- AMSAT-BB - mailman.amsat.org

ARISS funding
by Zach Metzinger 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote: > Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please > consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for > Students program funded. > > A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging > equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio > community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from > AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers. Frank- I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've changed the thread title. Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data: https://www.amsat.org/status/ Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used": https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/ It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365 like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day or night? If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut happens to be there, I can't see myself donating. How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS? 73, --- Zach N0ZGO

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Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
by Daniel Schultz 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

The main advantage of Amateur Radio in a disaster situation is our ability to communicate without any commercial infrastructure. How long would it have taken to set up an "aggregator" in Puerto Rico after the hurricane? Can it get in there faster than the Verizon truck with 3 meter dish and cell tower can get there? How many "aggregators" will there be in the world? How hard will it be for radio clubs to get licensed to operate an "aggregator" uplink station? Using commercial infrastructure to link local ham radio access points is basically what EchoLink is all about. Meanwhile our friends in Europe are experiencing a renaissance in amateur radio with their new geosat. I'm not saying that we wouldn't learn something from utilizing commercial geosats, but it seems we should be looking for ways to preserve our amateur satellite spectrum before the commercial world takes it away and then offers to rent it back to us. 73, Dan N8FGV

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Disaster
by Scott Millick 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

What happens ift he disaster is the communications sats are destroyed. Then what Scott k9SM

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Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (emergency messaging)
by Robert Bruninga 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

We just looked at the 6 APRS active LEO satellites and about half the time, you are no more than 30 minutes from a next pass, 75% of the time you are less than 60 minutes to the next pass and 93% of the time your next pass is within 90 minutes as shown in the plot on the APRS live downlink pages: http://aprs.org/sats.html Though, admittedly the page is now showing ISS has not been heard in 10 days and PCSAT is only surviving about 1 minute per pass, and PSAT is about to come in to good sun in a week or so. But the idea is that if we just add APRS digipeaters on more birds, we can approach near continuous coverage for texting and emailing form an HT anywhere on earth (at reasonable latitudes),... Something to keep in the quiver for disaster and emergency messaging from remote areas. Bob, WB4aPR -----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces(a)amsat.org> On Behalf Of Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:43 AM To: David Swanson <dave(a)druidnetworks.com> Cc: &lt,amsat-bb(a)amsat.org&gt, <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US The idea originally came from FEMA and ARRL. It has been presented at Symposium at least twice. As a former EMT, I have used a variety emergency communications equipment for drills and duty. I got all the ICS certifications and listened to lots and lots of schemes, proposals, and marketing from all the usual suspects, went to classes for CEUs where strange things were recommended that would never work, and did things that were essentially hacks with equipment that should have been retired before I was born. My views on emcomm are conservative and largely immaterial. If FEMA is interested in this, then finding out if it works is worth my time. No AMSAT resources (e.g. money) are being asked for or are needed for this. It can only help AMSAT if it works, but if it doesn't, there's no harm done to the club. We're supposed to experiment and advance the radio arts. We need to understand what it means to rent transponder space. When companies that are motivated to support amateur radio step up and do, the least we can do is listen, weigh, consider, and take them up on it if it looks like it would result in something positive. I believe this is one of those opportunities, and I'm willing to do the due diligence and see how far we can get. In short, It is both/and, not either/or. -Michelle W5NYV On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 8:22 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: > The 'last mile' segment in this proposal is amateur spectrum yes, but > that segment could also very easily be commercial or public safety > spectrum as well. Heck, with a meg of bandwidth at 10g+ on your > 'backbone' you could very easily establish a somewhat respectable > packet link and then just have your "Aggregator" be nothing more than > a wifi hotspot, which opens up all sorts of communication applications > beyond simple push button HTs. If you're truly looking at this from an > EMCOMM perspective, then the primary goal of the ESF-2 annex is > 'communications infrastructure restoration' - which is ranked higher > than 'tactical communications' anyway. Why screw with sending people > with their HT's out to act as relays, when a pelican case with a dish > and a Linksys can get everyone back on the net in 5 minutes? > > Therefore, I'm confused on why this is being brought up here other > than solicitation by folks who wear multiple hats. There is precisely > zero benefit to AMSAT or ARRL getting involved, and committing their > scarce resources to a project that won't benefit amateurs. No contact > made thru this proposed method will be a valid 'qso' for folks > interested in that sort of thing. No expertise or engineering will be required of the 'users' > of the system, other than to tune their device to whatever frequency > the Aggregator builders require of them. The only folks that would > benefit from such a proposal are the aggregator builders themselves, > and possibly the public - and I say possibly because commercial > systems like your proposal already exist and are in common use by > organizations that respond to disasters. For 60 bucks a week I can > rent a basic Inmarsat turn key solution, take it anywhere on the > planet, and let any of the workers I'm supporting send and receive > emails while I do something productive towards saving lives instead of mashing my PTT button 23 hours a day. > > The idea is cool, but only from the perspective of the people getting > to build it. For those us who've actually been in the shit trying to > help re-establish comms after a real disaster, we've all learned once > the cell phones and internet comes back online, no one gives a crap > about our radios. The moment the Verizon truck rolls up with the 3m > dish and portable tower trailer, our work is done. The *real* use for > Ham in disasters these days is the basic idea that our gear can > establish communications without some sort of proprietary > middle-hardware needed. Don't believe me? I'd be happy to send you my > graduate research paper on DPEM Applications of Geo-Synchronous > Satellites I did a few years back. There are applications for our > hobby in disasters, find some spectrum to rent on a Geo-bird that I > (or some ham in the mountains of western Puerto Rico) can use directly > and I'll be the first one to donate. Until then, for 24k a year AMSAT > could probably launch another pair of Fox's that would be *actual* amateur satellites. > > -Dave, KG5CCI > > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 8:13 AM KC9SGV via AMSAT-BB > <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> > wrote: > > > Grrrr.. > > Replies to the list via email with pictures attached get wiped ! > > We need a modern BB or forum like AMSAT-DL.... > > > > Here goes to the BB list again without pictures: > > > > We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into > > Echolink nodes. > > The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite. > > Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF > > distance constraints. > > Still an Emcomm use here. > > > > Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go > > into the aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or > > even use Skype, like in the early days of remote HF station use. > > Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free > > RCForb remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com A > > R&D use here. > > > > KC9SGV > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On Aug 22, 2019, at 7:01 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into > > > Echolink > > nodes. > > > The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the > satellite. > > > Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF > > distance constraints. > > > Still an Emcomm use here. > > > > > > Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go > > > into > > the aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use > Skype, > > like in the early days of remote HF station use. > > > Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free > > > RCForb > > remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com > > > A R&D use here. > > > Like this : > > > <image1.PNG> > > > > > > > > > Bernard, > > > KC9SGV > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > >> On Aug 22, 2019, at 6:25 AM, John Kludt via AMSAT-BB < > > amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> Ev, > > >> > > >> But the aggregator can't uplink directly to the satellite as the > uplink > > is outside of the amateur bands. So the aggregator must send > > everything > to > > an earth station with a commercial license, correct? > > >> > > >> Would the aggregator be single channel or work more like a linear > > transponder sending along multiple signals in mixed modes at once? > > >> > > >> Unless I am wrong, the aggregator must be colocated with the > commercial > > earth station or we are back into Internet required land thereby > decreasing > > the encomm utility of this effort. > > >> > > >> Sancho > > >> > > >> Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone > > >>> On Aug 21, 2019 22:34, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB > > >>> <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi Michelle, > > >>> What a fascinating opportunity. I'd like to try to describe > > >>> this > > using different words to see if I get it. > > >>> Echostar 9 is a geosynchronous satellite with 1 MHz of spectrum > > >>> to > > sell. > > >>> Both the up and down frequencies are outside of the amateur bands. > > >>> To use it, an aggregator is needed. An aggregator is a "bridge" > > device that converts amateur-band RF to satellite uplink RF and > > setellite downlink RF to amateur-band RF. > > >>> Amateurs simply need to be in range of an aggregator. It is the > > aggregators responsibility to remain aimed at the satellite. > > >>> > > >>> The aggregator determines if it will bridge FM or Linear (SSB, > > >>> CW, > > PSK31, etc.) modes. > > >>> Is this right? > > >>> Regards,Ev, W2EV > > >>> > > >>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 9:38:12 PM EDT, Michelle > > >>> Thompson > > via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 > > >>> years > of > > >>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month. > > >>> > > >>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others > > >>> to > > pay for > > >>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. > I > > >>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm > > willing to > > >>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing > > >>> needs > to > > >>> happen to secure a grant for rental. > > >>> > > >>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field > > deployment > > >>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP > > >>> (Amateur > > Radio > > >>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM > > >>> or > > analog > > >>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then > > >>> sent > > to a > > >>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot > > >>> of interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground > > >>> needs an > > ARAP in > > >>> order to support legacy radios. > > >>> > > >>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. > > >>> The aggregator equipment does that part for you. > > >>> > > >>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. > A > > >>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, > > motivated > > >>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it > > >>> hears > is > > >>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint. > > >>> > > >>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable > > >>> by individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be > > >>> repeated over > > the > > >>> internet. > > >>> > > >>> What does this get us? > > >>> > > >>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some > > experience > > >>> with uplinks. > > >>> > > >>> What do we not have? > > >>> > > >>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink > yourself, > > or > > >>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor. > > >>> > > >>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal. > > >>> > > >>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, > > >>> deploy, > > test, > > >>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about > > >>> GEO > > comms and > > >>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs. > > >>> > > >>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged. > > >>> > > >>> More soon! > > >>> -Michelle W5NYV > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > available > > >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > > Opinions expressed > > >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official > > >>> views > > of AMSAT-NA. > > >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > > >>> satellite > > program! > > >>> Subscription settings: > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > available > > >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > > Opinions expressed > > >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official > > >>> views > > of AMSAT-NA. > > >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > > >>> satellite > > program! > > >>> Subscription settings: > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > > >> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > > Opinions expressed > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official > > >> views > > of AMSAT-NA. > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > > program! > > >> Subscription settings: > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > _______________________________________________ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > > available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > Opinions > > expressed > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official > > views of AMSAT-NA. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > program! > > Subscription settings: > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect > the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
by KC9SGV 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

Grrrr.. Replies to the list via email with pictures attached get wiped ! We need a modern BB or forum like AMSAT-DL.... Here goes to the BB list again without pictures: We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into Echolink nodes. The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite. Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF distance constraints. Still an Emcomm use here. Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go into the aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use Skype, like in the early days of remote HF station use. Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free RCForb remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com A R&D use here. KC9SGV Sent from my iPad > On Aug 22, 2019, at 7:01 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into Echolink nodes. > The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite. > Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF distance constraints. > Still an Emcomm use here. > > Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go into the aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use Skype, like in the early days of remote HF station use. > Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free RCForb remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com > A R&D use here. > Like this : > <image1.PNG> > > > Bernard, > KC9SGV > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Aug 22, 2019, at 6:25 AM, John Kludt via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: >> >> Ev, >> >> But the aggregator can't uplink directly to the satellite as the uplink is outside of the amateur bands. So the aggregator must send everything to an earth station with a commercial license, correct? >> >> Would the aggregator be single channel or work more like a linear transponder sending along multiple signals in mixed modes at once? >> >> Unless I am wrong, the aggregator must be colocated with the commercial earth station or we are back into Internet required land thereby decreasing the encomm utility of this effort. >> >> Sancho >> >> Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone >>> On Aug 21, 2019 22:34, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Michelle, >>> What a fascinating opportunity. I'd like to try to describe this using different words to see if I get it. >>> Echostar 9 is a geosynchronous satellite with 1 MHz of spectrum to sell. >>> Both the up and down frequencies are outside of the amateur bands. >>> To use it, an aggregator is needed. An aggregator is a "bridge" device that converts amateur-band RF to satellite uplink RF and setellite downlink RF to amateur-band RF. >>> Amateurs simply need to be in range of an aggregator. It is the aggregators responsibility to remain aimed at the satellite. >>> >>> The aggregator determines if it will bridge FM or Linear (SSB, CW, PSK31, etc.) modes. >>> Is this right? >>> Regards,Ev, W2EV >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 9:38:12 PM EDT, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: >>> >>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of >>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month. >>> >>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for >>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I >>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to >>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to >>> happen to secure a grant for rental. >>> >>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment >>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio >>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog >>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a >>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of >>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in >>> order to support legacy radios. >>> >>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The >>> aggregator equipment does that part for you. >>> >>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A >>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated >>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is >>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint. >>> >>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by >>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the >>> internet. >>> >>> What does this get us? >>> >>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience >>> with uplinks. >>> >>> What do we not have? >>> >>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or >>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor. >>> >>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal. >>> >>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test, >>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and >>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs. >>> >>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged. >>> >>> More soon! >>> -Michelle W5NYV >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
by Michelle Thompson 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month. I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to happen to secure a grant for rental. The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in order to support legacy radios. You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The aggregator equipment does that part for you. This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint. The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the internet. What does this get us? An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience with uplinks. What do we not have? A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor. That's where we're at with *this* proposal. I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test, and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and figure out a lot of the ins and outs. Comment and critique welcome and encouraged. More soon! -Michelle W5NYV

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Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
by Ev Tupis 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

You're asking the wrong person, Sancho (lol). I was restating Michelle's potentially very exciting opportunity using different words to see if I understood it. Let's wait on her reply. I haven't seen it yet. Ev On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 7:29:09 AM EDT, John Kludt via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: Ev, But the aggregator can't uplink directly to the satellite as the uplink is outside of the amateur bands. So the aggregator must send everything to an earth station with a commercial license, correct? Would the aggregator be single channel or work more like a linear transponder sending along multiple signals in mixed modes at once? Unless I am wrong, the aggregator must be colocated with the commercial earth station or we are back into Internet required land thereby decreasing the encomm utility of this effort. Sancho Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone On Aug 21, 2019 22:34, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > What a fascinating opportunity. I'd like to try to describe this using different words to see if I get it. > Echostar 9 is a geosynchronous satellite with 1 MHz of spectrum to sell. > Both the up and down frequencies are outside of the amateur bands. > To use it, an aggregator is needed. An aggregator is a "bridge" device that converts amateur-band RF to satellite uplink RF and setellite downlink RF to amateur-band RF. > Amateurs simply need to be in range of an aggregator. It is the aggregators responsibility to remain aimed at the satellite. > > The aggregator determines if it will bridge FM or Linear (SSB, CW, PSK31, etc.) modes. > Is this right? > Regards,Ev, W2EV > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 9:38:12 PM EDT, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> wrote: > > An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of > USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month. > > I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for > at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I > think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to > provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to > happen to secure a grant for rental. > > The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment > of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio > Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog > gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a > satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of > interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in > order to support legacy radios. > > You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The > aggregator equipment does that part for you. > > This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A > communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated > ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is > sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint. > > The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by > individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the > internet. > > What does this get us? > > An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience > with uplinks. > > What do we not have? > > A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or > you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor. > > That's where we're at with *this* proposal. > > I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test, > and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and > figure out a lot of the ins and outs. > > Comment and critique welcome and encouraged. > > More soon! > -Michelle W5NYV > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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SDR: Chaos Communication Camp 2019 talk
by Zach Metzinger 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

The Chaos Communication Camp is currently going on right now in Germany. There are many fascinating talks, including this one on SDR: https://media.ccc.de/v/Camp2019-10248-the_limits_of_general_purpose_sdr_dev… --- Zach N0ZGO

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Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
by Joe 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

Yup that's it, and it's still very busy! Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/22/2019 10:58 AM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) wrote: > Joe, > > Your referring to QO-100 the websdr can be found at > https://eshail.batc.org.uk/ > > 73, > > Peter, 2M0SQL > > On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 16:44, Joe <nss(a)mwt.net <mailto:nss@mwt.net>> > wrote: > > There is that Geo bird over Africa. > > I had the URL for a site that lets you listen to the whole bird > passband. > > When it first went up I listened to it a LOT and was amazed at all > the different modes and coverage. > > But I can't find the URL anymore. I was gonna go and listen to see > what the activity level is now like since it is much older and the > newness has worn off. > > Joe WB9SBD > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com > On 8/22/2019 10:04 AM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote: >> Hi Michelle, >> >> Excellent that they came back with the price and while the project >> sounds potentially interesting it's of course, not an amateur radio >> satellite, has anyone considered any risks for example, does this have >> the potential to raise questions when AMSAT approaches gov/orgs for >> discount launches for satellites we build that they might say that we >> could just go rent some transponder space. >> >> I know in the states disaster comms is a huge point (weirdly not >> something that's pushed in Europe), but agencies could already access >> this kind of technology just by purchasing sat phones, for example, I >> have an iridium unit that lets me make calls and access the internet >> although slowly but handy in highlands of Scotland with poor mobile >> coverage. >> >> By the sounds of this, it will be access points that then aggregate >> into a central point via probably internet backhaul then its dumped up >> to the satellite, to me that doesn't really feel within the ham >> spirit, although I'm sure tons would argue :) >> >> I know there's a big desire for GEO over North America, but do ops >> really think this is the ultimate solution? we're talking 96000 USD >> over 4 years. >> >> Think it really requires some heavy thought before just jumping on the idea. >> >> Just my thoughts, and I know I'm on the other side of the pond in the >> QO-100 footprint. >> >> Peter, 2M0SQL >> >> On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 02:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB >> <amsat-bb(a)amsat.org> <mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote: >>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of >>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month. >>> >>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for >>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I >>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to >>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to >>> happen to secure a grant for rental. >>> >>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment >>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio >>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog >>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a >>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of >>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in >>> order to support legacy radios. >>> >>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The >>> aggregator equipment does that part for you. >>> >>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A >>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated >>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is >>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint. >>> >>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by >>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the >>> internet. >>> >>> What does this get us? >>> >>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience >>> with uplinks. >>> >>> What do we not have? >>> >>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or >>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor. >>> >>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal. >>> >>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test, >>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and >>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs. >>> >>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged. >>> >>> More soon! >>> -Michelle W5NYV >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent viaAMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings:https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent viaAMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings:https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >

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apparent bogus email
by n4csitwo＠bellsouth.net 22 Aug '19

22 Aug '19

All, Please be aware of some apparent bogus email that you may receive to your amsat.org email address. An email just popped into my inbox from "amsat.org Admin." saying I have 4 pending messages ... At the bottom of the email it has ... Copyright © 2019 amsat.org, Inc. All rights reserved. We are located at 2233 S. third St., San Jose, CA 95123. I suggest you avoid opening this if you get one. Dave, AA4KN --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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