July 2009 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

AO-7???
by w7lrd＠comcast.net 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Hello To all you AO-7 fans. We appear to have a sick bird. We should feel blessed in having such a well performing satellite for several years, considering it is older than some of it's users. The audio is distorted and cw sounds bad, running absolute minimum power. Any thoughts or suggestions are solicited. 73 Bob W7LRD Seattle

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QUIETING in Echo-51 sat? !!
by Nader Omer 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Hi All My 1st Questions is - What the reason of QUIETING in Echo-51 sat? Google gave me a good link of k0nr http://www.k0nr.com/rwitte/fmvhf.html k0nr wrote SIGNAL REPORTS FM signal reports are often given in terms of receiver quieting. A strong signal will fully quiet an FM receiver, while a weak one will be quite noisy. A "Full quieting" report is given to a signal which exhibits no background noise or hiss. Signal reports are often given in terms of "percent quieting" to give the transmitting station a better idea of the signal quality. Remember that when using a repeater there are two communication paths at work -- the path from the transmitting station to the repeater and the path from the repeater to the receiving station. Either one of these paths can exhibit noise due to a weak signal. If the receiving station has a strong S-meter indication but the transmitting station sounds noisy, the transmitting station is probably weak into the repeater. Remember that the signal strength indicated by your S meter is due to the repeater and not the transmitting station. A frequency modulated transmitter used on the VHF/UHF amateur bands should be set for a maximum frequency deviation of 5 kHz with full modulation. Unlike SSB transmitters, the signal strength of an FM signal is independent of modulation level. That is, a dead carrier produces just as much power as a fully-modulated signal. Excessive modulation of an FM transmitter does not improve the reception of the signal and often degrades it. On the other hand, inadequate FM deviation causes weak received audio. The level of audio heard on the receive end is relatively independent of received signal strength. This means that changing transmitter power does not affect the loudness of the audio at the receive end. What I have understood ………………………………………………. (FM signal reports are often given in terms of receiver quieting A strong signal will fully quiet an FM receiver) strong signal (from TX station or sat ) Quieting at receiver side (e.g. ground station) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A dead carrier produces just as much power as a fully-modulated signal PTT on!!! waste of power??? My 2nd Question is Why dose Echo-51 keep pump dead carrier that detected at ground station as quietness? 73's Nader, st2nh www.st2nh.com

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Re: Richard Garriott on BBC Newsnight tonight
by Jim Jerzycke 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Oh? Works fine here in California.... Jim KQ6EA --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel(a)ngunn.net> wrote: From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel(a)ngunn.net> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Richard Garriott on BBC Newsnight tonight To: m5aka(a)yahoo.co.uk Cc: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:52 PM But only if youre ISP is in Britain. m5aka(a)yahoo.co.uk wrote: > The video interviews with Helen Sharman GB1MIR and Richard Garriot W5KWQ can be seen at > > Honour given to 'UK astronauts' > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8133056.stm > > 73 Trevor M5AKA > Daily Amateur Radio News: http://www.southgatearc.org/ _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM
by MM 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Yes Exactly! We need to form a proposal team that can evaluate the data to find out if an EME-Repeater is viable. Time is short. First ask Experts if building a transponder for the Moon is feasible with current technology. If it were, How many Amateur radio operators would be able to afford such a project? We know the are hundreds of Hams, which have used EME at one time, or another. If we build a working transponder, how many more hams would have access to and EME-Repeater? Based on the number of users that could build an EME-Repeater link, we would go ahead with the idea and take it to the next phase. There no sense in building an EME-Repeater project if only a hundred people would be able to access the EME-Repeater. So if the project looks feasible and there is a big enough potential group of Amateur Radio stations that would uses such a project, then we would start talking to all of our contacts at NASA, ESA, RSA to see if we can get some additional support to help with the project. Thanks Miles --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Armando Mercado <am25544(a)triton.net> wrote: > From: Armando Mercado <am25544(a)triton.net> > Subject: [amsat-bb] ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? > To: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 2:48 PM > Greetings, > > The International Lunar Network appears > to be the unmanned landers NASA is planning > to put on the moon. The program is working to > put 2 landers on the moon in the 2012-2014 > time frame. > > Here are some excerpts from a Request for > Information by NASA regarding instruments > for its International Lunar Network (ILN). > Pay special note to the mass and power > limits. > > Is this what we are talking about putting a > transponder on? > > 73, Armando, N8IGJ > > ****** > > Date Released: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 > Source: Goddard Space Flight Center > NASA Solicitation: Instruments for U.S. International > Lunar Network (ILN) Lunar Missions > > > Description of Anticipated Requirement > > NASA expects to emplace the first two nodes (the "anchor" > nodes) of the ILN in the 2012-2014 timeframe with two > additional nodes to be emplaced roughly two years later, > depending on funds availability. All nodes will carry > identical core instrument payloads. The ILN mission > requires > long lived instruments which can be operated as a network > for six years (the anchor nodes will necessarily have to > last > longer). It is anticipated that a very small amount of > power > will be available to enable continuous operation through > the lunar night. > > Concept studies for the spacecraft are now under > development > at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center working with the > Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) of The Johns Hopkins > University. The mission will be tightly constrained in > both > mass and power. It is expected that the total available > mass > for all payload instruments will be approximately 15 kg, > although the precise mass available for the payload will > depend on the launch vehicle and other trades still being > considered. The total available payload power will be > approximately 15 W. > > The total budget for the ILN anchor nodes including > development and operations is $200M. Schedule and budget > constraints require that NASA mission planners focus on > relatively mature instruments. > > ****** > > See the following links for more info: > > http://www.moontoday.net/news/viewsr.html?pid=29834 > (The full Request for > Information) > > http://iln.arc.nasa.gov/welcome (General info on > ILN) > > > http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/file_download/26/ILN+Final+Report.pdf > > (Detailed info > on ILN... Note: large file 13MB) > > Happy reading, > > Armando, N8IGJ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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Re: Richard Garriott on BBC Newsnight tonight
by m5aka＠yahoo.co.uk 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

The video interviews with Helen Sharman GB1MIR and Richard Garriot W5KWQ can be seen at Honour given to 'UK astronauts' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8133056.stm 73 Trevor M5AKA Daily Amateur Radio News: http://www.southgatearc.org/ ----

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Fw: Re: Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM
by k0vty 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

I agree with John on the need for more data: Also the attached below suggests we might need to know more about any location selected on the moon. How deep the dust How rocky How illuminated and when. The differences between the poles and non poles areas. See video of moon: + The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) has released the final still images taken by the onboard High Definition Television (HDTV) from Kaguya, just before it completed its mission by impact- ing the moon on June 11, 2009. An entire series of images were taken with an interval of about one minute by the HDTV (Teltephoto) while Kaguya maneuvered its way to impact in Gill Crater. See: http://tinyurl.com/mfg32w click on the arrow in top left to navi- gate to the next photo. (via UniverseToday.com) Joe K0VTY ================== On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:08:49 -0000 "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(a)comcast.net> writes: > Hi Miles, > > Since the rest of us on this BB don't have any details about the > landers, it > would be useful if you could get a copy of any RFP (request for > proposal) > and find out how much DC power will be available for how long, how > much > weight and surface area could be allocated for the package and what > type of > experiments NASA is interested in. Then we could calculate what > could be > provided for an RF downlink to earth and how many people could use > it. > > 73, > > John > KD6OZH Clip : > ____________________________________________________________ Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTEJJpIwfNeXSdHSVRRvcHOM RvMGE9qvungwW51nQ9xtBc7W2cdAkw/

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Re: Information.
by Trevor . 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Hi John, I couldn't see any references to the Russian Federation "pulling the plug on the ISS". As I understood it they are keen to extend the lifespan of the ISS although the current agreement is that the station is burnt up in the atmosphere when the funding ends, which I believe is 2015 but hopefully may become 2020 or later. Anatoly Zak also had one of his articles published in May on the BBC website regarding the possibility of detaching the Russian modules from the ISS and adding the ball-shaped compartment with docking ports, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8064060.stm 73 Trevor M5AKA

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Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM
by MM 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

The Amateur radio community does not have the resources to build a better communication system than a professional commercial company. So we have two options, use existing lander hardware for communication or design our own stand alone transceiver project that just uses existing power and or antennas. After the lander has released the Rover, the lander “May” have some unused resources. Lets see if any of these unused resources (if any) can be used for Amateur Radio projects. How is the Lander going to be powered? Batteries only: If so, there will be no power for projects. The lander telemetry will stop after a few days. This is not a likely scenario. Solar Panels and Batteries: In this option, there may be some available power during lunar days to run other projects. This is the most sensible solution. Atomic Battery: This is the best option, however it’s politically sensitive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery The power source is one of the keys to designing a possible Amateur Radio project. Let’s ping our contacts at NASA and see what we can learn about the Moon Lander projects. Flash Back: On ISS, the Russian team proposed that we re-use navigation antennas from the FGB modules for Amateur Radio (1996). The idea worked and on the very first ISS mission we had access to an already installed antenna. It was a simple idea and it worked. Education Spin: Contributing to the project from a scientific nature may be difficult, we will have to get some universities involved, or we could focus on the educational nature of the project. Lets try to put the educational spin that School and university are communication via the Moon, with radio station designed and built by the schools. I am not saying that NASA would approve this project, but until we try we will not know. This project does not have to be an AMSAT project, we can make it a University project. Sincerely Miles WF1F --- On Mon, 7/6/09, James French <w8iss(a)wideopenwest.com> wrote: > From: James French <w8iss(a)wideopenwest.com> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM > To: "MM" <ka1rrw(a)yahoo.com> > Cc: amsat-bb(a)amsat.org, "Armando Mercado" <am25544(a)triton.net> > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:33 AM > On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 05:53 -0700, MM > wrote: > > Yes Exactly! > > > > We need to form a proposal team that can evaluate the > data to find out > > if an EME-Repeater is viable. > > > > Time is short. > > One thing, Miles. > > Frank Bauer commented: > On another topic, WRT the Lunar ILN, if you read the > solicitation, they > are discussing *15 kg* payloads. And these need to > accomplish some > scientific objective to further lunar > exploration. Given this, I do > not think the ILN is a viable AMSAT project. > > What would be the SCIENTIFIC payload that we would be > providing? > > I know that I mentioned in previous replies that we MIGHT > be able to > land a chance on something that A government would be doing > if we could > MAYBE provide a communications package for a craft. Going > by Frank's > statement and putting it into the context of what we are > planning, I > would NOT be surprised that we got turned down because we > are not prov- > iding something that contributes to the SCIENTIFIC nature > of the > mission. The government probably ALREADY has a contractor > to build and > provide the communications package(s) for these missions. > > Is there anything else that is being proposed that we can > get in on the > ground floor to provide this knowledge and equipment? I > haven't seen > anything and personally I didn't even know about the ILN > even. > > I am NOT trying to be the one to burst the bubble here. > This subject > HAS been brought up a number of times over the past four > years of putt- > ing something on the lunar surface. Each time, the answers > and suggest- > ions have gotten better as we have gotten more people that > know what it > takes climb on board the discussion. Hopefully this time > this discussion > will get past just that, discussion, and progress to an > Idea of Concept > stage that can then be taken to the next step, finding a > suitable candi- > date for this. > > James W8ISS > >

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Original 13 Colonies
by Peter 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Tim, I want to personally thank you for your efforts in making the contact and arranging the inaugural satellite 13 colonies event. I enjoyed the opportunity to represent NY as WB2OQQ/K2A and all the stations that contacted us, in Tim's words "it was a hoot", thank you. 73, Pete, WB2OQQ

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Information.
by John Hackett 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Hello Dave, Certainly, just follow the additional information from the main page of ... <http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html> Have a good day. 73 John <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> ............................................................................................ > From: n4csitwo(a)bellsouth.net > To: la2qaa(a)amsat.org > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] An alternative ... or ... competition !!!. > Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:07:08 -0400 > > Hi John, > This is very interesting. Do you know the official news source of this > information? I would like to read more about it. > > Dave, AA4KN > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hackett" <archie.hackett(a)hotmail.com> > To: <eu-amsat(a)yahoogroups.com> > Cc: <allan_gm1sxx(a)hotmail.com>; <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 6:46 AM > Subject: [amsat-bb] An alternative ... or ... competition !!!. > > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > For those that don't know it, The chief of > RosKosmos, the Russian Space Agency *confirmed* last week the Russian > intention to pull the plug on the ISS in the 2015 - 2020 timeframe and to > construct another dedicated Russian > space station. > > According to Anatoly Zak RosKosmos informed NASA of these plans 14 days ago. > > The new Russian station is *NOT* intended to be a laboratory like the ISS > but > more of an in-orbit contruction platform for future Mars-like and outer > space > missions. > > The station will comprise a maintainable 'ball' section with several docking > ports > with attachable modules. > > I propose that amateur radio satellite operators get together and form a > group to suggest/try to influence/impliment an ARISS type of project for > this space station. > > A Strela type frame could be attached to the underside of the 'ball' and > since the station is planned for a Molinya type orbit the coverage would be > suitable for DX. > > The planned orbit would put the station predominently over Russia - as > opposed to the current ISS equatorial orbit. > > Personally, I would suggest an RS-10/11 RS-12/13 clone with a ROBOT ... > (read: propagation tester) - as these satellites were without the shadow of > a > doubt the best for recruiting newcomers. > > It would, in my opinion, be a viable concept and an alternative to some of > the > latest 'ideas' of a transponder on the moon ... which wouldn't 'catch' many > potential newcomers but would (*IN MY OPINION*) only serve a few dedicated > 'experts' ... leading to the demise of amateur satellite communications in > general. > > Comments, monies and praise to LA2QAA. > > Criticisms, horsewhipping and flaming to GM1SXX. > > 73 John. <la2qaa(a)amsat.org> > > Interested parties may read the following ... > > > ................................................................................................................ > The OPSEK project > > By > 2008, the Russian successor to the International Space Station, ISS, > was identified as Orbitalniy Pilotiruemyi Eksperimentalniy Kompleks, > OPSEK, or Orbital Manned Assembly and Experiment Complex in English.* > Unlike previous designs of Mir, Mir-2 and the ISS, > the heart of the station would be a four-ton ball-shaped node module. > Equipped with six docking ports, this relatively small and simple > element would be the only permanent element of the station. All other > modules would come and go as their lifespan and mission requires. > > The initial architecture of the OPSEK complex could be built out of > modules originally planned for the Russian segment > of the ISS. The exact scenario of the OPSEK assembly would depend on > the end of the ISS and the readiness of the latest Russian modules. > According to a 2008 scenario, the MLM multipurpose module, the node module > and a pair of NEM power platforms could be first launched to the ISS in > 2011, 2013 and 2014-2015, > respectively. With the deorbiting of the ISS looming around 2020, these > modules could separate from the old outpost to form the core of the new > Russian station. Another, more controversial scenario considered the > separation of the practically entire Russian segment, including the MIM-2 > docking compartment and the Zvezda service module, > prior to the ISS deorbiting. In this case, the 20-year-old service > module would temporarily take a responsibility for the flight control > of the OPSEK, until its replacement with a 40-ton versatile core > module, UMB, launched by a next-generation rocket from yet-to-be built > launch site in Vostochny during 2020s. > > The > separation of the Russian segment from the ISS would leave the rest of > the outpost without effective orbital maneuvering capabilities, leaving > the European ATV spacecraft > as a likely candidate to perform the tasks of attitude control and > deorbiting. To achieve this the ATV would have to be modified to enable > its docking with the US segment of the ISS. > > Depending > on the operational orbit selected for the OPSEK, it might be necessary > to change the orbital inclination of the modules departing the ISS and > forming the new station. The lowest inclination accessible from > Vostochny is 51.7 degrees, while the ISS is orbiting the Earth with the > inclination 51.6 degrees toward the Equator. It is estimated that one > or two Progress cargo ships would be necessary to push the modules from one > inclination to another. > > From > official statements during 2008 and 2009, it is clear that the one of > the chief objectives of the OPSEK complex would be the support for > expedition to Mars. All major elements of the Martian expeditionary > complex, such as main habitation module, Mars lander and > nuclear-powered space tug would dock to the station before its > departure from the low-Earth orbit toward Mars. The Martian expedition > would at the OPSEK as well. > > The station would also play a similar role in lunar exploration. > Reusable space tugs could link OPSEK with the Lunar Orbital Station, LOS, in > orbit around the Moon, thus creating a transport chain for a permanent lunar > base. Such tasks as servicing of modular satellites by orbital tugs based > at the OPSEK complex were also cited. > > In > broader terms, TsNIIMash research institute, a chief strategist of the > Russian space agency, formulated the OPSEK concept as a foundation of > the nation's space strategy. By 2009, the new station was seen as a > cornerstone of a new space exploration plan, which extended four > decades into the 21st century. An ambitious program apparently included > manned missions to the Moon, Mars and beyond. (344) > > Cooperation with Europe and the US > > In > 2008, Russian plans for maintaining presence in the low-Earth orbit in > general and the creation of a successor to the ISS in particular had > been met enthusiastically in Europe. As ESA had little hope to match > the US effort to return to the Moon at the beginning of the 21st century, > preserving a destination in the low-Earth orbit seemed critical for the > political support of the manned space flight on the continent. > > In > June 2009, Simonetta Di Pippo, ESA director of human space flight told > the editor of RussianSpaceWeb.com that she shared the Russian vision of > the future space station as a platform for deep space missions. "I have > continuous consultations with officials in Russia. We meet every month, > month and a half, and now > we are going to start jointly, the study how to proceed beyond 2025, Di > Pippo said, ..."and we have a common idea that we would like to > preserve presence in the lower orbit. We are studying different > scenarios, whether we need permanent presence or, maybe, a human-tended > capability, and we can end up with a totally different solution in the > end, but I don’t believe we can leave Earth orbit." > > Di Pippo also said that although current NASA plans for return to the > Moon > reserved no essential role for the station, it could change in the > future. "Even on the NASA side, they have too many different > developments (associated with the Earth orbit), including commercial > involvement, which they can not immediately give up," Di Pippo said. > > By the end of 2010, > all partners in the ISS project were expecting to agree on the > extension of the ISS lifespan from 2015 to 2020 or even 2025. Once end > of life for the ISS was decided an active planning for post-ISS manned > space flight could begin in Russia, Europe and possibly the US. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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