding: > -- problems installing HF/VHF/UHF radios in either vehicle > -- problems with noise FROM the hybrid equipment > >I remember that some years ago, all the Japanese manufacturers would >void your warranty if you installed two-way radio equipment. That >appears to be no longer true, as long as "properly installed" (defined >as adequately fused). > >All experiences welcome. > >Thanks for bandwidth. > >73, >Jim >wb4gcs(a)amsat.org Jim, Excellent question, considering the number of hybrid cars (and all-electric cars soon to be offered in 2010). I wonder if the electric motors have brushes and if they are RFI bypassed? I do not have any info to provide, but certainly interested in what you find out. I am watching the Chrystler Electric Town & Country van to be offered in 2010 with 40-mpg performance. It runs with electric motors 100% and has gasoline generator for extended distance driving. 73, Ed - KL7UW _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000002)

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AO51 L/S
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 14 Apr '09

14 Apr '09

Great contact with KL7XT for several minutes. I used a 16 turn helix, instead of the 22 el yagi. The helix blows the yagi away. 73 Bob W7LRD

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AO-51 Mode L/US at 4 degrees
by Greg D. 14 Apr '09

14 Apr '09

Hi folks, I ALMOST had an entire pass talking to myself, but Dale, KL7XJ in BP40, saved me at the last minute. 4 degrees elevation, off to the north west, 10 watts at the shack-end of a long piece of coax and a 18 turn helix was just enough to make it into the bird. Thanks, Dale! Good signals throughout the pass on both U and S downlinks. Greg KO6TH _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Up…

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VO52 voice
by Gary Lockhart 14 Apr '09

14 Apr '09

Tim, Heard you loud and clear but unable to tune up for a QSO. Didn't expect anyone on an ocean pass of this bird until it got up north. Keep trying. 73 de Gary AB3ID

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Tonight, the Netherlands found Georgia on AO-7
by n3tl＠bellsouth.net 14 Apr '09

14 Apr '09

Hey everyone, At 21:29 UTC tonight (5:29 p.m., Eastern Daylight Time), Hans - PA3CQE - responded to my "CQ DX" on Grand Old AO-7. We had a couple of exchanges in CW, and another country and "exotic" grid square went in the satellite log here. I am thrilled to make such a wonderful contact on AO-7, and with a straight key. As we worked, AO-7 descended from just about 4 degrees to 2.2 degrees here. What a hoot! 73 to all, Tim

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