November 2013 - AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

Re: D STAR
by Angelo Glorioso 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Last question. Do you know for a fact that the AMBE codecs was not developed by a ham radio operator for that company??? A lot of hams are in that business. 7 3 de Angelo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" <pabutusa(a)gmail.com> > To: <AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:16 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR > > >> An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for example. >> >> Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio operators. An >> amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple conversations tacking >> place in a single SSB "channel." >> >> Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat .... but if I (or >> someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core technologies it >> can't >> be fully understood or improved upon. Which is what this hobby is suppose >> to be about. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso <n5uxt(a)hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples. >>> >>> PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" <pabutusa(a)gmail.com> >>> To: <AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM >>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR >>> >>> >>> I can do all that with my iphone .... which are the enhancements? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso <n5uxt(a)hotmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> "To help the believer " :-) >>>>> >>>>> Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it >>>>> in a long time. >>>>> >>>>> Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar?? >>>>> >>>>> Have you chatted voice and text as the same time?? >>>>> >>>>> Have you tried to surf the web with DStar. >>>>> >>>>> Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the >>>>> radio art!!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> 7 3 de Angelo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" <pabutusa(a)gmail.com> >>>>> To: <AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM >>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "To help the non beleiver.. " >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument. >>>>>> >>>>>> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way >>>>>> repeaters >>>>>> are >>>>>> ... but I digress) >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not arguing the technical merits .... but it does not enhance the >>>>>> radio >>>>>> art ... it does not promote innovation ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in .... program it or what ever >>>>>> you >>>>>> need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone .... you've >>>>>> learned >>>>>> nothing and you've given nothing back. >>>>>> >>>>>> The spectrum we use is very valuable .... if we're not generating any >>>>>> value >>>>>> for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the >>>>>> highest >>>>>> bidder. >>>>>> >>>>>> We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM, <lucleblanc6(a)videotron.ca> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote: >>>>>>> > > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the >>>>>>> > > same >>>>>>> > > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with >>>>>>> > > DSTAR >>>>>>> > > it >>>>>>> > > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much >>>>>>> > > fun, >>>>>>> > > there is something for everyone >>>>>>> > > 73,s Damon >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. >>>>>>> > Only >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell >>>>>>> to a >>>>>>> handful of approved radio manufacturers. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the >>>>>>> > AMBE >>>>>>> codec from DVSI. That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the > >>>>>>> author. >>>>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>>>>>> program! >>>>>>> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To help the non beleiver.. just read this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eham.net/articles/30174 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one >>>>>>> choose >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something >>>>>>> has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who >>>>>>> wants >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication >>>>>>> protocol available. Yes some will say DMR, MotoTRBO are better it's >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> to say competition is already present. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The cost question. >>>>>>> You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> 700$ >>>>>>> and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just >>>>>>> an example and i'm not connected to their business. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters- >>>>>>> --for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1& >>>>>>> ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+ >>>>>>> you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham >>>>>>> radio >>>>>>> no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> be able to reach me all over the globe. If you don't like the >>>>>>> internet component you better to go back to the cave man, or you >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> live on my planet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just let folks live free... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE >>>>>>> WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>>>>>> author. >>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>>>>>> program! >>>>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>>>>> author. >>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>>>>> program! >>>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>>> author. >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>>> program! >>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >

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H.E.O.
by Burns Fisher 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Hi Keith, Just so you know, HEO is probably the most contentious issue around (next to FM vs Linear). I think it is fair to say that EVERYONE would love to have an HEO bird, but it's hard-to-impossible to find a launch for free or cheap. As Domenico said, the German AMSAT (AMSAT-DL) has an HEO bird ready to fly, but they are still looking for launch opportunities, and have been for a while now. AMSAT-NA is currently focusing on LEO cubesats (and we already have commitments for two launches). The first launches will be FM satellites. The future may hold software defined radios which we could program for any modulation type. About rotators etc: It depends. Some satellites (generally FM) are available from some handhelds with just a whip, but that is kind of iffy. Much better to have a handheld antenna with some gain, which is what I think Domenico was aluding to. I'm a fan of baby steps. First try to listen with an HT (handheld). Maybe you can transmit to the satellite, maybe not, since FM only allows a single user at a time. Then try a handheld satellite antenna (Eagle for example...look in the AMSAT store). If you already have a fixed base station, try it with an omni (e.g. an eggbeater or something). You might spend your money on a pre-amp next before a rotator. The short answer probably is that a nice directional antenna on a rotator with a good preamp is probably best if your goal is to talk via satellite and get the strongest signal for the longest time. But starting small, you learn a lot. Using a handheld is kind of cool because you can think to yourself "I'm pointing this thing at a satellite...there is NOTHING between me and this cool piece of machinery in space". BTW, I can say all this, but I have to admit that I have not yet been terribly successful transmitting. I can receive very well...even SO50 (1/4 watt) comes in reasonably well on my HT with a rubber ducky and no preamp (when it is high in the sky). But I think I only just managed get into SO-50 pretty recently. I think my problem is 1) Omni antenna, not beam and 2) Not a terribly good location. Hope this helps... 73, Burns, W2BFJ Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:21:12 +0100 > From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(a)tin.it> > To: "Keith Crittenden" <Keithcrittenden(a)eircom.net>, "Amsat - BBs" > <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: H.E.O.? > Message-ID: <002801cedfdc$59f12c60$0401a8c0@b3o7f1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Keith > > Only God know if and when a HEO Amateur Satellite will be placed in orbit > by > AMSAT. > > AMSAT-DL is working around P3E wich is a satellite similar to OSCAR-13 > using all modes from the VHF to Microwave but there are no money sufficient > to pay for the launch at the moment. > > About to work the actual operational satellites the extra expences of > buying a rotator /elevator is recommended while starting the activity you > can use a more simple low cost yagi antenna for 2 m and 70 cm manually > aimed toward the satellite. > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith Crittenden" <Keithcrittenden(a)eircom.net> > To: <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:43 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] H.E.O.? > > > > Hi, > > > > Two Questions from a newbie; > > > > I'm interested to know if there are any plans to put a H.E.O. amateur > satellite into orbit in the near future, and if so does anyone have an idea > as to what mode it would be likely to work in? > > > > And, (second question) as I'm in the process of setting up a station > (pretty much from scratch) for the purpose of working satellites I'm > wondering if it's considered worth the extra expense of buying a rotator > /elevator or just a rotator. > > > > All knowledgeable opinions would be appreciated. > > > > Keith. >

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Minotaur-1 mass CubeSat launch November 19
by M5AKA 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

The launch window for KySat-2 and over a dozen other CubeSats from Wallops Island opens November 19, see http://amsat-uk.org/2013/11/12/kysat-2-in-november-cubesat-launch/ Also on the AMSAT-UK site: Ham Radio Balloon on 7, 10 and 14 MHz http://amsat-uk.org/2013/11/12/ham-radio-balloon-on-7-10-and-14-mhz/ FUNcube-1 Handbook now in Italian http://amsat-uk.org/2013/11/12/funcube-1-handbook-now-in-italian/ ---- 73 Trevor M5AKA AMSAT-UK website http://amsat-uk.org/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/AMSAT-UK/208113275898396 Twitter https://twitter.com/AMSAT_UK ----

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Re: D STAR
by Gregg Wonderly 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

What is most important to consider is that there is only one choice, because of the investment and low return there is because HAM radio operators don't want to spend money. Yet, we buy antennas (isn't there only one source for patented antenna designs that we flock to?), coax, power systems and lots of other things which are largely single sourced by manufacturers that do a great job creating a valuable product. Ultimately, that is the decision to make. Is the money for the product the right value to pay? If you really believe you can't get a chip, I think you are mistaken. Can you get the cheap price in single quantities? No. But, they are available last I had heard. At this point, we are moving into the world of "software" components. These are things such as micro-controllers, DSPs and Codecs which are all put together to create a useful RF based device. In the end, SDR is what we actually need to be focused on. That would allow everyone to "write their own radio" and expand our capabilities with "digitial" emissions well beyond where we are at now. The future is automatic frequency selection, varied modulation techniques combined with embedded FEC to create an instantaneous solution to interference problems. Gregg Wonderly W5GGW On 11/11/2013 9:22 AM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote: >> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same >> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it >> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, >> there is something for everyone >> 73,s Damon > > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. Only one > manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to > a handful of approved radio manufacturers. > > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec > from DVSI. That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio. > > -- > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >

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H.E.O.?
by Keith Crittenden 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Hi, Two Questions from a newbie; I'm interested to know if there are any plans to put a H.E.O. amateur satellite into orbit in the near future, and if so does anyone have an idea as to what mode it would be likely to work in? And, (second question) as I'm in the process of setting up a station (pretty much from scratch) for the purpose of working satellites I'm wondering if it's considered worth the extra expense of buying a rotator /elevator or just a rotator. All knowledgeable opinions would be appreciated. Keith.

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Funcube Handbook - Italian
by richard limebear 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Guys The handbook has been translated into Italian by Pierluigi IW4BIG. It is now on some of the FUNcube websites, hopefully it will be on the main funcube.org website shortly 73 Richard G3RWL

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Re: D STAR - try freeDV instead
by Ross Whenmouth 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Hi, Rather than trying to get a D-Star radio to QSY in less than 5 kHz steps, you could try freeDV with your existing SSB transceivers? D-Star occupies 6.25 kHz bandwidth on the transponder, but freeDV only needs 1.25 kHz (half of a normal SSB voice emission). You can get freeDV (experimental) software here: http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php Unlike the early days of SSB (which has been the subject of various patents) AMBE is unlikely to ever be free, even after the patents expire as DVSI Inc. treats AMBE as a TRADE SECRET, and the only way to get the codec is to buy the chip (a locked TI DSP pre-loaded with AMBE). DVSI's patents cover some of the technology used in AMBE, but these patents do not explain enough about the AMBE process or protocol for someone to write their own AMBE-compatible codec. Once the patents expire, someone with the right resources might be able to hardware reverse engineer the firmware in the AMBE chip (very difficult!) and write a specification of the AMBE process/protocol, which someone else who has never seen inside the AMBE firmware can then use to write a "clean room" AMBE compatible codec. Depending on the laws in force at the time, it might also be illegal to de-bond the AMBE chip and reverse engineer the codec therein. However, all this is probably requires far more effort than it is worth - better to spend time, energy and money on developing an alternate codec that is truly "open". FreeDV uses an OFDM modem (16 QPSK carriers + 1 BPSK pilot), designed to have strong resistance to the multi-path propagation typical on the HF bands that it was originally intended to be used on. However, this means that is has a ~ 12dB peak to average power ratio, which imposes linearity requirements on the transmit signal path. For satellite operation, where path loss is a much greater concern than multi-path, the use of a serial tone modem (single carrier QPSK, BPSK, GMSK, etc) for freeDV would reduce the linearity requirements of the transmit signal path making it easier for an otherwise marginal ground station to produce enough EIRP to work the bird. 73's ZL2WRW Ross Whenmouth

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FUNcube-1 Project Update
by Graham Shirville 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

Hi All, Our software team is working feverishly to complete the FUNcube Dashboard software that we will be using to decode and display the telemetry that will be transmitted from the spacecraft on 145.935 MHz. Whilst they finish their work here are some provisional pre-launch keps. We may well receive an updated set nearer to the day of launch but we expect that these should be good enough for the first few hours/days after launch. Satellite: FUNCUBE-1 Catalog number: 99991 Epoch time: 13325.309563080 Element set: 1 Inclination: 97.7956 deg RA of node: 38.2570 deg Eccentricity: 0.0059925 Arg of perigee: 198.5190 deg Mean anomaly: 336.5388 deg Mean motion: 14.77841394 rev/day Decay rate: 0.00000106 Epoch rev: 1 The particular method of deployment used by this Dnepr launch vehicle means that the dispersion of all the objects may be somewhat more rapid than we are commonly used to, so this may help the experts determine which object is which. FUNcube-1 will initially be transmitting only about 30 mW of output power, this is its "Safe Mode", so a steerable yagi will greatly help reception. When the spacecraft is eventually transmitting data in its normal "Educational Mode" the signal is expected to be about 10dB louder. To stay up-to-date with what has happening with the FUNcube project and, in particular, with the FUNcube-1 spacecraft please visit www.funcube.org.uk You can register for automatic email notifications of all the updates by clicking on the "follow this blog" tab towards the bottom right hand corner of the front page. best 73 Graham G3VZV

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Hawaii to VK/ZL qso?
by Tom Worthington 10 Nov '13

10 Nov '13

I occasionally have passes where I can copy myself when the footprint of either FO-29 or A-07 shows some coverage to extreme North East Australia and the North Island of New Zealand, but I've never heard any signals from there. Are there any operators who would like to try a QSO? 73 and Aloha de Tom, NH6Y

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AO27 status
by w4upd 10 Nov '13

10 Nov '13

Heard AO27 a couple of times. Both yesterday and today. Today I heard it around 18:10 UTC. The telemetry was good and strong. Hopefully they can get this old girl working again as well. It was a nice FM satellite after the demise of AO51. Reid, W4UPD

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