April 2009 - Amsat-florida (INACTIVE)

Antenna comparisons
by David J 21 Apr '09

21 Apr '09

I'm looking for any paper or article that compares performance of 70cm and 2M antennas in attic environments. Preferably where multiple antennas were tested in the same location in the same attic area. I'm particularly interested in antennas such as the Arrow, eggbeater, a typical turnstile, Texas Potato Masher, quadrifiler type, the newer Cantenna, a ground plane, etc. Can anyone help me out? Dave, AA4KN

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current ISS pass
by David J 18 Apr '09

18 Apr '09

I'm a bit confused here. I'm currently receiving APRS signals from the ISS on 145.800 instead of 145.825 MHz. In addition, I've just updated my keps on Satscape and I see the ISS footprint way east of my location here in Florida. I appear to be having an overhead pass or close to it. I don't have time to really run this down. Does anyone have an explanation. Is this happening to anyone else? Dave, AA4KN

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Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Re: FCC 70cm Proposal
by Trevor . 16 Apr '09

16 Apr '09

--- On Thu, 16/4/09, Mike - N4HHA <n4hha(a)n4hha.org> wrote: > "The Notice proposes to limit MMN operations to use only by > persons for > diagnostic and therapeutic purposes, and only to the extent > provided under > the direction of authorized health care professionals." For now, it's what'll happen in 5 or 10 years time that we need to watch out for. 73 Trevor M5AKA

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FCC 70cm Proposal
by Keith N4ZQ 16 Apr '09

16 Apr '09

This is interesting.... N4ZQ FCC Proposes to Allocate 20 MHz of Spectrum in 413-456 MHz Band For Implanted Neuromuscular Devices The FCC has released a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM - ET Docket 09-36) seeking comment on a proposal to allocate 20 MHz of spectrum in the 413-457 MHz band for use by wireless medical devices that could be implanted into the human body and used to restore sensation and mobility to paralyzed limbs and organs. The devices would act as a wireless medical micro-power network (MMN) within the patient. Among the conditions that could be treatable using MMNs include polio, ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease), cerebral palsy, and spinal cord injuries. The 400 MHz band is targeted because it is optimal for RF propagation through body tissue. The devices would require at least 5 MHz of bandwidth to function and would operate on a low power, secondary non- interference basis. Twenty MHz of spectrum in four band segments are proposed so that the device would have four options in case one band segment was already in use in a given area. The NPRM seeks comment on the feasibility of four different band segments: * 413-419 MHz * 426-432 MHz * 438-444 MHz * 451-457 MHz Comment is also sought on: * Potential for interference between MMNs and incumbent users * Service rules (licensed or unlicensed, definitions, permissible communications, eligibility, etc.) * Technical rules (power limitations, bandwidth, frequency stability, channelization, antenna locations, etc.) The text of the News Release is available at: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-289482A1.doc ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYVskSoXshEdNOTD1iuUfXj…

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Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Re: FCC 70cm Proposal
by Trevor . 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

Hi Graham, We should bear in mind that in the British Isles and Europe Automobile Key Fobs, which operate on 433.920 MHz as against the 315 MHz used elsewhere, are also "Unprotected Devices". In a number of cases in the UK where people have complained about being unable to open their Automobiles in the vicinity of licenced 70cm Amateur Radio Repeaters then the Regulator (Ofcom in UK) has forced the licensed Amateur repeater to shutdown. Nevermind the cause of the problem is the Automobile Key Fob receiver. These typically have wide open front ends that collapse in the presence of strong RF fields. For those in North America, repeaters in the UK are individually licensed and now as a result of Key Fobs using 433.920 MHz anyone wishing to set up a 70cm repeater has to prove to the regulator that the "Unprotected" Automobile Key Fobs will not suffer "interference" (overload) from the repeater. Embedded (implanted) radio devices for medical applications is set to become a boom industry in the coming years. While the current FCC proposal relate to one particular application it is inevitable that once granted the frequencies will in coming years be used for a wide variety of other medical devices. Irrespective of what may be said now the health care needs of citizens (voters) will take precedance over Ham Radio operations. If these devices end up in Ham Radio allocations then we will in time be forced out. 73 Trevor M5AKA --- On Wed, 15/4/09, Graham Shirville <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Graham Shirville <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [amsat-florida] Re: FCC 70cm Proposal > To: "Louis McFadin" <w5did(a)mac.com> > Cc: amsat-florida(a)amsat.org, amsat-bb(a)amsat.org > Date: Wednesday, 15 April, 2009, 5:27 PM > Hi Lou, > > Yes I agree we should never relax! > > Thanks for reminding me of the fact:) > > 73 > > Graham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Louis McFadin" <w5did(a)mac.com> > To: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> > Cc: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com>; > <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; > > <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: [amsat-florida] Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm > Proposal > > > >I don't believe relaxing is a good idea. Constant > vigilance by all is the > >mantra to have. I am worried about getting sued for > causing someone to > >have some reaction to my 70CM signal I send up to AO51 > or other satellite > >or talking to the local repeater. Someone who I > have no knowledge of. > > We should ask them to stay away from the 70 cm ham > band. 400Mhz is OK as > > long as they can accept signals from 420 + without > harm. > > > > I would think something that has health consequences > would receive a lot > > of careful safety analysis before being made > operational. > > > > On Apr 15, 2009, at 4:28 AM, Graham Shirville wrote: > > > >> A further check with an expert gives me this > response: > >> > >> "No protection at all - at least in Europe. Short > Range Devices must not > >> cause interference and must suffer any > interference they receive. Ofcom > >> don't like that, but it's in the Short range > Device Directive. Not that > >> Ofcom pay any attention to it if they can avoid > doing so. Even Part 95 > >> MICS > >> devcies in the US get no protection, and that > applies every where else, > >> too." > >> > >> so perhaps we can relax? > >> > >> cheers > >> > >> Graham > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> > >> To: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com>; > <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; > >> <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:38 AM > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > >> > >> > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> From another group I read that the maximum > power radiated outside the > >>> body > >>> will be around -30 to -40dBm, so not much > chance of these systems being > >>> a > >>> problem to us. > >>> > >>> But of course if they expect "protection" from > our signals.... > >>> > >>> 73 > >>> > >>> Graham > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com> > >>> To: <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; > <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > >>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:18 PM > >>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > >>> > >>> > >>>> This is interesting.... N4ZQ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> FCC Proposes to Allocate 20 MHz of > Spectrum in 413-456 MHz Band For > >>>> Implanted Neuromuscular Devices > >>>> > >>>> The FCC has released a Notice of Proposed > Rulemaking (NPRM - ET Docket > >>>> 09-36) seeking comment on a proposal to > allocate 20 MHz of spectrum in > >>>> the 413-457 MHz band for use by wireless > medical devices that could be > >>>> implanted into the human body and used to > restore sensation and > >>>> mobility to paralyzed limbs and > organs. The devices would act as a > >>>> wireless medical micro-power network (MMN) > within the patient. Among > >>>> the conditions that could be treatable > using MMNs include polio, ALS > >>>> (Lou Gehrig's disease), cerebral palsy, > and spinal cord injuries. > >>>> > >>>> The 400 MHz band is targeted because it is > optimal for RF propagation > >>>> through body tissue. The > devices would require at least 5 MHz of > >>>> bandwidth to function and would operate on > a low power, secondary non- > >>>> interference basis. Twenty MHz of > spectrum in four band segments are > >>>> proposed so that the device would have > four options in case one band > >>>> segment was already in use in a given > area. The NPRM seeks comment on > >>>> the feasibility of four different band > segments: > >>>> > >>>> * 413-419 MHz > >>>> > >>>> * 426-432 MHz > >>>> > >>>> * 438-444 MHz > >>>> > >>>> * 451-457 MHz > >>>> > >>>> Comment is also sought on: > >>>> > >>>> * Potential for interference between MMNs > and incumbent users > >>>> > >>>> * Service rules (licensed or unlicensed, > definitions, permissible > >>>> communications, eligibility, etc.) > >>>> > >>>> * Technical rules (power limitations, > bandwidth, frequency stability, > >>>> channelization, antenna locations, etc.) > >>>> > >>>> The text of the News Release is available > at: > >>>> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-289482A1.doc > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ____________________________________________________________ > >>>> Learning Centers - Click Here. > >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXVv0gKYPqCr8IkCaCq5KA… > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the > >>>> author. > >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to > support the amateur satellite > >>>> program! > >>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Via the AMSAT-Florida mailing list courtesy of > AMSAT-NA > >> AMSAT-Florida(a)amsat.org > >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-florida > > > > > > > > Lou McFadin > > W5DID > > w5did(a)mac.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal
by Graham Shirville 15 Apr '09

15 Apr '09

A further check with an expert gives me this response: "No protection at all - at least in Europe. Short Range Devices must not cause interference and must suffer any interference they receive. Ofcom don't like that, but it's in the Short range Device Directive. Not that Ofcom pay any attention to it if they can avoid doing so. Even Part 95 MICS devcies in the US get no protection, and that applies every where else, too." so perhaps we can relax? cheers Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville(a)btinternet.com> To: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com>; <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > Hi All, > > From another group I read that the maximum power radiated outside the body > will be around -30 to -40dBm, so not much chance of these systems being a > problem to us. > > But of course if they expect "protection" from our signals.... > > 73 > > Graham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith N4ZQ" <n4zq(a)netzero.com> > To: <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org>; <amsat-florida(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:18 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] FCC 70cm Proposal > > >> This is interesting.... N4ZQ >> >> >> >> FCC Proposes to Allocate 20 MHz of Spectrum in 413-456 MHz Band For >> Implanted Neuromuscular Devices >> >> The FCC has released a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM - ET Docket >> 09-36) seeking comment on a proposal to allocate 20 MHz of spectrum in >> the 413-457 MHz band for use by wireless medical devices that could be >> implanted into the human body and used to restore sensation and >> mobility to paralyzed limbs and organs. The devices would act as a >> wireless medical micro-power network (MMN) within the patient. Among >> the conditions that could be treatable using MMNs include polio, ALS >> (Lou Gehrig's disease), cerebral palsy, and spinal cord injuries. >> >> The 400 MHz band is targeted because it is optimal for RF propagation >> through body tissue. The devices would require at least 5 MHz of >> bandwidth to function and would operate on a low power, secondary non- >> interference basis. Twenty MHz of spectrum in four band segments are >> proposed so that the device would have four options in case one band >> segment was already in use in a given area. The NPRM seeks comment on >> the feasibility of four different band segments: >> >> * 413-419 MHz >> >> * 426-432 MHz >> >> * 438-444 MHz >> >> * 451-457 MHz >> >> Comment is also sought on: >> >> * Potential for interference between MMNs and incumbent users >> >> * Service rules (licensed or unlicensed, definitions, permissible >> communications, eligibility, etc.) >> >> * Technical rules (power limitations, bandwidth, frequency stability, >> channelization, antenna locations, etc.) >> >> The text of the News Release is available at: >> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-289482A1.doc >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Learning Centers - Click Here. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXVv0gKYPqCr8IkCaCq5KA… >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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